WEEI-AM 850 to become ESPN Radio

[iyiyi]

The word about this came out in early Aug but there has been no sign. Maybe later? Maybe not at all?

Labor Day has come and gone. Do they wait for the (merciful) end of the Sox season to go all
ESPN on 850? Or do they feel it's best to stay as is. Now they have 1510 as the mostly-national
competition (not that too many will listen!) I don't know if 1510's local show the Bawstin Diehards
will have EEI or Sports Hub quaking in its boots, and they prob aren't worried too much about the NBC Sports Radio programming (ooh! We have another competitor!) Supposedly they were to go all ESPN
to get a few $$ from the WorldwideLeaderInSports and supposedly most have fled to FM 93.7 (etc.)
so why not, but no indication if or when this will actually get done.

In a chat with listeners, Jason Wolfe was heard to say something like "We always have a good relationship with ESPN" when asked about the ESPN to 850 move. So...it may happen.

Perhaps.

Maybe.

If?

SOMEDAY...

FWIW: I am not certain where all this "850 to ESPN lust" is coming from or why. There is a bird fed ESPN on 1450 in Providence and 1340 New Bedford. Both (Class C) stations are capable of, and have rated in the 1s with various formats. In the several years that they've run ESPN, AFAIK neither has registered more than a 0.0 since adopting that format.

93.7, 103.7, 1440 and 105.5 are all rimshotting the Boston market (with 1440 and 105.5 way west of Boston). 850 is the only solid WEEI signal that serves the entire Boston area. Those "poorly served" areas that 850 delivers to the west of Boston's metro are amply served by 1440, 105.5 and 103.7.

Again, 850 is WEEI's "fat lady" and she's been singing sweet songs of victory for WEEI for the past 18 years. How can WEEI benefit by flipping their best Boston signal to the bird?

Also, does anyone know of any markets where ESPN radio does more than squat ratingswise? It is counter productive for Entercom and WEEI to produce yet another sports signal in this oversaturated by sport formats market. Why should WEEI compete with itself when they are ruling the format on both AM and FM?

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[raccoonradio]

>>850 is WEEI's "fat lady" and she's been singing sweet songs of victory for WEEI for the past 18 years. How can WEEI benefit by flipping their best Boston signal to the bird?

A good point. Sports Hub debuted in '09 and two years later, in Sept. of last year, WEEI finally moved to FM. A rumor came out (supposedly from someone at ESPN) that 850 would flip to all ESPN. The rumor has come back and now it's said that maybe the AM is getting miniscule ratings and maybe Entercom can make a few bucks by putting all-ESPN on there.
But again, while the various FM signals can cover a lot of territory, some areas may not get them well and the 850 can work out well for them (local shows/ Sox/ C's etc.) ESPN wants a full time affiliate. For now they're on overnights and weekends on 93.7/850, etc.

Would Entercom take a little $ for running ESPN on a fairly powerful 850, even if the ratings would be tiny?

>>93.7, 103.7, 1440 and 105.5 are all rimshotting the Boston market

It might be said that 93.7 is a rimshotter and indeed it doesn't cover the whole market.But the stick for 93.7 is maybe 15 mi. from the center of Boston and the area covered is half decent,
though of course gaps to the west and south. Sports Hub's stick is in Newton I think, maybe 7-9 mi. from the center of Boston. (radio-locator.com under a search for "Boston" says WEEI-FM's stick is 15.4 miles away, Sports Hub, 7 miles

15 miles may not be exactly right in downtown but it's not all that far away. Though true, some may still need the 850 to get it.

Similarly people wonder if RKO would go to FM. But the AM 680 signal, for all its problems with interference and the north-south direction at night, is pretty solid. Days, most people can hear
McPhee & Feinburg, Fin Exchange, Kuhner,Rush, and Howie fine. Earlier sunsets, WCRN
carries Howie. Then there's Savage, Doyle, and C2C--all of which can be found on other
stations if you can't pick up RKO, and they're focused more on daytime anyway. So any thought of "will RKO go to 97.7 or 107.3?" sounds a little
silly given that 680's signal isn't all that bad. Again WCRN helps to the west with Howie.
(Of course "people are tuning out AM" it's said. We'll see if AM's visiting hours are 2-4 and 7-9
with burial the next day... )
The thing is, _supposedly_ 850 is to flip to EEI but I'm guessing they're holding off and for
good reason. What else does ESPN do to get full coverage in town? 1510--no, they're NBC
sports. Anyone else? 1260?

The thing is ESPN does have good signals for WEEI AM/FM and the simulcast stations, for
overnights, weekends, some play by play etc. They just want people to be able to hear
them in Boston for the other shows. Not that they'll necessarily get great ratings, but would
Ent. sacrifice the 850 signal to get a few $$ for carrying ESPN 24/7?

 

[WNTIRadio]

How is WEEI-FM a "rimshot"? 9.7 miles to the WKLB, WODS, WBUR etc. transmitter sites and they're not rimshots. 12.7 miles to WEEI-FM from Boston common.

Any signal loss to the south is made up by 103.7 booming in. The entire 850 coverage area is well covered by the combo of 93.7 and 103.7. To the southeast, there's 96.3 on the Cape.

 

[raccoonradio]

Yes, maybe people still think of it as a "Lawrence" station--yes it is lic. there but the stick is in Peabody. Very close to downtown Boston. It's not like the days under Gowdy ownership when the stick was in the Merrimack Valley. And you're right, if KLB, ODS etc sticks are about 10 miles away then how are they not rimshots either?

>>12.7 miles to WEEI-FM from Boston common.
Even closer than I said (via radio-locator, and as always not totally accurate but...)

Doing google maps from Lakeland Pk Dr Peabody to Boston it says 17 mi or so, but Rt 1 (etc) may curve a few times so maybe it's more like 15 as the crow flies. True, the stick is just outside of the 128/I-95 circumferential highway loop but a good signal into Boston proper and the other stations do help it out, too.

>>Any signal loss to the south is made up by 103.7 booming in. The entire 850 coverage area is well covered by the combo of 93.7 and 103.7. To the southeast, there's 96.3 on the Cape.

Very true.

I will say I asked Mark of BRW about this. He doesn't know if/when for sure but wondered if
maybe the first day of the MLB playoffs (10/4, good buddy). If so, scenario of...?

--93.7 Mikey Adams sports talk
--850 baseball playoffs (maybe some games on 93.7)

C's preseason is in Oct right? C's games on 93.7, baseball playoffs on 850... etc

 

[iyiyi]

How is WEEI-FM a "rimshot"? 9.7 miles to the WKLB, WODS, WBUR etc. transmitter sites and they're not rimshots. 12.7 miles to WEEI-FM from Boston common.

Any signal loss to the south is made up by 103.7 booming in. The entire 850 coverage area is well covered by the combo of 93.7 and 103.7. To the southeast, there's 96.3 on the Cape.

Very simple. WKLB, WBZ-FM etc are located west of Boston. They can easily cover the entire Boston market with a city grade signal because anything farther than about 10 miles east is a big bay. I doubt PPM devices are given to the fishies. I don't think a PPM would work very well under salt water. Needham is probably the most ideal place to cover the maximum area of the Boston market. The TV stations located themselves there for SOME reason...

93.7 covers the Merrimac valley and the northern portions of the Boston market perfectly. South of 128 and the South shore, not so much. The Cape Cod station and 103.7 cannot deliver any "real" signal to those areas. The stations on the Pru may provide better building penetration but a significantly large portion of their city grade signal is expended over water. WBZ-FM et al exploit the city grade signal that the Pru signals waste in the Bay. 93.7 is a rimshot. It cannot provide the building penetration of the Pru, OR the equal market coverage of the Needham signals.

There is no way that a stand alone 93.7 could take 98.5. 98.5 just has far superior coverage from their central location than than 93.7's north of 128 site. A move to 107.3 would be no panacea either. Currently, 107.3 roughly duplicates 93.7's coverage. Moving 107.3 back to Paxton would not help it's Boston proper coverage either.

WEEI is - and has been - working quite nicely. They are sitting pretty in the ratings war with 98.5. There is nothing broken with WEEI that needs to be fixed. Maybe the wisest choice here is to leave well enough alone.

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[Fenway1912]

The only show ESPN really wants cleared in Boston is Mike and Mike in AM drive - They hold their own in New York and Chicago.

New York clears Cowherd and Chicago clears Scott Van Pelt.

Disney is happy with 1260 doing Radio Disney. They approached Salem about 590 and it went nowhere. They have no interest in 1150 or 950.

Sooner or later we will have the 'Big Announcement'. I know I have not listened to 850 in a year. I listen in HD on 93.7 at home and FM in the car.

The 93.7 HD locks in fine in Cambridge which is not the case for the stations coming from Newton/Needham

 

[raccoonradio]

OK re: the ESPN morning show (and btw for those who really want to hear it and no affiliates are nearby it's on sat. radio, probably on smart phones of course too)

>>They approached Salem about 590 and it went nowhere. They have no interest in 1150 or 950.

Didn't know that....1260 had been suggested in the past

>>Sooner or later we will have the 'Big Announcement'.

Who knows. Now, it wouldn't be 24/7 ESPN but if they wanted they could have 850 break apart from 93.7 to carry morning show, etc. (sound far fetched, competing against D&C? That's what they're suggesting in bringing up the 24/7 possibility)

I certainly listen on 93.7 at work especially, comes in very clear. But for some in the car they may be on the AM dial listening to RKO or BZ and hit a preset button for 850 rather than hitting the FM button, then the 93.7.

 

[blackgold]

I got a great idea for the HD channels on 93.7. Let's bring Mike FM to 93.7 HD2 and FunkyTown to 93.7 HD3. And we can put a Spanish format on HD4.

 

[CTListener]

I got a great idea for the HD channels on 93.7. Let's bring Mike FM to 93.7 HD2 and FunkyTown to 93.7 HD3. And we can put a Spanish format on HD4.

Nobody's even promoting HD Radio anymore. The average listener doesn't want to buy another radio, and HD is not going to become standard on car radios. Why bother to create formats for the subchannels? And by putting Spanish on HD4, are you assuming that the Hispanic community doesn't care about audio quality?

 

[WNTIRadio]

Shockingly, my mom bought a new car two weeks ago. Of course, she has me come over and set up the radio. I discover the car came with HD radio!!! It's a Subaru Forester, so nothing exotic or fancy.

Naturally, the sales-cretin at the dealership didn't explain any of that. Hell, he didn't even try to upsell her on the floor mats. They're slipping.

Once I showed her how to use it, she likes that she can get the country station on 106.7 HD-2 in the NYC suburbs. She also listens to 880 in HD on 101.1 HD-3.

The ONLY way for HD to gain any traction is if it is built into every car as standard equipment. What does the chipset cost, an additional $2.50 on each car?? For FM, with multicasting, it stands a chance of working. For AM, shut it off. She's only 28 miles from the towers of some of the 50kW blasters and it can't stay locked for more than 30 seconds.

 

[DanStrassberg]

She's only 28 miles from the towers of some of the 50kW blasters and it can't stay locked for more than 30 seconds.

WHICH of NYC's 50 kW AMs and in which direction? If you are tallking about WFAN, WABC, or WCBS, they are ND. So the 28 miles means SOMETHING, albeit not as much as you might like because of the dramatic variations in soil conductivity in different directions. Also, hasn't WABC shut off its AM-HD? As for all the rest 710, 970 (days), 1010, 1050, 1130, 1280 (days), and--yes--1560, they are all directional to varying degrees (1130 only at night), so the 28-mile number means even less for them than it does with the ND 50-kW AMs

 

[WNTIRadio]

She's in the 4 to 5mV of WFAN and WCBS and also the 3-4mV depending upon where she's driving of WOR. I measured them in her driveway with my FIM just to satisfy my own curiosity, WFAN 5.6mV, WCBS-AM 4.8mV, WABC 7.6mV, WOR 5.3mV.

Power lines, buildings, bridges etc. all affect the AM signal, both analog and digital. Physics is physics, and the long wavelengths can't overcome that no matter the mode of transmission.

 

[iyiyi]

Coming up on one year since the end of 850//93.7. In retrospect: Wise move or no?

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[Fenway1912]

Coming up on one year since the end of 850//93.7. In retrospect: Wise move or no?

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850's PPM cume is now 60,600

I have to assume that Disney is paying Entercom enough to make it a moot point.

That said I am surprised the cume number is that low.

 

[MR. JAROME_CALVIN]

Coming up on one year since the end of 850//93.7. In retrospect: Wise move or no?

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For such a famous station (WEEI) has been around for a long time. They deserve better than this. ESPN is ok during the weekdau, but (Overnights, and weekend overnights, "ESPN Sports Center All Night" is (not) all night) They repeat their show (that show starts at 1am-it then repeats for the next four hours, so you hear the same for five hours, absolutly no listener interaction what so ever.
Yes, "FOX Sports Radio" does that as well, JT The Brick is on weeknight overnight 1am-6am eastern time. The 5am-6am is a repeat of the first hour. I belive "Ben Maller Show" on the weekend does that as well.
"Yahoo Sports Radio" is not on live weekend overnight, as well as "Sports Byline USA"
For such a famous station as WEEI, they should negociate with 1510am, and have a trade. WEEI should get "NBC Sports Radio" Have it on 24/7 on 850am, and overnights on 93.7
That's my thought. Because "NBC Sports Radio" sounds more attention grabbing and would sound good for WEEI
That's my thought

 

[raccoonradio]

The Red Sox, Celts etc had been on 850 for years and the station did well with Sports Talk but the presence of the Sports Hub and a general move by listeners to FM meant they had to go to FM and the AM has been used to "clear" the ESPN shows (including play by play) and get Entercom some money. Sometimes in conflicts one team wound up on the AM (rather than send the "other game" to WRKO). They may not do well in ratings, etc but 850 is making Entercom a little money by carrying ESPN.

>>WEEI should get NBC Sports Radio
They have a deal to run ESPN; ESPN is a more famous name than the newer NBC Sp Net etc

>>overnights on 93.7
JT The Brick has a following, thus why 93.7 carries him

It all depends on the corporate owners of WEEI, 1510 etc. and what they want to do.
ESPN btw has a lot of play by play incl baseball playoffs which would be banished to 1510
under your idea rather than 850 and/or 93.7

The World Series (if Sox aren't in it)...on AM 1510!
Yuk.

Also btw I understand Clear Channel is divorcing itself from XM/Sirius so stations like CC"s
Fox Sports Radio might be gone from sat radio

 

[dyeingeye]

Coming up on one year since the end of 850//93.7. In retrospect: Wise move or no?

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I came hear from your post on the Dan Rhea thread. Your original post implied that the loss of 850 was an important factor in WEEI's decline. I read #20 and #24 and I cannot respond to the technical details. My point was that WEEI was stumbling well before ESPN was put on 850. T&R were already beating D&C and the afternoon shake up took place in February 2011. Also, Ordway was dumped a few months after a the change. Where is there evidence that the loss of 850 was responsible for WEEI failing? The were on the way down before so I would need evidence that there are significant number of listeners lost because they cannot get 93.7.

 

[iyiyi]

Coming up on one year since the end of 850//93.7. In retrospect: Wise move or no?

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I came hear from your post on the Dan Rhea thread. Your original post implied that the loss of 850 was an important factor in WEEI's decline. I read #20 and #24 and I cannot respond to the technical details. My point was that WEEI was stumbling well before ESPN was put on 850. T&R were already beating D&C and the afternoon shake up took place in February 2011. Also, Ordway was dumped a few months after a the change. Where is there evidence that the loss of 850 was responsible for WEEI failing? The were on the way down before so I would need evidence that there are significant number of listeners lost because they cannot get 93.7.

I suggest that going back over the Boston monthly ratings threads for the last 18 months will provide any evidence needed.

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[Fenway1912]

It was sad to see 850 become a 24/7/365 birdfeed but being a sportsfan I still sample it which I can't say about 590.

I am stunned by the small cume Arbitron is reporting.

It is only a matter of time before CBS moves WBZ-1030 to FM - the AM signal I listen to the most after WBZ is WJIB.

 

[dyeingeye]

Coming up on one year since the end of 850//93.7. In retrospect: Wise move or no?

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I came hear from your post on the Dan Rhea thread. Your original post implied that the loss of 850 was an important factor in WEEI's decline. I read #20 and #24 and I cannot respond to the technical details. My point was that WEEI was stumbling well before ESPN was put on 850. T&R were already beating D&C and the afternoon shake up took place in February 2011. Also, Ordway was dumped a few months after a the change. Where is there evidence that the loss of 850 was responsible for WEEI failing? The were on the way down before so I would need evidence that there are significant number of listeners lost because they cannot get 93.7.

I suggest that going back over the Boston monthly ratings threads for the last 18 months will provide any evidence needed.

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How would it? WEEI was losing before the simulcast and before it went only 98.5. Check out this article from December 2010:

http://bostonherald.com/business/me...010/12/985_sports_hub_scores_best_ratings_yet

And why all the changes before it went to only 98.5.

The original assertion was that dropping 850 hurt WEEI. The obligation is on the person making the assertion to prove. It pointed out that WEEI was losing before the simulcast, let along before the end. So where is the proof that the drop hurt WEEI?