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riradio02842
Guest
From the PBN:
Brown student radio loses FM home
http://www.pbn.com/Brown-student-radio-loses-FM-home,60058
Brown student radio loses FM home
http://www.pbn.com/Brown-student-radio-loses-FM-home,60058
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riradio02842
Guest
... And here is the Radio Survivor article.
http://www.radiosurvivor.com/2011/07/25/brown-student-radio-station-bsr-to-go-online-only-august-1/
http://www.radiosurvivor.com/2011/07/25/brown-student-radio-station-bsr-to-go-online-only-august-1/
The former 91.5 folks are a good guess!, Although, I was thinking more along the lines of the K-Love people....They're constantly expanding, and already have low-power FM's in Rhode Island's West Bay, and in one of the New Bedford suburbs.
On the other hand though....EMF tends to like to buy rather than lease.
Oh well...I guess we'll find out soon enough.
On the other hand though....EMF tends to like to buy rather than lease.
Oh well...I guess we'll find out soon enough.
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riradio02842
Guest
If you're looking at coverage area, a logical choice would be WRNI. WELH's new coverage area nicely fits in with WRNI-FM and WCVY to cover most of RI on FM. This could also allow them to do something else with the AM station if they wanted to, such as broker it or farm it out on an LMA. Plus, Wheeler School would most likely feel it's a positive to be associated with NPR rather than the current set of leases, or some other religious or ethnic broadcaster.
At least that's the conclusion some discussion with a friend brought me to...
At least that's the conclusion some discussion with a friend brought me to...
WRNI-FM filed a waiver of the main studio rule today. In it, we find out some interesting details.
WRNI-FM will legally no longer be a satellite of WRNI-AM Providence. RIPR programming will no officially originate on WELH, and will be rebroadcast on WCVY during non-student-used hours, as well as WRNI-FM.
WRNI 1290am Providence will now be the full time home of Latino Public Radio, the group displaced from WELH.
Here's the main studio waiver request:
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101438424&qnum=5050©num=1&exhcnum=2
WRNI-FM will legally no longer be a satellite of WRNI-AM Providence. RIPR programming will no officially originate on WELH, and will be rebroadcast on WCVY during non-student-used hours, as well as WRNI-FM.
WRNI 1290am Providence will now be the full time home of Latino Public Radio, the group displaced from WELH.
Here's the main studio waiver request:
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101438424&qnum=5050©num=1&exhcnum=2
OK. Let me see if I can get the players and scorecards to make some sense here...
For scorecards, I went to the FCC FM Query and downloaded the official FCC 0.1 mv/m Google maps for players: 88.7, 99.7, 102.7, 88.1 and 91.5 (both 200w erp licensed AND 6kw C.P. versions) and stacked them up to review their respective stats.
I can see that the RIPR "mother ship" 88.1 delivers 2/3 of it's coverage area in Massachusetts Rhode Island gets a good 88.1 in Pawtucket and a piece of Providence too!
The best analogy I can use to describe 102.7s coverage appears to be a piss hole in the snow, staining less than 20% of the State of RI.
Now I attempt to fathom 91.5s current and application patterns. The current 200 watt signal has covered it's intended area perfectly for the past 2 generations and is considered to be a community asset by the residents of Coventry, RI.
The "6kw" signal expands coverage only to the SSE (130 degrees through 200 degrees with full power signal); while the other quadrants are restricted via directional antenna to basically their current values. This is a total joke because 90+% the available power increase is over uninhabited forest and park areas. I would appreciate if somebody could show me 2,500 residents added by this power increase. Also, who is paying for this 6kw upgrade? RIPR is supposed to be cash-strapped and where did Coventry Public Schools (owner of 91.5) get all this money for such a tit on a bull upgrade? Yeah, they got a Form 340 and can easily change 91.5s COL but where can 91.5 go and why?
Finally, look at the 88.7 contour and the 99.7 contour and tell me it isn't the perfect solution to RIPR's signal in the Ocean State. I've used 99.7 to demonstrate a similar signal for 102.7 were they to settle this IBOC foolishness and move to Exeter with 99.7 and 103.7. Get the 88.7 frequency and do things right!
Nobody has a pair between the entire lot of them to throw WGBH back to Massachusetts. Therefore, two high schools are going to loose their heritage radio stations. Those RIPR listeners served only by 1290 are now boned (or Boehnered) unless they know Spanish, because the "FMs" ain't gonna really reach anybody with this ridiculous joke of a "public radio network". Blow WGBH out of here. They are doing nothing more than making the people of RI look like a bunch of fools.
I have seen some stupid stunts people have tried to pull, but this one...
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For scorecards, I went to the FCC FM Query and downloaded the official FCC 0.1 mv/m Google maps for players: 88.7, 99.7, 102.7, 88.1 and 91.5 (both 200w erp licensed AND 6kw C.P. versions) and stacked them up to review their respective stats.
I can see that the RIPR "mother ship" 88.1 delivers 2/3 of it's coverage area in Massachusetts Rhode Island gets a good 88.1 in Pawtucket and a piece of Providence too!
The best analogy I can use to describe 102.7s coverage appears to be a piss hole in the snow, staining less than 20% of the State of RI.
Now I attempt to fathom 91.5s current and application patterns. The current 200 watt signal has covered it's intended area perfectly for the past 2 generations and is considered to be a community asset by the residents of Coventry, RI.
The "6kw" signal expands coverage only to the SSE (130 degrees through 200 degrees with full power signal); while the other quadrants are restricted via directional antenna to basically their current values. This is a total joke because 90+% the available power increase is over uninhabited forest and park areas. I would appreciate if somebody could show me 2,500 residents added by this power increase. Also, who is paying for this 6kw upgrade? RIPR is supposed to be cash-strapped and where did Coventry Public Schools (owner of 91.5) get all this money for such a tit on a bull upgrade? Yeah, they got a Form 340 and can easily change 91.5s COL but where can 91.5 go and why?
Finally, look at the 88.7 contour and the 99.7 contour and tell me it isn't the perfect solution to RIPR's signal in the Ocean State. I've used 99.7 to demonstrate a similar signal for 102.7 were they to settle this IBOC foolishness and move to Exeter with 99.7 and 103.7. Get the 88.7 frequency and do things right!
Nobody has a pair between the entire lot of them to throw WGBH back to Massachusetts. Therefore, two high schools are going to loose their heritage radio stations. Those RIPR listeners served only by 1290 are now boned (or Boehnered) unless they know Spanish, because the "FMs" ain't gonna really reach anybody with this ridiculous joke of a "public radio network". Blow WGBH out of here. They are doing nothing more than making the people of RI look like a bunch of fools.
I have seen some stupid stunts people have tried to pull, but this one...
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We'll go in order here:
The entire city of Providence is within the 60 dBu contour of WELH. Naturally you're going to cover MA from Providence.
When you're broadcasting from Narragansett, you're going to reach a lot of fishies and not a lot of people. As the last full-power commercial signal added to RI in 1989, WRNI-FM (ex WAKX, ex WPJB) has always had a lot of protecting to do, and as such has always suffered from low HAAT and a transmitter location on the shore. The signal does a great job covering Narragansett, which is what it was designed to do.
This just isn't true. It's a 3,000% increase in power. It's a 173% increase in land area covered. MOST importantly, the population covered by the new 60 dBu contour is 146,993 persons, an increase of 72,803 persons. That's a 98% increase. That's pretty significant.
Yes, 88.7 is a great signal. No, it's not available, nor will it become available. It's not an option, end of story.
Yes, 99.7 is a good signal. No, it's not available, and it's pretty unlikely that it'll become available. It's a money-maker for Citadel as an FM home for WPRO. As expensive as the WCVY upgrade will be, it's a heck of a lot less than the price of a top-50 market rimshot commercial signal would be. Hell, WRNI-FM cost them 2.56 million, and that's a piss poor signal as you pointed out. The WCVY upgrade is a small fraction of that cost.
Here's the big one: 102.7 WRNI-FM can't move to Exeter because of prohibited overlap with WKLB. It has nothing to do with IBOC. It's all about 60 dBu contours and FCC rules. You just can't move that signal north. Why would Greater Media ever willingly degrade their signal, regardless of past disagreements with RIPR?
WRNI-FM is also short spaced to WMOS Stonington. A move to Exeter would likely increase that prohibited overlap as well.
If it could be done, it would have been done.
I don't know what your problem is with the WGBH Educational Foundation, but they've obviously made you upset.
I wouldn't call WELH a heritage high school station... yeah, it's owned by a high school, but the programming's been farmed out for quite a long time. The station's only been on the air since 1995, and since 1997 it's been a hodge-podge of Brown Student Radio, Rhode Island College for a while, some Spanish broadcasts, and some community programming here and there.
As for WCVY, the student programming will remain in place. It's always been limited hours and only during the school year, and that's not changing. All that's changing is that they no longer have to share time with WRJI since its deletion, and so now there are extra hours that need to be programmed. Those extra hours will be filled by RIPR. It's a win-win.
The FM stations of RIPR will serve hundreds of thousands of people. That's a fact. No station is perfect, and for a relatively fledgeling operation, it's not too shabby. They're working hard to improve their coverage, and they're succeeding.
How is WGBH making the people of RI look foolish? They're providing legendary classical broadcasting to the heart of Rhode Island. WCRI is great, but have you seen their coverage map? Talk about broadcasting to the fishies...
iyiyi said:
The entire city of Providence is within the 60 dBu contour of WELH. Naturally you're going to cover MA from Providence.
iyiyi said:
When you're broadcasting from Narragansett, you're going to reach a lot of fishies and not a lot of people. As the last full-power commercial signal added to RI in 1989, WRNI-FM (ex WAKX, ex WPJB) has always had a lot of protecting to do, and as such has always suffered from low HAAT and a transmitter location on the shore. The signal does a great job covering Narragansett, which is what it was designed to do.
iyiyi said:
This just isn't true. It's a 3,000% increase in power. It's a 173% increase in land area covered. MOST importantly, the population covered by the new 60 dBu contour is 146,993 persons, an increase of 72,803 persons. That's a 98% increase. That's pretty significant.
iyiyi said:
Yes, 88.7 is a great signal. No, it's not available, nor will it become available. It's not an option, end of story.
Yes, 99.7 is a good signal. No, it's not available, and it's pretty unlikely that it'll become available. It's a money-maker for Citadel as an FM home for WPRO. As expensive as the WCVY upgrade will be, it's a heck of a lot less than the price of a top-50 market rimshot commercial signal would be. Hell, WRNI-FM cost them 2.56 million, and that's a piss poor signal as you pointed out. The WCVY upgrade is a small fraction of that cost.
Here's the big one: 102.7 WRNI-FM can't move to Exeter because of prohibited overlap with WKLB. It has nothing to do with IBOC. It's all about 60 dBu contours and FCC rules. You just can't move that signal north. Why would Greater Media ever willingly degrade their signal, regardless of past disagreements with RIPR?
WRNI-FM is also short spaced to WMOS Stonington. A move to Exeter would likely increase that prohibited overlap as well.
If it could be done, it would have been done.
iyiyi said:
I don't know what your problem is with the WGBH Educational Foundation, but they've obviously made you upset.
I wouldn't call WELH a heritage high school station... yeah, it's owned by a high school, but the programming's been farmed out for quite a long time. The station's only been on the air since 1995, and since 1997 it's been a hodge-podge of Brown Student Radio, Rhode Island College for a while, some Spanish broadcasts, and some community programming here and there.
As for WCVY, the student programming will remain in place. It's always been limited hours and only during the school year, and that's not changing. All that's changing is that they no longer have to share time with WRJI since its deletion, and so now there are extra hours that need to be programmed. Those extra hours will be filled by RIPR. It's a win-win.
The FM stations of RIPR will serve hundreds of thousands of people. That's a fact. No station is perfect, and for a relatively fledgeling operation, it's not too shabby. They're working hard to improve their coverage, and they're succeeding.
How is WGBH making the people of RI look foolish? They're providing legendary classical broadcasting to the heart of Rhode Island. WCRI is great, but have you seen their coverage map? Talk about broadcasting to the fishies...
reelyreal;
I can understand where you are coming from. God bless you! FYI, WMOS on second adjacent 102.3 currently has it's 60dBu contour just a couple miles from the WRNI tower. An Exeter move would put WRNI in an area where the terrain would benefit both stations. I believe the correct order here: 1) Close your eyes. 2) Click your heels together three times as you say; 3) "I want to go home" three times. Repeat it as needed.
For everyone else; I'm sorry things got too technical for some of you. I'll attempt a glossary to help some of the non-technical folk grasp a handle on what is being discussed here. The FCC provides pertinent radio information in the FM Query. You enter the call sign of a station of interest and all power, antenna and etc for that station is displayed. For this application, we discuss signal strength as "how many thousandths of Volt will the signal put into a one meter length of wire" as the norm. Very accurate instruments are used to determine this and all radio engineers refer to it as "millivolts per meter" or mv/M shorthand. Milli means thousandth. The FCC says that a signal of one, one thousandth of a volt or more is the station's coverage area. All other stations must protect that station's coverage area. The numbers you need to understand are: 60dBu is 1 mv/M, 70dBu is 3.16 mv/M and 54dBu is 0.5 mv/M. The FCC calls 70dBu or higher a "city grade" signal and considers the 60dBu level the point where an ordinary radio with an ordinary antenna should be able to receive that station with little difficulty. 54dBu is the point the signal is weak enough to want to change the channel. You hear "contour" mentioned. This contour is a diagram of what the FCC says is 1mv/M or more and is the "coverage area". The FCC presents this on a map as a line depicting the 60dBu (1mv/M) "coverage area". These maps are provided along with the other information and are described Google 60dBu coverage map. Some large stations are plotted on the 54dBu contour instead, but now you know what these numbers mean so it should be very clear to you if you download these maps. Sorry for the poor descriptions but I hope I clarified this enough that you feel some understanding of what we are discussing here.
This has been just about all I am able to contribute about my feelings toward the situation at hand.
The only other advice I have is: Don't stand anywhere near the fan!
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I can understand where you are coming from. God bless you! FYI, WMOS on second adjacent 102.3 currently has it's 60dBu contour just a couple miles from the WRNI tower. An Exeter move would put WRNI in an area where the terrain would benefit both stations. I believe the correct order here: 1) Close your eyes. 2) Click your heels together three times as you say; 3) "I want to go home" three times. Repeat it as needed.
For everyone else; I'm sorry things got too technical for some of you. I'll attempt a glossary to help some of the non-technical folk grasp a handle on what is being discussed here. The FCC provides pertinent radio information in the FM Query. You enter the call sign of a station of interest and all power, antenna and etc for that station is displayed. For this application, we discuss signal strength as "how many thousandths of Volt will the signal put into a one meter length of wire" as the norm. Very accurate instruments are used to determine this and all radio engineers refer to it as "millivolts per meter" or mv/M shorthand. Milli means thousandth. The FCC says that a signal of one, one thousandth of a volt or more is the station's coverage area. All other stations must protect that station's coverage area. The numbers you need to understand are: 60dBu is 1 mv/M, 70dBu is 3.16 mv/M and 54dBu is 0.5 mv/M. The FCC calls 70dBu or higher a "city grade" signal and considers the 60dBu level the point where an ordinary radio with an ordinary antenna should be able to receive that station with little difficulty. 54dBu is the point the signal is weak enough to want to change the channel. You hear "contour" mentioned. This contour is a diagram of what the FCC says is 1mv/M or more and is the "coverage area". The FCC presents this on a map as a line depicting the 60dBu (1mv/M) "coverage area". These maps are provided along with the other information and are described Google 60dBu coverage map. Some large stations are plotted on the 54dBu contour instead, but now you know what these numbers mean so it should be very clear to you if you download these maps. Sorry for the poor descriptions but I hope I clarified this enough that you feel some understanding of what we are discussing here.
This has been just about all I am able to contribute about my feelings toward the situation at hand.
The only other advice I have is: Don't stand anywhere near the fan!
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riradio02842
Guest
The discussion isn't too technical to understand, it's just that your points don't make much sense.
These are some good decisions being made by WRNI. I really don't think they are making these decisions with the WGBH/WJMF deal in mind. Listenership will definitely increase now that they will have some improved FM signals around RI, without a huge investment in cash.
Looks like WELH will have a real identity for the first time in over a decade, since they were doing alternative programming full time as "Extreme 88", just too bad it's not their own.
These are some good decisions being made by WRNI. I really don't think they are making these decisions with the WGBH/WJMF deal in mind. Listenership will definitely increase now that they will have some improved FM signals around RI, without a huge investment in cash.
Looks like WELH will have a real identity for the first time in over a decade, since they were doing alternative programming full time as "Extreme 88", just too bad it's not their own.
Fybush covers all the WELH, WJMF etc changes (incl. Spanish landing on 1290) in the new NERW
http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html
http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html
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