West Coast Repeats - is it true?

[Stu Dio]

I've heard it said that there were more bloopers, miscues, blown lines, garbled lines, etc., during the West Coast broadcasts of neetwork shows than the others. The reasoning goes that, whether the show originated in New York or California, after the first live broadcast for the East and Central zones, the cast and crew had at least two hours before repeating the show (This would have been in the days before transcription and during the prohibition of recorded programmings). During the break they likely relaxed, may have had a few drinks or refreshment, and so when they came back on stage for the West Coast show, they were "looser." It also has been suggested that having gone through one performance, they had a better idea of what worked and what didn't, and took some liberties to try and punch up parts of the script that weren't making it. These ad-libs sometimes didn't come off right, or the other actors failed to pick up the new cue, or the revisiion simply wasn't thought completely through.
Just wondering, because I have some Benny and Hope programs with wonderful gafs in them but only have dates, not hour of broadcast.
Anybody?

 

[Ultimajock]

...most of the circulating pre-war Jack Benny airchecks were from whichever city he originated the show from, and the recordings usually contain station IDs right after the show itself ends. Benny started out in New York on the Blue Network in 1932, thus his first broadcast aircheck contains a WJZ New York ID (as well as the oldest known recording of the G-E-C NBC Chimes). He moved to Hollywood and the Red Network of NBC once the nationwide lines were established, and the airchecks from then on usually have a KFI Los Angeles ID at the end. Most of the circulating copies of the 1937 Jack Benny-Fred Allen Feud programs are from KFI's air, even though the last couple were done in New York. One particularly worth seeking out is the broadcast of April 11, 1943, on which Benny returned to the program after a month's illness and Orson Welles, who had subbed for Benny during three of those weeks (deliciously lampooning his own autocratic image), makes one more appearance. The Grape-Nuts Flakes commercials were woven into the script, and during one of them Welles gets so caught up in his own mock manic delivery he starts fighting back his own laughter, with Benny expertly ad-libbing to milk the moments for all they were worth...

 

[Stu Dio]

Still doesn't answer the question about on which broadcast the "bloopers" occured. In the instance you cite, was Welles cracking up because he was now trying to "punch up" a deliver that he thought was a little flat the first time, or was it his first run at it? Just curious and trying to get an insight to the atmosphere on the stages during those broadcasts.

 

[Ultimajock]

Still doesn't answer the question about on which broadcast the "bloopers" occured. In the instance you cite, was Welles cracking up because he was now trying to "punch up" a deliver that he thought was a little flat the first time, or was it his first run at it? Just curious and trying to get an insight to the atmosphere on the stages during those broadcasts.

...in the Benny-Welles case, that would have been the West Coast feed; the source for that one was Benny's personal collection, and at that time his stock would have been coming from KFI's air...

...not a comedy item, but certainly one where there was a marked difference between programs, was Glenn Miller's final "Chesterfield Moonlight Serenade" over CBS on September 23, 1942. On the East Coast feed, originating from CBS' studios in New York City, Harry James guested and played the trumpet solo on "Juke Box Saturday Night." When it came time for the West Coast feed, it was done as a remote from the Miller band's final concert in Passaic, New Jersey, and both James and announcer Mel Allen were caught up in New York traffic and missed the show; Bobby Hackett played the trumpet solo, and Larry Bruff stood in for Allen...

 

[Stu Dio]

That's the information I'm looking for! While not impossible for professional to do two perfect productions, there had to be differences, and I'm trying to imagine what might have been the influences.
And I wonder about poor Agnes Moorehead in SORRY, WRONG NUMBER? I've read she did the part seated at a table, and at the end of the performance she was flat out across it. Can you imagine the energy it would have required to do that twice?
But, wait -- wasn't SUSPEN one of those shows CBS allowed to be "transcribed" for the West Coast as long as they disclosed it in the show opening? She might not have had to do it two times.

 

[ercjncpr]

That's the information I'm looking for! While not impossible for professional to do two perfect productions, there had to be differences, and I'm trying to imagine what might have been the influences.
And I wonder about poor Agnes Moorehead in SORRY, WRONG NUMBER? I've read she did the part seated at a table, and at the end of the performance she was flat out across it. Can you imagine the energy it would have required to do that twice?
But, wait -- wasn't SUSPEN one of those shows CBS allowed to be "transcribed" for the West Coast as long as they disclosed it in the show opening? She might not have had to do it two times.

Actually the first performance of Sorry Wrong Number (the one with the blooper on the Eastern broadcast) was done with no mistakes on the West Coast 3 hours later

 

[Al Johnson]

NBC staff used to retire to Hurley's, a saloon next to 30 Rock.

Dick Osgood recounts in his history of WXYZ, Detroit some of the drinking exploits of Lone Ranger, Green Hornet and Sergeant Preston cast members at a nearby bar between feeds.

Transcribed programs were not allowed on the major networks until the late 40s and then they had to be identified as recorded. The networks generally snuck the word "transcribed" into a program's opening or closing narration and hoped nobody would know what it meant. (Dragnet - "transcribed from official police files." What, they looked up cases and wrote them down?)

 

[ercjncpr]

NBC staff used to retire to Hurley's, a saloon next to 30 Rock.

Dick Osgood recounts in his history of WXYZ, Detroit some of the drinking exploits of Lone Ranger, Green Hornet and Sergeant Preston cast members at a nearby bar between feeds.

Transcribed programs were not allowed on the major networks until the late 40s and then they had to be identified as recorded. The networks generally snuck the word "transcribed" into a program's opening or closing narration and hoped nobody would know what it meant. (Dragnet - "transcribed from official police files." What, they looked up cases and wrote them down?)

The Mutual network was more obvious about it, saying something like "the following program was transcribed from Eastern Mutual for broadcast at this more convenient time". Fred Foy, the long time Lone Ranger announcer would simply intone "by special recording-The Lone Ranger!"

 

[Ultimajock]

Transcribed programs were not allowed on the major networks until the late 40s and then they had to be identified as recorded. The networks generally snuck the word "transcribed" into a program's opening or closing narration and hoped nobody would know what it meant.

...the only pre-War exception to this being "Information Please," which the Blue Network of NBC allowed to be aired on its West Coast affiliates via transcription; the rationale, explained in the 21 August 1939 issue of Time, was that you just couldn't recreate an ad-libbed quiz program three hours after you first produced it...

 

[Al Johnson]

The Mutual network was more obvious about it, saying something like "the following program was transcribed from Eastern Mutual for broadcast at this more convenient time". Fred Foy, the long time Lone Ranger announcer would simply intone "by special recording-The Lone Ranger!"

Not quite. Mutual only carried the Lone Ranger until 1938. After that, the program was on NBC (Blue) and then ABC. Fred Foy did not become the announcer on the Lone Ranger until 1946. Ironically, WXYZ dropped Mutual and became an NBC (Blue) affiliate in 1935. For the next few years, WXYZ produced the Lone Ranger but the show was heard in Detroit on Mutual's new affiliate, CKLW.

In either case, Mutual and NBC (Blue) fed the show live to the West Coast. After use of audio tape become common for network shows, ABC fed a recorded show to the West Coast.

Special Recording was a company started by WXYZ audio engineer Fred Flowerday, which recorded, preserved and distributed the Lone Ranger in syndication after the program ceased production. Fred Foy recorded the "Special Recording" into for Flowerday but it was never part of live network broadcasts.

 

[ercjncpr]

The Mutual network was more obvious about it, saying something like "the following program was transcribed from Eastern Mutual for broadcast at this more convenient time". Fred Foy, the long time Lone Ranger announcer would simply intone "by special recording-The Lone Ranger!"

Not quite. Mutual only carried the Lone Ranger until 1938. After that, the program was on NBC (Blue) and then ABC. Fred Foy did not become the announcer on the Lone Ranger until 1946. Ironically, WXYZ dropped Mutual and became an NBC (Blue) affiliate in 1935. For the next few years, WXYZ produced the Lone Ranger but the show was heard in Detroit on Mutual's new affiliate, CKLW.

In either case, Mutual and NBC (Blue) fed the show live to the West Coast. After use of audio tape become common for network shows, ABC fed a recorded show to the West Coast.

Special Recording was a company started by WXYZ audio engineer Fred Flowerday, which recorded, preserved and distributed the Lone Ranger in syndication after the program ceased production. Fred Foy recorded the "Special Recording" into for Flowerday but it was never part of live network broadcasts.

thanks...learn something new everyday

 

[ercjncpr]

Not to belabor the point, but wasn't the Lone Ranger distributed by transcription into certain markets during its original run (a practice known as extension spotting?)

 

[oldtimeradio]

I was amazed to find out that the early radio network lines only went as far Denver Colorado. The west coast stations had studios in San Francisco who re-created the program from the original script.

Thus, not only did NBC have the Red and the Blue Network, but the West Coast networks had two other colors --- orange and gold.

See http://www.adams.net/~jfs/nbc.htm

Mike

 

[Mike Hobart]

And of course you had all the cases where American radio scripts were sold to Australia where local companies performed them for broadcast Down Under. I grew up listening to Superman being played by Leonard Teale.

I don't think we ever heard any of the original US shows, just local re-creations of the programmes.

http://mikehobart.multiply.com

 

[Al Johnson]

I was amazed to find out that the early radio network lines only went as far Denver Colorado. The west coast stations had studios in San Francisco who re-created the program from the original script.

Thus, not only did NBC have the Red and the Blue Network, but the West Coast networks had two other colors --- orange and gold.

See http://www.adams.net/~jfs/nbc.htm

Mike

Not quite. The Orange (Pacific) Network originally carried shows from both the Red and Blue Networks (but mostly the more popular Red line-up). Some shows were re-created; some were carried live from the East Coast. The issues were cost and whether the sponsors (most of whom owned and produced the shows and just rented time and production facilities from the networks) wanted to pay. The networks shut down in the East at 11pm. Doing a live repeat for the West Coast meant keeping the coast to coast line (rented from AT&T) up after hours. In the case of drama with anonymous actors, it made sense to re-produce the show from San Francisco (the network hub in the early and mid 30s). For a show with "name" stars, the should could air live in the West (but before prime time) or the sponsor would ante extra for a live repeat. During the early and mid 30s, the few coast to coast shows from the West originated in San Francisco. When Hollywood stars appeared, they would have to go up to the Bay Area (which was an inducement since LA was still a small town and SF was seen as the more exciting city).