I think you are all constraining things by thinking it has to be the same basic facility. What is on cochannels and adjacent channels can, if necessary, use a DA which protects them.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
In fact, if the station moves west, then there is an advantage to being directional towards the east, over Manhattan and Long Island. If far enough inland, a pattern that radiates very little towards those potentially protected adjacent channel stations pushes more power over the metro.
The best case for re-siting 1560 is creating the "same basic facility". WQXR/WFME had the same Maspeth facility for 60 years, and other stations have encroached on it since that time, like the cochannel daytimer on the Delmarva. Those other allocations must continue to be respected - or bought out as David suggested.
Probably the second best case is a site in the Meadowlands which sends all the power out to Long Island, similar to the WINS pattern. What I don't know, and am not qualified to evaluate, is whether there exists a site suitable for a 50kW DA on 1560 capable of generating that sort of power.
Then there's the additional question of whether Family Radio and the owner of the existing tower site can reach an agreement to return 1560 back to the air. If an agreement could be made, I would think the FCC would grant STA to operate with temporary facilities from the new proposed diplexing site to preserve the license while the diplex is built.
Nope. That's been covered before. They had to pay the new site owner a lot of money to keep the station on through Monday. The station doesn't want to pay any more. Here's Tom Ray: "They extended the January sign off to February - at an unGodly sum of money - more than many AM stations sell for these days. It does not make economic sense to maintain the WFME signal at this time."
Family Radio seems just fine shutting down the station for now.
I didn't mean the long-time WFME tower site in Maspeth, I meant the site where they might agree to diplex.
For a marginal station, a high power bill is significant. For a small market station it is. For major stations that are eligible for agency buys in NYC, power is much less of a factor than other and larger expense categories.
Where a sales manager may make $300,000 or thereabout, the light bill is likely not as significant. But if your whole station bills under a million or is a low-endowement non-com, then it is.
In NYC, there are over 20 stations billing over $5 million. A full 50 kw AM with tower lights and all might use 70 to 80 kw hours of power an hour, so that is about $250 a day in that market or perhaps $7 thousand to $8 thousand a month. A lower power AM is less, and an FM on the ESB is likely not more than $1000 to $1500 (a wild guess based on minimal knowledge of antenna gain on the ESB... Scott likely can be much more precise.).
But 1560 is a 50 kw AM, and has a combination of a terrible frequency, a dying band, and no revenue. So that high power bill is a significant detriment to profitability in many marginal formats. So my point is that in this specific case, the cost of power is significant. It is not for WINS or WCBS because, if you bill $40 million, $100 k a year for power is not a big item.
It got COPPA’d
J
Joylovepulse967
Guest
They are moving out at old site .here a picture from Tom ray Facebook page
Tom said last month they'd move the transmitter "into storage for the time being." Gotta get off the land by the end of the week.
Towers will probably fall soon too. Watch for video!
J
Joylovepulse967
Guest
When
New user here, long-time radio enthusiast. WFME had been a big part of my routine since coming across them by accident around 5 years ago when surfing around on my new car's am radio (they do a lot better job grounding the noisy am band these days vs. cars from the 80's and before!). Back in the day I also recall listening to WQXR and WQEW although I didn't tune in during the Disney years. I'd sort of lost touch with the upper part of the am band til that random search. I think it was in late fall of 2015 around 9am eastern when I picked it up.
Up here in central Ontario the WFME signal was just tremendous. At night it was often like a local using my Yamaha TX-1000 with el cheapo external am antenna. Even in the daytime in winter it could be heard waxing and waning in and out, especially out driving.
Hopefully, if they do come back on clear channel 1560, the signal will again reach into Canada. I know their programming is available online but it's just not the same and the availability of an am signal with no hassling around is so convenient. I'm sure a lot of older folks that were regular listeners and not tech-savvy aren't too happy. But reading the news and getting up to speed on what happened it was obvious they had to take that deal.
Anyway, just wanted to thank everyone here for their in-depth knowledge, comments, thoughts, pictures and especially to fybush, as I really enjoyed your "Site of the Week 2/19/2021: New York's 1560 - A Last Look (For Now).
Up here in central Ontario the WFME signal was just tremendous. At night it was often like a local using my Yamaha TX-1000 with el cheapo external am antenna. Even in the daytime in winter it could be heard waxing and waning in and out, especially out driving.
Hopefully, if they do come back on clear channel 1560, the signal will again reach into Canada. I know their programming is available online but it's just not the same and the availability of an am signal with no hassling around is so convenient. I'm sure a lot of older folks that were regular listeners and not tech-savvy aren't too happy. But reading the news and getting up to speed on what happened it was obvious they had to take that deal.
Anyway, just wanted to thank everyone here for their in-depth knowledge, comments, thoughts, pictures and especially to fybush, as I really enjoyed your "Site of the Week 2/19/2021: New York's 1560 - A Last Look (For Now).
Bob, what are you hearing on 1560 now in WFME's absence?
Hi-I get WGLB out of Elm Grove WI. Although it's generally a poor signal, pointing my am loop antenna toward it for max gain, it comes in poor to fair and then fades in and out. Not really listenable (3 out of 10 at best) but it's there pretty much unopposed on 1560 since WFME went silent.
I looked up WGLB's nighttime signal and it says it's 250 watts so I'm obviously getting a nighttime sky wave. During the WFME days it was always there underneath a bit even with my antenna pointed in WFME's direction.
I think I also heard a country station (KLTI ?) coming in very faintly the other night when the WGLB signal deteriorated and there's maybe something else there with talk. Have no idea who they'd be, there's a few 1560's with with nighttime power less than 100 watts but no positive ID's yet.
Last edited:
Strange. That country station is, I believe, WKDO am. A thousand watter, which, from what I can gather from internet searches, does not broadcast at night. Maybe that's changed. It was during a WGLB fade. Not a postive ID but I matched the song (Juice Newton The Sweetest Thing) with WKDO's simulcast online FM WKDO 98.7- The Buck. Really faint on the radio but I know I was hearing the same song. Again, no positive ID. It was around 10pm EST.
Anyway, don't mean to get off-topic-- just finding these little stations broadcasting at such low wattages really shows how much was going on underneath that gargantuan 50kw of WFME.
Last edited:
I remember hearing WGLB 1560 in Genesee County, MI, right before sunset, when it was 250 watts Daytime only in Port Washington, WI, in 1968. That same sunset, I also heard WAWA 1590 West Alllis, WI with 1000 watts DA-D beamed straight East, but is now defunct, and WPLY 1420 Plymouth, WI with 500 watts. It was a good Night for Sunset DXing!
It's interesting to see how close the WFME towers were located next to occupied workplaces. Most 50kw AM stations including those in the Meadowlands are still farther from people.
One exception is WABC with its tower literally in people's backyards in Lodi, NJ.
How are these 50kw stations able to meet RF safety levels in such close proximity to homes and businesses? Haven't the regulations been tightened over the years, even as development has built up around the transmitter sites?
One exception is WABC with its tower literally in people's backyards in Lodi, NJ.
How are these 50kw stations able to meet RF safety levels in such close proximity to homes and businesses? Haven't the regulations been tightened over the years, even as development has built up around the transmitter sites?
The 50 kw KTNQ site in LA, shared with another 50 kw station, has a huge warehouse and industrial complex built under the towers and also under the elevated counterpoise ground system. There are many, many AM sites for 50 kw stations with business and residential areas surrounding them.It's interesting to see how close the WFME towers were located next to occupied workplaces. Most 50kw AM stations including those in the Meadowlands are still farther from people.
One exception is WABC with its tower literally in people's backyards in Lodi, NJ.
How are these 50kw stations able to meet RF safety levels in such close proximity to homes and businesses? Haven't the regulations been tightened over the years, even as development has built up around the transmitter sites?
1580 in LA, a 50 kw directional operation, is surrounded by mixed homes, apartments and retail outlets. KNX is similarly located in a mixed neighborhood with lots of residential neighborhoods nearby. 50 kw 710 in LA, soon moving, has for decades had homes and appartments on all four sides (except for a little parkland to the west).
The word "grandfathered" comes to mind. When the WABC tower was built, none of those other things were around.
The reason the Meadowlands is so isolated is because that land is designated wetlands, mostly owned by the state. The only construction near it was the stadium and the race track, but that's all part of the NJ Sports & Exposition Authority. The closest actual tower to all of the sports facilities was the old 1050AM tower for WHN.
If you look at the WLW tower, it's in the middle of a populated area. Same with WSM in Brentwood, the old WMAL in Bethesda, and the old WBBM outside Chicago. They got the rights to those spots 70 years ago when the land was empty and cheap, and all of the population came later.
Is that a guess or is there actually a grandfather provision in the FCC rules or federal law exempting broadcasters from safe RF limits in such cases?
I don't even know what the limit is but I do know there are rules. I'm amazed a 640-foot tower cranking out 50,000 watts, 700 feet from a house, is able to do it but I'm not an engineer.
- Status