WFNX is still going down.........

[spilot113]

I know we'll have all the 'FNX apologists here soon, saying that things are on an upswing, or there are certain demo's they do well in, etc.....but the fact remains.....

WFNX is STILL going down in the ratings.

In the most recent trend........they had a 0.7!

They are being beaten (in Boston) by WCTK from Providence!

They are being beaten (in Boston) by WXLO from Worcester!

They are being beaten (in Boston) by WGIR-FM from Manchester!

They are being beaten by WJIB and WILD...virtual daytimers on AM!!!

They are being beaten by WPLM!

They are tied with WNNW...a Spanish language station from Lawrence!

When will they admit they are on the wrong track?

(I don't blame any of the jocks, who I'm sure are giving it their all. I blame the strategy and the management.)

There ain't no way to put a shine on these numbers!

 

[mistermicrophone]

I know we'll have all the 'FNX apologists here soon, saying that things are on an upswing, or there are certain demo's they do well in, etc.....but the fact remains.....

WFNX is STILL going down in the ratings.

In the most recent trend........they had a 0.7!

They are being beaten (in Boston) by WCTK from Providence!

They are being beaten (in Boston) by WXLO from Worcester!

They are being beaten (in Boston) by WGIR-FM from Manchester!

They are being beaten by WJIB and WILD...virtual daytimers on AM!!!

They are being beaten by WPLM!

They are tied with WNNW...a Spanish language station from Lawrence!

When will they admit they are on the wrong track?

(I don't blame any of the jocks, who I'm sure are giving it their all. I blame the strategy and the management.)

There ain't no way to put a shine on these numbers!

But...are they making money?? Those are the only numbers that count! And no, I am not an apologist, I know what really matters in business.

By the way, if you say people are going to claim they are doing well in certain demos...and if in fact, they are, then why does the 12+ trend matter? A spike in your core demo and dropping off in a demo that doesn't matter may result in a net loss, although it proves your product is focused.

 

[baconandlegs]

I'm sure they're shaking in their boots over at WFNX.
I mean, Arbitron's ratings are SO accurate n' all.
Please.

 

[ciao99]

I'm sure they're shaking in their boots over at WFNX.
I mean, Arbitron's ratings are SO accurate n' all.
Please.

You created a new account just to say that?

 

[aaronread]

Are those the 12+ numbers? C'mon, man...there's a reason why those are free: they're practically meaningless. I don't work there, but given their programming I'd have to guess WFNX really only cares about the 18-34 demo...what're their numbers for that? Wikipedia claims that their ratings in that demo have gone up as recently as 2006. I don't pretend that Wikipedia is gospel truth, but still...

And as others have noted, is the station profitable? Ratings alone do not dictate revenue, nor does revenue alone does not dictate profitability. Assuming WFNX is profitable, why change things? Especially since, technically, WFNX doesn't have to be "profitable" on its own because of the the Phoenix. AFAIK Mindich does not ascribe to the philosophy that WFNX can function as a loss-leader for the Phoenix (or vice versa)...in other words, each venture must stand on its own merits. However, the ties that bind, bind both ways...the same way the Phoenix helps WFNX (and vice versa) also means that WFNX cannot lightly change formats. They're pretty pigeonholed into the rock or alt-rock format. Hence why the oft-shouted calls for WFNX to "go Spanish" are pretty laughable...how the heck would THAT would with the Phoenix?

 

[Keith321]

Are those the 12+ numbers? C'mon, man...there's a reason why those are free: they're practically meaningless.

Wikipedia claims that their ratings in that demo have gone up as recently as 2006[/url]. I don't pretend that Wikipedia is gospel truth, but still...

HI Aaron....
You criticize the 12+ numbers....then you use Wikipedia as a source? LOL 12+ numbers aren't meaningless, they represent the total # of bodies. (And it's better than nothing....)

I think what the poster is simply saying is that this once strong station, WFNX, has less listeners/listening in the metro than stations from outside the metro...less listeners/listening than AM day timers. This is not a healthy station.

Now about the revenue/demo question:

But...are they making money?? Those are the only numbers that count!

Close, but no cigar. If you are the owner, are you making 1% of your investment back while everyone else is making 8%??

The question is how much money are they making....and is the investment performing against it's benchmarks.

If everyone is making 10-14% in the market and you are only making 3%....I think it's time to change investment managers/advisors.

There are always stations with crappy programming that simply "make money"....but we are assuming that WFNX wants to be "in the game" and competitive.

I'm sure they're shaking in their boots over at WFNX.
I mean, Arbitron's ratings are SO accurate n' all.
Please.

Well, Murph, maybe not in the production department, but...

Re: Arbitron's accuracy.....Let's just say, for instance, that Arbitron is off by 25%.......what does that give them....a 0.9?

 

[mistermicrophone]

Close, but no cigar. If you are the owner, are you making 1% of your investment back while everyone else is making 8%??

The question is how much money are they making....and is the investment performing against it's benchmarks.

If everyone is making 10-14% in the market and you are only making 3%....I think it's time to change investment managers/advisors.

There are always stations with crappy programming that simply "make money"....but we are assuming that WFNX wants to be "in the game" and competitive.

Yeah, thanks for the business lesson!?! I didn't realize that when I menat the station was making money, I had to specify to profit margin. My point was if ownership was happy, then the 12+ ratings (or any ratings) are meaningless.

 

[Keith321]

My point was if ownership was happy, then the 12+ ratings (or any ratings) are meaningless.

If you were the owner, would you be happy to make less than everyone else?

 

[ex radio pimp]

My friend who still works there tells me that after the last book (.8) many of the full timers got promotions/new titles. So maybe they're doing just fine and the numbers really don't matter to them. I'm not sure how advertisers decide where they want to put their money and I don't understand why anyone would put money into reaching the invisible force that is FNX's audience but...

I don't know anything about the business side of radio. Maybe it really is OK to lose in the ratings for a station like FNX. I don't get it but they don't seem to concerned.

 

[mistermicrophone]

My point was if ownership was happy, then the 12+ ratings (or any ratings) are meaningless.

If you were the owner, would you be happy to make less than everyone else?

My point wasn't to argue what FNX is making vs. CC, CBS, Entercom or GM. Once again, if ownership of WFNX is happy with what they are making, then the 12+ ratings don't matter. Would ANY business owner want to make more money than the other guys? Of course. Does that a business can't be happy with what they are doing? No...once agian, my point.

I was speaking hypothetically, you make it sound like you know what their profit margin is vs. the rest of the market...which I am sure you don't.

 

[spilot113]

My point was if ownership was happy, then the 12+ ratings (or any ratings) are meaningless.

If you were the owner, would you be happy to make less than everyone else?

Once again, if ownership of WFNX is happy with what they are making, then the 12+ ratings don't matter.

I can't imagine they're happy.

Anyone venture to guess the value of WFNX these days?

The last station we have any numbers on were WCRB/WKLB 102.5. ...and that was somewhere on the 85-95 million range for a full signal.

Anyone have any insight as to what WFNX is worth these days....knowing that it is not a full signal?

 

[WBIMDJ]

You guys don't get it. This topic has been BEATEN INTO THE GROUND several times. WFNX has, is, and will not ever be about ratings. It just isn't what the station's "in tuned" to. But yet another topic about it pops up every week. Like someone on this board said, if ratings equaled the amount of time you guys talked about this station they would be off the charts. LOL

 

[LA_Guy]

My point was if ownership was happy, then the 12+ ratings (or any ratings) are meaningless.

If you were the owner, would you be happy to make less than everyone else?

Once again, if ownership of WFNX is happy with what they are making, then the 12+ ratings don't matter.

I can't imagine they're happy.

Anyone venture to guess the value of WFNX these days?

The last station we have any numbers on were WCRB/WKLB 102.5. ...and that was somewhere on the 85-95 million range for a full signal.

Anyone have any insight as to what WFNX is worth these days....knowing that it is not a full signal?

Based upon what Entercom paid for 97.7 (30-35 million) I'd say that WFNX is worth at least that much...They are highly directional, but that's offset by their downtown location.

Mindich paid about a million for WFNX and that note was paid off decades ago. WFNX is like money in the bank for him that earns GREAT interest, and benefits the newspaper in the process...

 

[ciao99]

You guys don't get it. This topic has been BEATEN INTO THE GROUND several times. WFNX has, is, and will not ever be about ratings. It just isn't what the station's "in tuned" to. But yet another topic about it pops up every week. Like someone on this board said, if ratings equaled the amount of time you guys talked about this station they would be off the charts. LOL

I can accept what you say, that " WFNX has, is, and will not ever be about ratings".
But it it's not about the ratings, why is the station so cautious with its playlist? Outside of specialty shows, the playlist is tried and true commercial hits from well known artists. I have to point out, the station had higher ratings when it's playlist had balls.

 

[inthewolf]

Wow. It has been a few weeks, I thought the FNX bashers maybe took a summer vacation. Clearly staying in mom's basement and posting on this board is far more exciting than say Bermuda or the Virgin Islands.

Welcome back Ciao and Ex Radio pimp. Its been awhile!

Anyway, maybe I should explain how trends work to everyone. Trends are a rolling average. Its three months of the book not the actual book. As we all know (see various posts on How FNX Sucks from the winter) the FNX winter book was pretty iffy. Keep in mind that this trend still includes a month from the winter book. This trend was March / April / May. March is from the winter book. You can likely assume that March was a terrible month for FNX. Call me crazy but the monthlies are much more important than the actual trend number.

Also, as one of the non "FNX hating for no reason" posters said its all about the demo breakouts. So, besides what you see posted on R&R, the 18-34 April and May numbers are the most important. Will FNX have a 1.0 in the spring book..i wouldn't bet on it but yes the station is making money and yes the 18-34 numbers are what really matters.

3 more things..

1) None of this will matter come next March because every month will be a rating when the people meter hits. So the insanity of the trends will be done.

2) Ciao, FNX played all new local music this weekend. Maybe instead of bashing you should take a listen every once in awhile. I think you would have been very happy with what you heard. Im not sure if they played Peter Gabriel though. I know without your Gabriel fix you get mad so hopefully they threw you a Sledgehammer or Big Time at some point.

3) Ex Radio Pimp. I think you are a liar and that you actually still work at FNX. You seem to know more thats going on there than anyone else. You should really introduce yourself to Special Ed. I think you guys would get along great.

 

[Chow]

I want so bad to play on this topic but of course I am an FNX apologist. As the original poster mentioned the 12+ trend is down, however it could be more of a correction from FNX having 12+ #'s above a 1. Seriously the station has never really done well and for some reason people think since they brought in a new morning show and made staff changes the ratings should go through the roof.

I don't understand why so many people hate the station. I can't wait for the day after we get La Fiesta 102, this board will be full of "why can't get a good local station in town" comments. I'm sure if the FNX owners wanted to increase profits (like CC) they could voice track middays, nights, and weekends. Then we'd get the why is FNX so cheap comments, and Ex Radio Pimp would be finally out of a job. Really there is nothing the station can do to please the basement dwellers. My advice to FNX: keep doing what you're doing oh and listen to my demo someday (The Hurricane) and to everyone else relax! It's only a radio station.

 

[aaronread]

But it it's not about the ratings, why is the station so cautious with its playlist? Outside of specialty shows, the playlist is tried and true commercial hits from well known artists. I have to point out, the station had higher ratings when it's playlist had balls.

True, but...assuming you're referring to the early 1990's WFNX...it was also a different era of radio listening in general. Webcasting didn't exist, neither did iPods and MP3's on cellphones. At that time they could afford to be really experimental with their playlist because it was still attracting the younger audience; that audience had little alternatives to turn to for their music. Then WFNX tried to go in head-to-head competition with WBCN. Maybe they saw the handwriting on the wall with MP3's, but regardless, it was an ill-fated move. WBCN just had way more resources and a much better signal (and later, also had Howard Stern). By the time that "competition" ended and WFNX moved more towards being real "alternative" music, the landscape had changed quite a bit. Now I imagine they need to focus more on the older end of that 18-34 demo because the young end isn't listening as much. With that in mind, would you say that WFNX's strategy looks better? I'm no expert on the situation, but it makes some sense to me.

I would also agree that WFNX is probably worth in the $30-$40 million range; that move to downtown probably added $5 mil alone. It's tough to say, though...commercial station sale prices are almost always a function of the station's net revenue (somewhat balanced against gross revenues). The point being that the buyer is going to ask "how much money can I make off the existing product I am buying, in order to make back what I pay to buy it?" If WFNX is doing poorly in revenue, it won't sell for as much in this lousy economy...although I imagine a signal like that would command no less than $20 million even at firesale prices. If their revenue is high, they might get more like $50 million (although I personally would consider that overpaying).

That said, again, we can't overlook the symbiotic relationship WFNX has with the Phoenix. If someone bought one without the other, it would greatly diminish the value of both.

 

[WBIMDJ]

Another thing the FNX bashers tend to forget: as far as ratings go, with regard to their signal and their bigger counterparts, It's not just 'FNX that's doing bad in the ratings, last I heard 'BCN wasn't doing that great either (I think mid 1's, don't quote me) with 5x the signal of 'FNX, as well as 'AAF with TWO signals. Just a little food for thought...what if 'FNX had the signal of those stations and vice versa...It's the same thing with Indie in LA...they get 0.5's but get voted best station in the nation by Rolling Stone...

 

[rapking]

ALL BOSTON ROCK STATIONS, SUCK so BAD !!!!!!!! THANK GOD WHJY and WBRU from Providence, cover the south shore area !!!!!

 

[ex radio pimp]

Wow. It has been a few weeks, I thought the FNX bashers maybe took a summer vacation. Clearly staying in mom's basement and posting on this board is far more exciting than say Bermuda or the Virgin Islands.

Welcome back Ciao and Ex Radio pimp. Its been awhile!

Anyway, maybe I should explain how trends work to everyone. Trends are a rolling average. Its three months of the book not the actual book. As we all know (see various posts on How FNX Sucks from the winter) the FNX winter book was pretty iffy. Keep in mind that this trend still includes a month from the winter book. This trend was March / April / May. March is from the winter book. You can likely assume that March was a terrible month for FNX. Call me crazy but the monthlies are much more important than the actual trend number.

Also, as one of the non "FNX hating for no reason" posters said its all about the demo breakouts. So, besides what you see posted on R&R, the 18-34 April and May numbers are the most important. Will FNX have a 1.0 in the spring book..i wouldn't bet on it but yes the station is making money and yes the 18-34 numbers are what really matters.

3 more things..

1) None of this will matter come next March because every month will be a rating when the people meter hits. So the insanity of the trends will be done.

2) Ciao, FNX played all new local music this weekend. Maybe instead of bashing you should take a listen every once in awhile. I think you would have been very happy with what you heard. Im not sure if they played Peter Gabriel though. I know without your Gabriel fix you get mad so hopefully they threw you a Sledgehammer or Big Time at some point.

3) Ex Radio Pimp. I think you are a liar and that you actually still work at FNX. You seem to know more thats going on there than anyone else. You should really introduce yourself to Special Ed. I think you guys would get along great.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm not lying and Ed knows exactly who I am and no I don't still work there.

Didn't I just say that the ratings don't matter to them? Isn't that what everyone says? I didn't say anything negative about them yet I get called a liar. Way to be champ.

Don't have so much fait in the PPM, it's unpopular and flawed and the only thing it might really accomplish is the firing of all Jocks everywhere.