WGN 720 Transmitter Site Rebuild

[RF101]

WGN radio towers annexed into Elk Grove, with data centers and pickleball courts to come

Long an unincorporated neighbor, WGN radio's transmitter site is the newest corporate citizen of Elk Grove Village under the 102-acre property annexation approved by village trustees Tuesday. But the...

www.dailyherald.com

Key quote.."The primary 750-foot communications tower, and its 250-foot backup, will be demolished, replaced and relocated slightly to the north. The satellite office housing radio equipment and a garage with landscaping equipment will remain intact."

Congrats to writer Chris Placek of the Daily Herald for filing this story on 7/19/2023 5:30 AM.

 

[davideduardo]

WGN radio towers annexed into Elk Grove, with data centers and pickleball courts to come

Long an unincorporated neighbor, WGN radio's transmitter site is the newest corporate citizen of Elk Grove Village under the 102-acre property annexation approved by village trustees Tuesday. But the...

www.dailyherald.com

Key quote.."The primary 750-foot communications tower, and its 250-foot backup, will be demolished, replaced and relocated slightly to the north. The satellite office housing radio equipment and a garage with landscaping equipment will remain intact."

Congrats to writer Chris Placek of the Daily Herald for filing this story on 7/19/2023 5:30 AM.

Nicely written story, considering that newspapers don't usually get facts about radio straight.

 

[MarkW]

Once the towers are rebuilt, hopefully coverage is on par with the station's current excellent coverage.

When 780 WBBM co-located at the WSCR site, signal strength in western lower Michigan (yes, I realize WBBM doesn't pull one penny of ad revenue from that region) suffered.

 

[Greg Strickland]

Personally, I have total respect and confidence in WGN engineering leadership and their consulting engineer.
Professionally, I suggest making a distinction between a sufficiently efficient antenna system and objects in the vicinity.

I think the engineers might say there is a point of diminishing returns with respect to total area and radius of the antenna ground plane system. They can predict the impact of objects beyond the ground plane.

When it comes to electromagnetic wave propagation, there is nearly always "something in the way". And if there is not, you are probably located in an area with fewer business and personal opportunities. Sometimes challenges and hassles go hand in hand with maximum opportunity.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Once the towers are rebuilt, hopefully coverage is on par with the station's current excellent coverage.

When 780 WBBM co-located at the WSCR site, signal strength in western lower Michigan (yes, I realize WBBM doesn't pull one penny of ad revenue from that region) suffered.

There are thousands of the most influential people in business and politics in Chicago who have second homes along the Eastern shore of Lake Michigan in Berrien, VanBuren, and Allegan Counties. Being able to hear WBBM well there gives advertisements more exposure than they would otherwise have. They may not have advertisements from local businesses on Michigan's shoreline, but it gives increased impact to those influential, decision making people. They are never out of range of Chicago Broadcasting, AM, FM, or TV. I visited one of those residents, and had a small portable TV with me. At least in the analog days, many Chicago TV stations were crystal clear across the Lake, with just the telescoping rod antenna. The clearest was WFLD 32.

Plug Zip Code 49106 Bridgman, MI into V-Soft Zip Code, and you'll see that the WBBM signal now lags behind WSCR, WGN, and WLS in the Daytime.

Zip Code Signal | V-Soft Communications Propagation & FCC Allocation Software Broadcast/RF

www.v-soft.com

 

[MarkW]

Near the shoreline, I suspect reception is still OK despite being not as strong as before. Lake Michigan definitely helps groundwave propagation.

 

[Greg Strickland]

.... Lake Michigan definitely helps groundwave propagation.

Broadly speaking I agree. But maybe not because it is wet.

 

[Miss Tuned]

Big Pickleball wins again! Is there any piece of land they won't take over?

In all seriousness, moving a 750' tower and all its associated stuff can't come cheap. Presumably the money they're getting for the land is considerably more than the cost of moving the tower. How will they stay on air during the move? I assume it won't be a quick job.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Broadly speaking I agree. But maybe not because it is wet.

Pure water has very low conductivity. Ionic salts from large cities and industrial effluent make Lake Michigan, Lake Erie, and Lake Ontario conductivities substantially higher than Lake Superior, though not nearly as conductive as Oceans and the highest of all, Great Salt Lake. Inland lakes, such as Crystal Lake near Frankfort, are much less in conductivity than the Great Lakes and Lake St. Clair. Pristine lakes in the Midwest have near zero conductivity.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Big Pickleball wins again! Is there any piece of land they won't take over?

In all seriousness, moving a 750' tower and all its associated stuff can't come cheap. Presumably the money they're getting for the land is considerably more than the cost of moving the tower. How will they stay on air during the move? I assume it won't be a quick job.

I think they are leaving the auxiliary antenna up until the tower has been moved. The signal will be less than the main tower, but still there. Those influential Chicago people's retreats in Michigan may notice a falloff in the signal. In Genesee County, I used to hear WMAQ 670 on 10000 watt AUX, but WAIT 820 with 5000 watts with a very efficient antenna in Elmhurst, was stronger than the WMAQ AUX.

 

[Miss Tuned]

I think they are leaving the auxiliary antenna up until the tower has been moved. The signal will be less than the main tower, but still there. Those influential Chicago people's retreats in Michigan may notice a falloff in the signal. In Genesee County, I used to hear WMAQ 670 on 10000 watt AUX, but WAIT 820 with 5000 watts with a very efficient antenna in Elmhurst, was stronger than the WMAQ AUX.

There's a 1,050' TV and FM tower near where I lived until recently. They had to do some major surgery on the antennas, something to do with refarming part of the TV spectrum for 4G and 5G that meant the antennas had to be changed to a new frequency. To get this done, they have built a second tower next to the original one. It's been there for several years now, while work is ongoing on the main tower. You can see the temporary aux facility on the left, and the original on the right. Hugely expensive for a technology (OTA TV broadcast, and regional FM) that may be redundant within a decade.

 

[Greg Strickland]

Interestingly, what we detect with our natural senses does not tell the whole story about electromagnetic wave propagation.
A radio wave can "move" through what appears to us as nothing. Yet a box with copper walls one millimeter thick will essentially prevent a 1 GHz radio wave from entering it.

"It's magic" is perhaps the most benign interpretation of a phenomenon not understood.

And as Schrödinger's cat said, it is not the water. It is what is in it. And a cat that does not exist in the physical world is discussing...

 

[fybush]

There are thousands of the most influential people in business and politics in Chicago who have second homes along the Eastern shore of Lake Michigan in Berrien, VanBuren, and Allegan Counties. Being able to hear WBBM well there gives advertisements more exposure than they would otherwise have. They may not have advertisements from local businesses on Michigan's shoreline, but it gives increased impact to those influential, decision making people. They are never out of range of Chicago Broadcasting, AM, FM, or TV. I visited one of those residents, and had a small portable TV with me. At least in the analog days, many Chicago TV stations were crystal clear across the Lake, with just the telescoping rod antenna. The clearest was WFLD 32.

Plug Zip Code 49106 Bridgman, MI into V-Soft Zip Code, and you'll see that the WBBM signal now lags behind WSCR, WGN, and WLS in the Daytime.

Zip Code Signal | V-Soft Communications Propagation & FCC Allocation Software Broadcast/RF

www.v-soft.com

It's 2023. If those wealthy and influential people are listening to Chicago radio at all from their lakefront homes in Michigan, they're doing it on a smart speaker. They're not using an AM radio.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

That phenomenon of zero field inside a metal enclosed space is used to make what is called a Faraday Cage. They are not perfect, and have to be nearly completely enclosed to be effective. People call a poorly designed attempt to construct one from aluminum foil a "tinfoil hat", and have much derision for the people who try to use them, associating them with "conspiracy theorists". Tinfoil hats are typically nearly hemispherical and cause standing waves inside, not zero fields inside. The people who understand hard science are not amused. A real world Faraday Cage will allow some radio waves inside with the door open, but nearly none with the door closed.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

It's 2023. If those wealthy and influential people are listening to Chicago radio at all from their lakefront homes in Michigan, they're doing it on a smart speaker. They're not using an AM radio.

Smart speakers aren't geniuses though, and are only as good as the WiFi connection. Trees and hills can block the signals, and WiFi drop outs are quite common, many with daily interruptions and limited data usage allowances in many areas.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Smart speakers aren't geniuses though, and are only as good as the WiFi connection. Trees and hills can block the signals, and WiFi drop outs are quite common, many with daily interruptions and limited data usage allowances in many areas.

WiFi dropouts are not common, certainly not daily, and usually are the fault of the cable company or electric utility rather than the WiFi equipment itself.

WiFi is distance limited, but generally smart speakers are not designed to be portable (no handles and heavy), so you just set it up somewhere it works well.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

WiFi dropouts are not common, certainly not daily, and usually are the fault of the cable company or electric utility rather than the WiFi equipment itself.

WiFi is distance limited, but generally smart speakers are not designed to be portable (no handles and heavy), so you just set it up somewhere it works well.

In small towns and rural areas, and certain satellite providers, dropouts and data limitations are common. Cable internet connections from major carriers fail more than they will admit.

AM radio, and strong FM signals are very portable. Analog TV was portable, digital TV is not. Powerful AM signals are great on the roads. I just saw a sign on an expressway for a full Class C1 at locally high elevation that said "W*** **.5 next 120 miles. In most directions, that's fairly accurate. Certainly in that particular expressway corridor.

 

[fybush]

Any "prominent politician or leader" with enough money to afford a vacation home on the Michigan shore can surely afford a good high-speed internet connection, whether cable or fiber, and a good home router system to supply strong WiFi throughout their property. No dropouts, and if there's a storm strong enough to knock out the internet, it's going to make AM unlistenable too.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

I would like to know what Internet provider you're referring to. The best we've had was a wireless internet service with no slowdowns or data limits. The Township Supervisor told the provider that cable was coming, which wasn't true, and the wireless provider turned off our wireless tower to save money. It's been downhill ever since, and had to sign up for two years with our only other option, a satellite provider.

 

[fybush]

It's a very big country. I have no idea where exactly you're located or what the specifics of your wireless internet provider might or might not be.

I am saying there's no way any "powerful politician or businessman" in 2023 is going to function for long, even at a vacation home, without internet service that allows them to do all the things we all need to do remotely these days, whether it's zoom calls or streaming video or what have you.

Starlink has become an extremely viable option for that purpose and it works anywhere you can see the sky. The three big wireless phone carriers will all sell you fixed links with data service that can replace wired home internet where it's insufficient or nonexistent. I'm seriously contemplating ditching Spectrum wired service where I am in favor of VZ or T 5G fixed.

Is there a modern-day titan of industry in his million-dollar lakefront mansion really futzing around with an AM radio to pull in 720 or 780 from across the lake to listen through 8 minutes of spots for a news headline? I suppose it's possible, but it seems highly unlikely to me in this century.