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WGN Does IBUZ - WGCI-FM Throws a Party

R

RichWood

Finally, a sure fire test! The #1 station in the #3 market that's one tenth of a point ahead of a rival. If one year from now we see WGCI-FM taking the lead in two or more consecutive books we'll have a nearly sure-fire indication that IBUZ is destructive even to stations using it. WGN has a 5.3 share 12+ against WGCI-FM's 5.2. Both stations have swapped the #1 position for a book every once in a while, so WGN has a serious threat to its market position.

I worked as PD at Tribune's WPIX-FM, New York, (now WQCD)when WGCI-FM first overtook WGN. The company was shocked. Surely this wasn't possible.

Reports are coming in that WGN's previously high quality analog audio is gone. There's word that the hissing we've heard about is there. As a programmer I see this as a perfect test to see how IBUZ affects TSL and, as a result, a station's Average Quarter Hour. That's what directly affects revenue. As I've said elsewhere, if IBUZ damages the revenue of the #1 station in the #3 market (formerly the highest billing station in the nation) we'll see IBUZ die faster than an armadillo on a Texas highway.

Watch WGN's ratings over the next 4-5 rating books. Full books, not rolling averages. I can't help but imagine that WGCI-FM is getting ready to dominate the market continuously. It's party time at 107.5. This may be why Clear Channel likes IBUZ so much - a chance to own the #1 position in Chicago without sharing. Unless, of course, IBUZ artifacts on FM damage WGCI. This is the battle to watch.

Rich
 
What does IBOC have to do with the price of Bacon??

> Finally, a sure fire test! The #1 station in the #3 market
> that's one tenth of a point ahead of a rival. If one year
> from now we see WGCI-FM taking the lead in two or more
> consecutive books we'll have a nearly sure-fire indication
> that IBUZ is destructive even to stations using it. WGN has
> a 5.3 share 12+ against WGCI-FM's 5.2. Both stations have
> swapped the #1 position for a book every once in a while, so
> WGN has a serious threat to its market position.
>
> I worked as PD at Tribune's WPIX-FM, New York, (now
> WQCD)when WGCI-FM first overtook WGN. The company was
> shocked. Surely this wasn't possible.
>
> Reports are coming in that WGN's previously high quality
> analog audio is gone. There's word that the hissing we've
> heard about is there. As a programmer I see this as a
> perfect test to see how IBUZ affects TSL and, as a result, a
> station's Average Quarter Hour. That's what directly affects
> revenue. As I've said elsewhere, if IBUZ damages the revenue
> of the #1 station in the #3 market (formerly the highest
> billing station in the nation) we'll see IBUZ die faster
> than an armadillo on a Texas highway.
>
> Watch WGN's ratings over the next 4-5 rating books. Full
> books, not rolling averages. I can't help but imagine that
> WGCI-FM is getting ready to dominate the market
> continuously. It's party time at 107.5. This may be why
> Clear Channel likes IBUZ so much - a chance to own the #1
> position in Chicago without sharing. Unless, of course, IBUZ
> artifacts on FM damage WGCI. This is the battle to watch.
>
> Rich
>
Rich,

Now this is a stretch! How could/can you blame IBOC for WGN gaining or slipping a share or two?? Or IBOC for WGCI gaining a share or two?
I've heard the analog portion of AM IBOC. The audio is pristine....the adjacent channels are busy as hell, but the main channel sounds great!!
Isn't WGCI running IBOC(Oh....the humanity!!)Is that going to doom them to AQH,Cume,TSL slippage?
You're a smart guy but you're really missing the boat here guy!
 
Re: What does IBOC have to do with the price of Bacon??

> Now this is a stretch! How could/can you blame IBOC for WGN
> gaining or slipping a share or two?? Or IBOC for WGCI
> gaining a share or two?
> I've heard the analog portion of AM IBOC. The audio is
> pristine....the adjacent channels are busy as hell, but the
> main channel sounds great!!
> Isn't WGCI running IBOC(Oh....the humanity!!)Is that going
> to doom them to AQH,Cume,TSL slippage?
> You're a smart guy but you're really missing the boat here
> guy!

What's your programming and rating analysis experience? I think I'll rely on my knowledge of programming. I see a perfect test here. I couldn't ask for better.

Rich
 
Re: What does IBOC have to do with the price of Bacon??

> Now this is a stretch! How could/can you blame IBOC for WGN
> gaining or slipping a share or two?? Or IBOC for WGCI
> gaining a share or two?
> I've heard the analog portion of AM IBOC. The audio is
> pristine....the adjacent channels are busy as hell, but the
> main channel sounds great!!

I think you misunderstood Rich's point. He's not talking about WGN's past performance. He's anxious to see how WGN will perform in the future now that its IBOC is on.

It's my understanding (a lay understanding) that an AM IBOC station takes up 13 to 15 kHz of bandwidth. The middle 5 kHz (or 4.5) is analog, and the digital takes up about 5 kHz on either side of the analog (that's 10-ish of digital total).

Since most table top radios and boom boxes "hear" about 5 to 7.5 kHz of that bandwidth (right down the middle), a good percentage of listeners are going to experience hiss.

And for those with radios that hear 7.5 kHz out to 10 kHz, the hiss will be horrible. (PLUS... those are the listeners who are used to high quality AM signals, cuz, let's face it, 7.5 to 10 kHz analog signals--on radios that can hear them--sound pretty darned good.)

So here we go... What percentage of WGN's listenership listens on radios with default bandwidth settings of between 5 and 10 kHz? And of THOSE listeners, how many will tolerate the hiss, complain about it, or simply change the channel because they think they're in a bad reception area? And how many invested a good bit of money in their analog radios only to be told by a big corporation that they now need to spend even more money on yet another radio? Happy times.

It's much more of a gamble than Jeff Littlejohn told his bosses at ClearChannel. And now the industry has followed the lemming-in-chief off the cliff. Of course, Littlejohn told his bosses that radios simply don't hear anything outside of 5 kHz anymore. Well... errr... we're about to find out!
 
Re: What does IBOC have to do with the price of Bacon??

> It's my understanding (a lay understanding) that an AM IBOC
> station takes up 13 to 15 kHz of bandwidth. The middle 5
> kHz (or 4.5) is analog, and the digital takes up about 5 kHz
> on either side of the analog (that's 10-ish of digital
> total).
_____________

The HD digital carriers on hybrid analog AM occupy the spectra from a bit over 10 kHz to ~15 kHz above and below the analog carrier. That leaves the spectrum +/-10kHz from the analog carrier available for analog AM sidebands.

The total r-f bandwidth available for a hybrid HD+AM station is about 30 kHz.
 
Re: What does IBOC have to do with the price of Bacon??

There is digital right in there with the analog. You are not supposed to hear it because the digital above and below the carrier is supposed to be out of phase to cancel each other out on the analog reception. The problem comes with what I call IBOC multipath. Get downtown Chicago among the high rises and all that reflective steel, and you will get out of phase signals and you WILL hear some of that hiss on your analog radio even if it has 3 khz audio bandwidth. I've heard it alot and most people will just think its power line noise. But the station will be hurt especially TSL will be hurt.



> > It's my understanding (a lay understanding) that an AM
> IBOC
> > station takes up 13 to 15 kHz of bandwidth. The middle 5
> > kHz (or 4.5) is analog, and the digital takes up about 5
> kHz
> > on either side of the analog (that's 10-ish of digital
> > total).
> _____________
>
> The HD digital carriers on hybrid analog AM occupy the
> spectra from a bit over 10 kHz to ~15 kHz above and below
> the analog carrier. That leaves the spectrum +/-10kHz from
> the analog carrier available for analog AM sidebands.
>
> The total r-f bandwidth available for a hybrid HD+AM station
> is about 30 kHz.
>
 
Re: What does IBOC have to do with the price of Bacon??

> There is digital right in there with the analog. You are
> not supposed to hear it because the digital above and below
> the carrier is supposed to be out of phase to cancel each
> other out on the analog reception. (snip)
_____________

You might want to check this belief against the transmitted r-f spectum shown for hybrid HD+AM at...

"http://www.broadcastsignallab.com/Evaluating Emissions of IBOC Transmitter.pdf"

You'll have to copy and paste this link into your web browser, minus the quotes. For some reason the R-I board strips the pads from it, and the link won't work that way.
______________

>
>
> > > It's my understanding (a lay understanding) that an AM
> > IBOC
> > > station takes up 13 to 15 kHz of bandwidth. The middle
> 5
> > > kHz (or 4.5) is analog, and the digital takes up about 5
>
> > kHz
> > > on either side of the analog (that's 10-ish of digital
> > > total).
> > _____________
> >
> > The HD digital carriers on hybrid analog AM occupy the
> > spectra from a bit over 10 kHz to ~15 kHz above and below
> > the analog carrier. That leaves the spectrum +/-10kHz
> from
> > the analog carrier available for analog AM sidebands.
> >
> > The total r-f bandwidth available for a hybrid HD+AM
> station
> > is about 30 kHz.
> >
>
 
Re: What does IBOC have to do with the price of Bacon??

> > Now this is a stretch! How could/can you blame IBOC for
> WGN
> > gaining or slipping a share or two?? Or IBOC for WGCI
> > gaining a share or two?
> > I've heard the analog portion of AM IBOC. The audio is
> > pristine....the adjacent channels are busy as hell, but
> the
> > main channel sounds great!!
> > Isn't WGCI running IBOC(Oh....the humanity!!)Is that going
>
> > to doom them to AQH,Cume,TSL slippage?
> > You're a smart guy but you're really missing the boat here
>
> > guy!
>
> What's your programming and rating analysis experience? I
> think I'll rely on my knowledge of programming. I see a
> perfect test here. I couldn't ask for better.
>
> Rich
>
I will not compare my expertise on ratings to yours.....that is your job - not mine.
But.....you are smart enough to know better, Rich! There are any of a million reasons why TSL or AQH males 25-54 may drop or gain. Other threads, and yourself, have eluded to the fact that PROGRAMMING is the real issue for 21st century terrestial radio. The technical issues are important to practically no one except those in the industry and a few DXers.
WGCI is IBOC.....right? Using your logic, the playing field is level.
 
> It's much more of a gamble than Jeff Littlejohn told his
> bosses at ClearChannel. And now the industry has followed
> the lemming-in-chief off the cliff. Of course, Littlejohn
> told his bosses that radios simply don't hear anything
> outside of 5 kHz anymore. Well... errr... we're about to
> find out!

It appears I'm going to be censored, so this may be among the last of my posts. As a non radio person you've grasped the serious risks WGN is taking against very serious competition.

In this forum the cheerleaders have the upper hand. Before I get thrown off, I need to suggest that everyone needs to watch the ratings position of WGN and WGCI-FM over the next year. Preferably 5 full books. It's truly the perfect test of IBUZs affect on listening patterns even if engineers can't grasp how response, distortion and processing affects listener fatigue and TSL.

Based on years of programming and rating analysis I'll bet WGN will lose its position to WGCI-FM over the next year.

If you don't see me here again. It's been a nice run. I now turn the horizontal and the vertical back to the cheerleaders.

Rich
 
> > It's much more of a gamble than Jeff Littlejohn told his
> > bosses at ClearChannel. And now the industry has followed
>
> > the lemming-in-chief off the cliff. Of course, Littlejohn
>
> > told his bosses that radios simply don't hear anything
> > outside of 5 kHz anymore. Well... errr... we're about to
> > find out!
>
> It appears I'm going to be censored, so this may be among
> the last of my posts. As a non radio person you've grasped
> the serious risks WGN is taking against very serious
> competition.
>
> In this forum the cheerleaders have the upper hand. Before I
> get thrown off, I need to suggest that everyone needs to
> watch the ratings position of WGN and WGCI-FM over the next
> year. Preferably 5 full books. It's truly the perfect test
> of IBUZs affect on listening patterns even if engineers
> can't grasp how response, distortion and processing affects
> listener fatigue and TSL.
>
> Based on years of programming and rating analysis I'll bet
> WGN will lose its position to WGCI-FM over the next year.
>
> If you don't see me here again. It's been a nice run. I now
> turn the horizontal and the vertical back to the
> cheerleaders.
>
> Rich
>
Rich-
Stop the drama already!! You are not "about" to get thrown off the board....good Gawd man!!!
Here is my question to you:
How will we quantify the effect IBUZ(your term)has on WGN's performance.What parameters do you predict will be effected and how? I think I can understand the mechanics of ratings as long as you don't use program consultant "fluff" terminology. Give it to us straight without bullsh*t.
I think your assertion is absolutely ridiculous and will not stand the light of day!!!
 
> > It's much more of a gamble than Jeff Littlejohn told his
> > bosses at ClearChannel. And now the industry has followed
>
> > the lemming-in-chief off the cliff. Of course, Littlejohn
>
> > told his bosses that radios simply don't hear anything
> > outside of 5 kHz anymore. Well... errr... we're about to
> > find out!
>
> It appears I'm going to be censored, so this may be among
> the last of my posts. As a non radio person you've grasped
> the serious risks WGN is taking against very serious
> competition.
>
> In this forum the cheerleaders have the upper hand. Before I
> get thrown off, I need to suggest that everyone needs to
> watch the ratings position of WGN and WGCI-FM over the next
> year. Preferably 5 full books. It's truly the perfect test
> of IBUZs affect on listening patterns even if engineers
> can't grasp how response, distortion and processing affects
> listener fatigue and TSL.
>
> Based on years of programming and rating analysis I'll bet
> WGN will lose its position to WGCI-FM over the next year.
>
> If you don't see me here again. It's been a nice run. I now
> turn the horizontal and the vertical back to the
> cheerleaders.
>
> Rich
>

I don't know where you got the idea that you're about to get censored (for the record, and so that you don't get to take the "Cheerleaders ran me out for telling the truth" position, please point everyone to the message here where you were threatened with censorship for your opinions). I said that you need to stop interrupting every single thread with your hatred of all things "IBUZ". I then went on to invite you to start your very own threads here to talk about what you wanted to talk about.

We have a very good policy in place. You don't get banned for having a difference of opinion, you get banned for being a nuisance. You have occasionally chosen to be a nuisance (in your own words, paraphrasing from an earlier post - "I am arrogant").

FWIW, I can't ban you, nor would I want to ban you for having a difference of opinion. There are two people who can, and they are the ones who run the show. Anyone can request that someone be banned, but only they can actually do it.

As much as you hate to hear it, I personally don't care what your opinion is. You disagree with me, and I disagree with you. I've tried to treat you with respect, we've fought, I've even aplogized. All I get from you is that I must be lying because "I work for the man". For some reason, you can't fathom the possibility that anyone could disagree with Rich Wood. Heck, it must be mind control right? No, Rich, could it be that maybe, just possibly, you're wrong about something?

I won't lose sleep if you choose not to post here, but it will be your choice. I don't know about anyone else, but I havd had no intention of asking that you be banned. As a Moderator, I will ask that you do not interrupt threads unless you have something constructive to say. It's the rule that everyone needs to abide by.

Again, start a new post (notice how until now I stayed out of your discussion-it's because I had nothing constructive to add) if you want to discuss the evils of IBUZ, but let others have their discussions.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
WWJ in Detroit has seen its 12+ AQH share slide by a full point between Fall 2004 and Fall 2005. Sure enough, the slide began happening shortly after they began broadcasting IBOC.

It's been well over 5 years since WWJ's ratings have been this low, probably closer to 10 years!

Sadly, 760 WJR is slated to begin IBOC transmissions later this year.

The IBOC hash is almost impossible to eliminate competely ... only my car radio does so. That's just 1 of 2 drawbacks, of course. The other being the fact that the analog signal is now restricted to 5 kHz bandwidth instead of 10 kHz, causing a noticeable degradation in analog audio fidelity.

> Finally, a sure fire test! The #1 station in the #3 market
> that's one tenth of a point ahead of a rival. If one year
> from now we see WGCI-FM taking the lead in two or more
> consecutive books we'll have a nearly sure-fire indication
> that IBUZ is destructive even to stations using it. WGN has
> a 5.3 share 12+ against WGCI-FM's 5.2. Both stations have
> swapped the #1 position for a book every once in a while, so
> WGN has a serious threat to its market position.
>
> I worked as PD at Tribune's WPIX-FM, New York, (now
> WQCD)when WGCI-FM first overtook WGN. The company was
> shocked. Surely this wasn't possible.
>
> Reports are coming in that WGN's previously high quality
> analog audio is gone. There's word that the hissing we've
> heard about is there. As a programmer I see this as a
> perfect test to see how IBUZ affects TSL and, as a result, a
> station's Average Quarter Hour. That's what directly affects
> revenue. As I've said elsewhere, if IBUZ damages the revenue
> of the #1 station in the #3 market (formerly the highest
> billing station in the nation) we'll see IBUZ die faster
> than an armadillo on a Texas highway.
>
> Watch WGN's ratings over the next 4-5 rating books. Full
> books, not rolling averages. I can't help but imagine that
> WGCI-FM is getting ready to dominate the market
> continuously. It's party time at 107.5. This may be why
> Clear Channel likes IBUZ so much - a chance to own the #1
> position in Chicago without sharing. Unless, of course, IBUZ
> artifacts on FM damage WGCI. This is the battle to watch.
>
> Rich
>
 
> Finally, a sure fire test! The #1 station in the #3 market
> that's one tenth of a point ahead of a rival. If one year
> from now we see WGCI-FM taking the lead in two or more
> consecutive books we'll have a nearly sure-fire indication
> that IBUZ is destructive even to stations using it. WGN has
> a 5.3 share 12+ against WGCI-FM's 5.2. Both stations have
> swapped the #1 position for a book every once in a while, so
> WGN has a serious threat to its market position.
>
> I worked as PD at Tribune's WPIX-FM, New York, (now
> WQCD)when WGCI-FM first overtook WGN. The company was
> shocked. Surely this wasn't possible.
>
> Reports are coming in that WGN's previously high quality
> analog audio is gone. There's word that the hissing we've
> heard about is there. As a programmer I see this as a
> perfect test to see how IBUZ affects TSL and, as a result, a
> station's Average Quarter Hour. That's what directly affects
> revenue. As I've said elsewhere, if IBUZ damages the revenue
> of the #1 station in the #3 market (formerly the highest
> billing station in the nation) we'll see IBUZ die faster
> than an armadillo on a Texas highway.
>
> Watch WGN's ratings over the next 4-5 rating books. Full
> books, not rolling averages. I can't help but imagine that
> WGCI-FM is getting ready to dominate the market
> continuously. It's party time at 107.5. This may be why
> Clear Channel likes IBUZ so much - a chance to own the #1
> position in Chicago without sharing. Unless, of course, IBUZ
> artifacts on FM damage WGCI. This is the battle to watch.
>
> Rich
>

Stretching again Rich!

You want an example of a staiton going HD?

WTMJ-AM 620 Milwaukee has been HD for over a year. Huh they are still number one, yet they are HD?? How could that be???? According to your hypothesis, people would be leaving on droves. That doesnt seem to be happening Rich. What is your explanation for that?

Time to open your eyes to a possibility that you are wrong. But then again, Rich Wood could NEVER be wrong. And if they disagree with the immortal Rich Wood they are cheerleaders.

Give it up Rich.
 
> The IBOC hash is almost impossible to eliminate competely
> ... only my car radio does so. That's just 1 of 2
> drawbacks, of course. The other being the fact that the
> analog signal is now restricted to 5 kHz bandwidth instead
> of 10 kHz, causing a noticeable degradation in analog audio
> fidelity.
________________

Hybrid HD+analog AM does not have to restrict analog bandwidth to 5 kHz. The HD carriers are placed more than 10 kHz above and below the analog carrier, so the spectrum out to carrier +/- about 10 kHz is available for analog AM sidebands.
 
> > The IBOC hash is almost impossible to eliminate competely
> > ... only my car radio does so. That's just 1 of 2
> > drawbacks, of course. The other being the fact that the
> > analog signal is now restricted to 5 kHz bandwidth instead
>
> > of 10 kHz, causing a noticeable degradation in analog
> audio
> > fidelity.
> ________________
>
> Hybrid HD+analog AM does not have to restrict analog
> bandwidth to 5 kHz. The HD carriers are placed more than 10
> kHz above and below the analog carrier, so the spectrum out
> to carrier +/- about 10 kHz is available for analog AM
> sidebands.
>

The HD Radio specifications allow up to 8kHz with 5kHz being recommended.
 
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