Buffalo WGR to Simulcast on 107.7

[TheBigA]

There will be a huge listener outcry (much like the one that occured when the city of Dallas, TX, tried to take WRR-FM commercial).

Huh? WRR was commercial during the entire time it was run by the city. The city then contracted with non-commercial KERA to operate the station:

WRR Sets New Lineup Following Non-Commercial Conversion Under KERA

KERA and WRR are excited to unveil a new, permanent schedule on WRR 101.1 FM, featuring all classical music, all

radioinsight.com

KERA to manage Dallas-owned classical radio station WRR

The first radio station in Dallas -- Classical WRR -- is under new management by the respected public broadcasters at KERA.

www.fox4news.com

 

[K.M. Richards]

Huh? WRR was commercial during the entire time it was run by the city.

And if Ted wants further verification of that, there is a reference in the history cards that WRR's 1968 and 1971 license renewals required amendments to clarify their "commercial practices and policy"... which would not have been required for a non-comm. Additionally, the original 1946 application called for the FCC to assign a frequency in the then-new FM band "between Ch. #221, 92.1 mcs - Ch. #280, 103.9 mcs". If the City had intended to operate WRR-FM as non-commercial, why would they not have asked for a channel in the newly-created non-comm band?

I'm sorry, Ted, but your memory is becoming faulty more and more often. I have to suggest that you start researching your facts before you post them.

 

[ted chittenden]

Huh? WRR was commercial during the entire time it was run by the city. The city then contracted with non-commercial KERA to operate the station:

WRR Sets New Lineup Following Non-Commercial Conversion Under KERA

KERA and WRR are excited to unveil a new, permanent schedule on WRR 101.1 FM, featuring all classical music, all

radioinsight.com

KERA to manage Dallas-owned classical radio station WRR

The first radio station in Dallas -- Classical WRR -- is under new management by the respected public broadcasters at KERA.

www.fox4news.com

I was thinking of the below story before the KERA purchase.

City Of Dallas Looking For New Management For Classical WRR.

The City of Dallas – Office of Arts and Culture is exploring new management for “Classical 101” WRR Dallas (101.1). The Office says ad revenue declined during the pandemic and

www.insideradio.com

At the time, I remember reading (or hearing though I can't find anything about it now) that the Dallas city council was thinking of swapping WRR-FM's frequency with one of the rimshot stations located north of the city and that caused quite a stir among listeners and supporters (at least moral, if not financial) of the station. Ultimately, as you indicated, it ended with the purchase by North Texas Public Radio and the station going noncommercial (where you correctly told me I was wrong; thanks for the correction).

 

[TheBigA]

Ultimately, as you indicated, it ended with the purchase by North Texas Public Radio

Actually the city still owns the license. NTPB just operates the station.

 

[Mediafrog+]

At the time, I remember reading (or hearing though I can't find anything about it now) that the Dallas city council was thinking of swapping WRR-FM's frequency with one of the rimshot stations located north of the city and that caused quite a stir among listeners and supporters (at least moral, if not financial) of the station.

You are probably thinking of a proposed deal circa 2003-04 that would have involved a three way swap of formats in DFW, with Classical going to a Class C rimshot, the rimshot’s existing R&B format going to a third station (centrally located C2) and that third station’s format going to the superior WRR-FM facility. It would have involved the sale of the WRR-FM Class C signal which could have fetched $100M+ for the City of Dallas as it was during the peak of station market values. I don’t recall if the rimshot that would have picked up the Classical format would have been owned by the city or another party.

Ultimately, as you indicated, it ended with the purchase by North Texas Public Radio and the station going noncommercial

Again, NTPB operates, but does not own WRR-FM, which is still owned by the City of Dallas. The station did change to a non-comm license when NTPB took over programming.

 

[SirRoxalot]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned with WNED-FM is that "The Bridge" broadcasts on their HD2 frequency. We know that management at BTPM is doing their damndest to get somebody to listen to that dreck as well as bring in more money. Perhaps part of the plan is to allow them to add more commercial content to the HD2 as well as the main channel. That content would also run concurrently on "The Bridge" online feed and app without needing any separation of the broadcast. It makes it easier technically and allows for more commercial content.

Everything is for sale if the price is right, but I don't think that BTPM is looking to sell in the short term. A year from now, if the $$$ results aren't meaningful, they'll have a better case to present to their supporters to divest. Meanwhile, they continue to push streaming and the simulcast on TV. I'm a little surprised that they haven't also pushed "The Bridge" on an aux TV channel, but that may be an issue with the cost of music rights.

 

[Buddy Shula]

So here’s the deal..the applied for the commercial license to sell spots. Also, they would like to sell it.

 

[Buddy Shula]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned with WNED-FM is that "The Bridge" broadcasts on their HD2 frequency. We know that management at BTPM is doing their damndest to get somebody to listen to that dreck as well as bring in more money. Perhaps part of the plan is to allow them to add more commercial content to the HD2 as well as the main channel. That content would also run concurrently on "The Bridge" online feed and app without needing any separation of the broadcast. It makes it easier technically and allows for more commercial content.

Everything is for sale if the price is right, but I don't think that BTPM is looking to sell in the short term. A year from now, if the $$$ results aren't meaningful, they'll have a better case to present to their supporters to divest. Meanwhile, they continue to push streaming and the simulcast on TV. I'm a little surprised that they haven't also pushed "The Bridge" on an aux TV channel, but that may be an issue with the cost of music rights.

I agree that they may change the format to The Bridge. Certainly an easier sell than Classical.

 

[K.M. Richards]

So here’s the deal..the applied for the commercial license to sell spots. Also, they would like to sell it.

I wonder how many times you are going to have to say that before it sinks in with everyone, Buddy.

 

[TheBigA]

I think the only way they sell 94.5 is if they get another signal plus cash in exchange. That's what happened with other commercial classical stations around the country. Why? Because BTPM isn't a for profit company. They're in the membership business. They need a signal for their members. So are there other signals in Buffalo, perhaps in the NCE band, that are available as part of a trade. They might take 107.7 plus some cash in exchange for 94.5. But I don't see them operating with one less signal in Buffalo. That makes no sense in their business model.

Here's an example of how it worked in Boston, with WCRB moving off a strong dial position, taking a weaker signal plus cash, and being sold to WGBH.

Groups Swap Philly, Boston Stations; Beantown Classical Format Moves But Survives

Groups Swap Philly, Boston Stations; Beantown Classical Format Moves But Survives

www.radioworld.com

Here's an example of how commercial classical WQXR in NYC was sold to WNYC as part of a swap plus cash.

WNYC | New York Public Radio, Podcasts, Live Streaming Radio, News

WNYC is America's most listened-to public radio station and the producer of award-winning programs and podcasts like Radiolab, On the Media, and The Brian Lehrer Show.

www.wnyc.org

What happened in each case is the signal for classical is not as good, but the format is preserved. Of course these examples happened at a time when radio signals were way more valuable than they are now.

As far as the switch to commercial, I don't see WNED running traditional :30 spots. What I see them doing is running long form infomercials. That's what a lot of non-com TV stations are doing around the country. Given the current FCC, it's the best way for them to carry infomercials without incurring additional scrutiny from the government.

 

[Mediafrog+]

They need a signal for their members. So are there other signals in Buffalo, perhaps in the NCE band, that are available as part of a trade.

Are there non-comms in Buffalo that could carry Classical on an FMHD subchannel? Here in Houston Classical for the past ten years has been relegated to the HD-2 of Public Radio KUHF. However the HD-2 consistently shows up in the ratings, which is pretty amazing for a HD that doesn’t have a translator. Obviously Classical fans know what an HD radio is and how to use one.

As far as the switch to commercial, I don't see WNED running traditional :30 spots. What I see them doing is running long form infomercials.

Or brokering blocks of time for non-Classical programming. I’ve seen that done in a few markets, though ultimately the Classical format was dropped due to the stations being sold.

 

[TheBigA]

Are there non-comms in Buffalo that could carry Classical on an FMHD subchannel?

BTPM also owns WBFO, so they could put it on the subchannel there. But as others have said, BTPM also runs a AAA format on the subchannel to WNED. They're pretty committed to that AAA format. The situation in Houston was that the university bought another FM for classical, and they were unable to repay the loan for that station. So they were forced to sell it. That was a very different situation from what's happening here.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Here in Houston Classical for the past ten years has been relegated to the HD-2 of Public Radio KUHF. However the HD-2 consistently shows up in the ratings, which is pretty amazing for a HD that doesn’t have a translator. Obviously Classical fans know what an HD radio is and how to use one.

That doesn't surprise me. Going all the way back to when listeners would invest in hi-fi equipment just to listen to that "new radio band" called FM, Classical was a big draw for those listeners. It was a commercially viable format until around the mid-80s, which when there was something akin to a mass exodus of stations exiting the format, often promoting a non-comm in the weeks preceding a format change (in L.A., when KFAC-FM, which had never had any other format in its existence, even donated their library to USC's station).

At the first station I worked for (1973 to 1977) I started on a shift which included "producer" (glorified board-op) of the Saturday edition of a nightly four hour Classical music program on a station which had various flavors of MOR as its regular format. By the time I moved to producing the weeknight version as part of a promotion to full-time status, the station was selling the commercials in the program on an exclusive shared sponsorship basis, complete with a one-sheet (folded) monthly program which was available only by a listener visiting one of the sponsors. And it was always completely sold out.

Less than five years after I moved on, "Great Music To Midnight" was no longer on the schedule.

 

[Kent]

You are probably thinking of a proposed deal circa 2003-04 that would have involved a three way swap of formats in DFW, with Classical going to a Class C rimshot, the rimshot’s existing R&B format going to a third station (centrally located C2) and that third station’s format going to the superior WRR-FM facility. It would have involved the sale of the WRR-FM Class C signal which could have fetched $100M+ for the City of Dallas as it was during the peak of station market values. I don’t recall if the rimshot that would have picked up the Classical format would have been owned by the city or another party.

There were several proposed deals to swap WRR to a rimshot or otherwise lesser signal over the years. Seems like that was something the City of Dallas also explored more recently before working out the deal with NTPB. Seems like most everybody thought it was a bad idea and wouldn't net enough cash. Right after the Telecommunications Act passed, Nationwide offered the city $40 million for the WRR license. The Morning News and Star-Telegram panned the offer with one of them calling it "a classical case of a bad idea." I'm not so sure they'd agree today. I'd think the city would be lucky to get $10 million for WRR, let alone $40 million, today.

I think the only way they sell 94.5 is if they get another signal plus cash in exchange. That's what happened with other commercial classical stations around the country. Why? Because BTPM isn't a for profit company. They're in the membership business. They need a signal for their members. So are there other signals in Buffalo, perhaps in the NCE band, that are available as part of a trade. They might take 107.7 plus some cash in exchange for 94.5. But I don't see them operating with one less signal in Buffalo. That makes no sense in their business model.

That crossed my mind, too. On the one hand, I don't see Audacy ponying up cash for much right now, but getting 94.5 for 107.7 plus a little cash might be worth its while and too good of an opportunity to pass up. I don't think much of anybody else has anything to trade for 94.5 that would be a net positive.

 

[TheBigA]

I don't see Audacy ponying up cash for much right now,

I agree. The thing is it has to be an in-market trade because BTPB is strictly a local broadcaster.

 

[TheBigA]

BTPM CEO Tom Calderone says the company has "no plans to sell WNED:"

Buffalo Toronto Public Media applies to make classical station commercial

The move is part of the station’s efforts to address its loss of CPB funding.

current.org

He explains that selling the station wouldn't be enough to cover the loss of CPB funding.

 

[SirRoxalot]

What's the point in selling 94.5? It's paid for. As long as advertising covers the cost of operation and highbrow donors who support classical music keep ponying up, they may as well keep it. The land under the tower isn't in a place that excites developers and the signal has great reach that allows access to supporters well beyond the metro, many of whom have tenuous internet access. HD2 stations are meaningless to most listeners if they don't feed an FM translator. BTW, classical gets way better ratings in the market than "The Bridge" and prospective younger listeners for that format are more likely to be familiar with listening on an app or via the website. Also, audio quality for "The Bridge" is a lot less of an issue than it is for classical music listeners.

 

[RadioGuy1864]

The only reason to sell now would be the continued decline in value of the station. In ten years it's going to be worth less than it is today, if current industry trends continue. Otherwise, from a cash flow perspective, it pays to hold on to it.

 

[davideduardo]

The only reason to sell now would be the continued decline in value of the station. In ten years it's going to be worth less than it is today, if current industry trends continue. Otherwise, from a cash flow perspective, it pays to hold on to it.

This is the analysis many have made. It compares to the trusts that buy oil wells that are nearing the end of their lives... you get a huge annual percentage return, but after a number of years, the enterprise is worthless. But the income in the meantime is among the highest and safest available.

 

[TheBigA]

The only reason to sell now would be the continued decline in value of the station. In ten years it's going to be worth less than it is today, if current industry trends continue. Otherwise, from a cash flow perspective, it pays to hold on to it.

That's basically what Calderone says. He wouldn't get enough now to cover the loss of federal funding. That's why he says it's not for sale.