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WHAS hiss free?
- Thread starter SUPERCASTER
- Start date
Some of this might sound uncharacteristically mind from "moi" - who has apparently donned the virtual "King of No HD" sable cape - but I really doubt iBiquity and the Alliance had a goal in mind of deliberately interfering with independent broadcasters. First of all, if you were to collectively dose the management at perpetually-arrogant Big Group Radio sodium pentathol and ask what they think of their smaller competitors, they'd spit PATOOEY and dismiss them as non-factors (witness the typical BGR attitude of Guy Wire for one, plus other posters here.) So there's no upside there for them. Secondly, the worst victims of adjacent-channel hissing are...their OWN stations (witness WRVA versus the three 1130s in the midwest, CBS unholy trinity of pink-noise 1010, 1020 and 1030, WWVA vs. WHAM etc.) The situation has been aptly described here and elsewhere as "Mutually assured destruction" (the ghost of Tony Marvin will forgive us the reference.)
Citadel didn't say they wouldn't repair their HD crap, but they HAVE made their analysis of HD-AM clear, and it certainly isn't favorable. It's ludicrous to argue that a hybrid system which can only operate digitally in daytime hours has any future. That's just stupid. It doesn't help any AM broadcaster to be a "digital daytimer," even if the hybrid system worked acceptably when it IS on, which it doesn't. Cox simply turned their HD-AMs off, oddly keeping their iBiquity gear installed but not operating (likely because of legal advice about contractual commitments.)
Back to smaller market stations - the hope that the little guys would move to EXB couldn't have been an Alliance objective for the simple reason the FCC isn't accepting any new-station apps for EXB. Nor is there any prospect they will any time in the forseeable future.
No, it was just arrogance, non-engineering savvy management being bamboozled by a connected, powerful few, short-sightedness and stupid greed (the hope that HD's developers would recoup their investment at the expense of non-Alliance broadcasters - a gentler way of saying, "picking your competitors' pockets.") Now that it's spiraling into the most notorious bomb in radio-industry history (think New Coke and Edsel with transmitter sites) the focus is clearly shifting to the blame-laying and face-saving mode.
The desperately touted digital FM power hike will be entertaining to watch. Pop some popcorn and pull up a comfy chair.
Citadel didn't say they wouldn't repair their HD crap, but they HAVE made their analysis of HD-AM clear, and it certainly isn't favorable. It's ludicrous to argue that a hybrid system which can only operate digitally in daytime hours has any future. That's just stupid. It doesn't help any AM broadcaster to be a "digital daytimer," even if the hybrid system worked acceptably when it IS on, which it doesn't. Cox simply turned their HD-AMs off, oddly keeping their iBiquity gear installed but not operating (likely because of legal advice about contractual commitments.)
Back to smaller market stations - the hope that the little guys would move to EXB couldn't have been an Alliance objective for the simple reason the FCC isn't accepting any new-station apps for EXB. Nor is there any prospect they will any time in the forseeable future.
No, it was just arrogance, non-engineering savvy management being bamboozled by a connected, powerful few, short-sightedness and stupid greed (the hope that HD's developers would recoup their investment at the expense of non-Alliance broadcasters - a gentler way of saying, "picking your competitors' pockets.") Now that it's spiraling into the most notorious bomb in radio-industry history (think New Coke and Edsel with transmitter sites) the focus is clearly shifting to the blame-laying and face-saving mode.
The desperately touted digital FM power hike will be entertaining to watch. Pop some popcorn and pull up a comfy chair.
Would it not quite a bit of money to go from -20 to -10 db below analog in TPO. Did not think that stations which use high level combing of analog and IBOC would have the headroom to increase power 10x from IBOC Linear transmitter ?
Would many stations even have enough headroom to increase to -16db?
Would many stations even have enough headroom to increase to -16db?
Sherry Homme asked,
But don’t worry, it isn’t going to happen. Just check the NPR calculator.
http://www.nprlabs.org/publications/distribution/interimIBOCpowerallowance/index2.php
And don't forget the cost -- and the fact that some of the biggest consolidators are on the brink of bankruptcy!
Yes! Nearly every Class B in New York is part of a first-adjacent pair with a Class B in Philadelphia. If both members of a first-adjacent pair increased their digital signals by 10 dB, they would gain absolutely nothing in digital coverage – and would actually lose some of their present analog coverage in the outlying suburbs in central New Jersey!Are any of these larger broadcasters' signals adjacent, and close enough to feel the effects of the interference from each other on FM?, if that makes sense?
But don’t worry, it isn’t going to happen. Just check the NPR calculator.
http://www.nprlabs.org/publications/distribution/interimIBOCpowerallowance/index2.php
And don't forget the cost -- and the fact that some of the biggest consolidators are on the brink of bankruptcy!
Savage said:No, it was just arrogance, non-engineering savvy management being bamboozled by a connected, powerful few, short-sightedness and stupid greed (the hope that HD's developers would recoup their investment at the expense of non-Alliance broadcasters - a gentler way of saying, "picking your competitors' pockets.")
Had a conversation several weeks ago with someone who purchased an HD-licensed FM station last year in a medium market - and immediately took the digital equipment off the air.
None of his other stations run HD and he has no interest in the system because he sees no ROI. iBiquity has been calling, trying to convince him to put it back on, but he is offended that the major market BGR owners got such a big break on their license fees, but expect him to shell out $25k/station.
A positive unintended consequence of the IBOC mess appears possible, if not likely.
There has been a prevailing stupid and arrogant attitude of top-level radio managers to look disparagingly upon their engineering executives - many of the managers, generally ascending to power through the sales route, look down on air talent (as unproductive egomaniacs) and engineers (they tend to regard them as a kind of "technical janitor.")
Perhaps now that management has ignored the advice of their engineers - decidedly at their peril in the case of HD Radio, where assuredly behind closed doors the unheeded warnings have been that IBOC can't work and will not deliver on its absurd claims - they will find a new respect for the guys and gals who actually have to make things work.
I take a moment to acknowledge the engineers who did their best to stop this disaster but were brushed aside or brusquely told, "yeah, yeah....but we need this. Make it work. And make it snappy."
There has been a prevailing stupid and arrogant attitude of top-level radio managers to look disparagingly upon their engineering executives - many of the managers, generally ascending to power through the sales route, look down on air talent (as unproductive egomaniacs) and engineers (they tend to regard them as a kind of "technical janitor.")
Perhaps now that management has ignored the advice of their engineers - decidedly at their peril in the case of HD Radio, where assuredly behind closed doors the unheeded warnings have been that IBOC can't work and will not deliver on its absurd claims - they will find a new respect for the guys and gals who actually have to make things work.
I take a moment to acknowledge the engineers who did their best to stop this disaster but were brushed aside or brusquely told, "yeah, yeah....but we need this. Make it work. And make it snappy."
Savage said:I take a moment to acknowledge the engineers who did their best to stop this disaster but were brushed aside or brusquely told, "yeah, yeah....but we need this. Make it work. And make it snappy."
I made this argument years ago at the highest levels of my company where I had ready access to not only the DE but the CEO and President as well. HD was welcomed by my successor and forced onto the one that followed him. Now that they have completed their installation on the four FM's in their cluster, spent ungodly sums of money on equipment and doubled their operating expense at one multi station site now requiring four ports instead of two into the combiner, they're beginning to discover I was right. The question becomes who at the top has the juevos to declare it a financial disaster, admit it should come to an end and slam the fist down on the table to order it dismantled? My guess is its whoever buys the cluster from them next, if anyone ever does.
A tip of the hat to Radeo, whose experience I am utterly sure, has been repeated scores of times throughout our industry during the long unhappy HD saga. I personally know of another cluster-CE who was threatened with dismissal if he didn't get behind the HD Radio program.
HD does not reflect one of the radio industry's finest hours. It starkly illustrates the dangers of allowing decisionmaking by people who don't understand what they're doing. And the fallacy of trying to force an unwanted and defective "innovation" on the marketplace, which is the harshest - and most truthful - critic of all.
The HD-pushing nuts have chanted about the "revolution" wrought by digital radio. As has been said of "revolutions:"
"Revolution is impossible...until it becomes inevitable." The only thing inevitable about HD Radio is its overwhelming rejection by the marketplace constituencies - broadcasters, receiver manufacturers, and listeners.
And why? It's just a lousy product. It's outrageously hyped junk engineering cobbled by incompetents and crooks.
Keep pounding those repellent HD on-air promos, Alliance guys. "The quickest way to kill a bad product is to advertise it heavily."
HD does not reflect one of the radio industry's finest hours. It starkly illustrates the dangers of allowing decisionmaking by people who don't understand what they're doing. And the fallacy of trying to force an unwanted and defective "innovation" on the marketplace, which is the harshest - and most truthful - critic of all.
The HD-pushing nuts have chanted about the "revolution" wrought by digital radio. As has been said of "revolutions:"
"Revolution is impossible...until it becomes inevitable." The only thing inevitable about HD Radio is its overwhelming rejection by the marketplace constituencies - broadcasters, receiver manufacturers, and listeners.
And why? It's just a lousy product. It's outrageously hyped junk engineering cobbled by incompetents and crooks.
Keep pounding those repellent HD on-air promos, Alliance guys. "The quickest way to kill a bad product is to advertise it heavily."
"This hiss cheerfully brought to you by the same psychopathic speculators that brought you Wall street swindles, a major recession, failing banks, bankrupt car companies, huge unearned corporate bonuses, foreclosures, homelessness, unemployment, dozens of trillions in national debt, and incalculable misery.
Remember our motto. We'll keep the gold, all others get the shaft."
Remember our motto. We'll keep the gold, all others get the shaft."
SUPERCASTER reminded us:
I thought it was:
"We'll deal with the government, you have enough to worry about (with trying to save your small station from big city AM HD encroachment)".
Remember our motto. We'll keep the gold, all others get the shaft."
I thought it was:
"We'll deal with the government, you have enough to worry about (with trying to save your small station from big city AM HD encroachment)".
I see there's a fight in progress over AM IBOC interference between KFMB in San Diego and KBRT, a Crawford station on Catalina Island. And this is a second-adjacent problem:
http://radioworld.com/article/86140
How could this be happening? We were told repeatedly by the "experts" that IBOC digital not only "meets the mask", but exceeds all legal requirements.
It's unfortunate that so much money and effort is being spent (and goodwill being destroyed) over technology that the public doesn't want.
http://radioworld.com/article/86140
How could this be happening? We were told repeatedly by the "experts" that IBOC digital not only "meets the mask", but exceeds all legal requirements.
It's unfortunate that so much money and effort is being spent (and goodwill being destroyed) over technology that the public doesn't want.
Play Freebird said:I see there's a fight in progress over AM IBOC interference between KFMB in San Diego and KBRT, a Crawford station on Catalina Island. And this is a second-adjacent problem:
http://radioworld.com/article/86140
How could this be happening? We were told repeatedly by the "experts" that IBOC digital not only "meets the mask", but exceeds all legal requirements.
It's unfortunate that so much money and effort is being spent (and goodwill being destroyed) over technology that the public doesn't want.
And why is this a surprise to anyone in the industry? HD AM annihilates 2nd adjacents. We told the Commission this before they approved it, and they ignored us.
audioguy said:Play Freebird said:I see there's a fight in progress over AM IBOC interference between KFMB in San Diego and KBRT, a Crawford station on Catalina Island. And this is a second-adjacent problem:
http://radioworld.com/article/86140
How could this be happening? We were told repeatedly by the "experts" that IBOC digital not only "meets the mask", but exceeds all legal requirements.
It's unfortunate that so much money and effort is being spent (and goodwill being destroyed) over technology that the public doesn't want.
And why is this a surprise to anyone in the industry? HD AM annihilates 2nd adjacents. We told the Commission this before they approved it, and they ignored us.
The FCC ignored virtually everyone's responses except the HD Radio proponents who applied powerful "influence".
Yet the "proof" provided by the HD Radio cartel that HD radio (AM or FM) would work, or was needed was thin to nonexistent, and definitely not impartial.
HD radio deserves to die. It should have never been born.
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