What About Emmis' WQHT?

[TheBigA]

welll actually in the last few books WRKS did better than BLS so I'm not sure syndication is the actual reason. Nonetheless you can't beat local programming which is a dying breed. Hopefully BLS will introduce more community based programming with local talent.

You'd be surprised. Steve Harvey is hugely successful in DC. And Howard Stern was syndicated.

 

[ansky212]

Back in the 90's WBLS used to be called "Power 107.5 WBLS", although I don't recall exactly when they dropped the "Power" moniker. Obviously that is no longer an option as we have Power 105. With the acquisition of the Kiss talent, I think they should use it as an opportunity to create new imaging, while still keeping the WBLS calls. "107.5 WBLS" sounds so mundane. Maybe something like "Magiq 107.5" similar to Atlanta.

although I lived in Europe through most of the 90's I don't remember WBLS ever being Power 107.5 WBLS and I followed urban radio in NY pretty closely. Do you remember what years they might have used that moniker?

WBLS was definitely Power in fall 1996. I remember it specifically because that was when I first moved to the NYC area and it was my favorite station. I even had a keychain with the Power 107.5 WBLS logo on it.

 

[Jeffrey]

Back in the 90's WBLS used to be called "Power 107.5 WBLS", although I don't recall exactly when they dropped the "Power" moniker. Obviously that is no longer an option as we have Power 105. With the acquisition of the Kiss talent, I think they should use it as an opportunity to create new imaging, while still keeping the WBLS calls. "107.5 WBLS" sounds so mundane. Maybe something like "Magiq 107.5" similar to Atlanta.

although I lived in Europe through most of the 90's I don't remember WBLS ever being Power 107.5 WBLS and I followed urban radio in NY pretty closely. Do you remember what years they might have used that moniker?

nice. Hang on to it! I still have a KISS card from back in the 80's. It'll be a collectors item for the selected few that troll radio boards.

WBLS was definitely Power in fall 1996. I remember it specifically because that was when I first moved to the NYC area and it was my favorite station. I even had a keychain with the Power 107.5 WBLS logo on it.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

@ The Big A :

>> 'You'd be surprised. Steve Harvey is hugely successful in DC. And Howard Stern was syndicated.' <<

Not taking that much exception .... and I'm neutral on the guy .... and hoping I'm not that far off-topic, but to my knowledge, Stern never underwent the PPM method of ratings when he was on OTA radio. I have to think that his fan base was comprised of many people who marked a line straight down the diary page. If that were the case, then his current 2012 numbers, if there actually were any, would have taken a notable hit.

Of course, the actual Capitol District grid is, and has been for decades, a largely black community. One would expect Harvey to do well there. (I think I've heard, and enjoyed, more of his stuff than I've heard Sterns', actually : -)

 

[TheBigA]

Of course, the actual Capitol District grid is, and has been for decades, a largely black community. One would expect Harvey to do well there. (I think I've heard, and enjoyed, more of his stuff than I've heard Sterns', actually : -)

The issue here is syndicated vs. local, and the syndicated Steve Harvey show was beating a long time local on the rival urban station. But yes, Harvey is a very good and funny radio talent, which is why his show beats other local hosts.

 

[davideduardo]

...but to my knowledge, Stern never underwent the PPM method of ratings when he was on OTA radio. I have to think that his fan base was comprised of many people who marked a line straight down the diary page. If that were the case, then his current 2012 numbers, if there actually were any, would have taken a notable hit.

Stern had very high TSL on relatively low cume. In the PPM, it's likely that the show would have suffered badly with that type of listening... my best guess is that he would have been 8th to 12th in AQH in both NY and LA.

 

[pjc1961]

Back in the 90's WBLS used to be called "Power 107.5 WBLS", although I don't recall exactly when they dropped the "Power" moniker.  Obviously that is no longer an option as we have Power 105.  With the acquisition of the Kiss talent, I think they should use it as an opportunity to create new imaging, while still keeping the WBLS calls.  "107.5 WBLS" sounds so mundane.  Maybe something like "Magiq 107.5" similar to Atlanta.

although I lived in Europe through most of the 90's I don't remember WBLS ever being Power 107.5 WBLS and I followed urban radio in NY pretty closely. Do you remember what years they might have used that moniker?

WBLS was definitely Power in fall 1996. I remember it specifically because that was when I first moved to the NYC area and it was my favorite station. I even had a keychain with the Power 107.5 WBLS logo on it.

nice. Hang on to it! I still have a KISS card from back in the 80's. It'll be a collectors item for the selected few that troll radio boards.

From the 1:01 to 1:05 minute mark in the video linked below is a frame with Frankie Crocker behind the mic with the mic flag reading "Power 107.5 WBLS" - wish I could give you a date on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt0pNAm8aCI

 

[stationless listener]

I think the problem is that, while the demos of the city have made it necessary that the station formats incorporate urban themes, it seems that the urban sounds and sensitivities have been overcompensated to the point that there is now a slight backlash going on. In the olden days, when hiphop was considered too controversial to air, it did make sense to have a hiphop-themed station, to go along with an R&B station and an urban talk station. Today, much of what used to be top-40 is a rehash of what used to be the Urban Charts that black artists/listeners felt the need to differentiate themselves even further, in order to not sound like a "white" station. Meanwhile, there are a lot of group who would like a station that catered to their tastes but don't have one because the commercial stations are very entrenched on the NYC dial. It took Emmis' financial troubles to force them to let go of WRKS, and then only leasing it because Disney didn't want to buy a physical station.

From listening to the last few days of Kiss FM, the general feeling among the hosts and listeners is that a voice is being denied to the community. Whether you agree with it or not that is how they feel. The fact that it did do good numbers in the last year. It's a very competitive radio landscape, so Kiss FM having the numbers that they had was pretty good. It really sucks that they were made to pay for Emmis' management foibles. But whatchagonnado...

It would now be fodder to think of what can happen with Hot 97. But I think now it's going to be very difficult for Emmis to hold on to 97.1 now that they've sold 101.9 and leased out 98.7.

 

[htowler]

WQHT isn't doing ANYTHING At least until After SummerJam. That in itself probably saved the station this time.

 

[XCountry285]

Honestly, Power really does have Hot's format obviously. It's like that with 92.3 and even with Fresh, PLJ has that format as well. It's about time a lot of these stations flip to formats not served in the NYC Market. It sucks, but that's what it looks like is happening. I personally would never want to lost Hot or PLJ or Power or even Fresh. Maybe Cumulus could buy it but not flip the format because its heritage. I feel if its heritage it should stay.

 

[ansky212]

Honestly, Power really does have Hot's format obviously. It's like that with 92.3 and even with Fresh, PLJ has that format as well. It's about time a lot of these stations flip to formats not served in the NYC Market. It sucks, but that's what it looks like is happening. I personally would never want to lost Hot or PLJ or Power or even Fresh. Maybe Cumulus could buy it but not flip the format because its heritage. I feel if its heritage it should stay.

This is the problem with radio as a business. Owners purposely put the same format on their station to try and "protect" their other stations - like WWPR competing with WQHT to protect WLTW. It's all about ratings and money, and unfortunately, the listener always comes in last in these situations (which is why radio is hurting as people move to the internet and smartphones for their music). This is pretty much why we have one of the most boring radio dials anywhere...
But I agree with the other poster, that there seems to be a bit of a backlash going on. This market is way too top-heavy with the urban and rhythmic formats.

 

[TheBigA]

It's all about ratings and money, and unfortunately, the listener always comes in last in these situations (which is why radio is hurting as people move to the internet and smartphones for their music).

A major factor in ratings is satisfying the listener, so I don't agree that "the listener always comes in last." Ratings aren't just numbers, they're people. What we find is that people may move to the internet and smartphones, but because of the device convenience, not because of dislike of OTA stations or the music they program. The major OTA radio companies are all among the top locations for internet radio users. We also find that urban radio users are among the most loyal audiences to OTA radio, less likely to use other devices.

 

[davideduardo]

Honestly, Power really does have Hot's format obviously. It's like that with 92.3 and even with Fresh, PLJ has that format as well. It's about time a lot of these stations flip to formats not served in the NYC Market.

What if every lower cost car dealer only sold Ford Focus cars and every mid-range one only sold Camrys and every high-end one only sold BMW 5 series vehicles?

That is what you are saying when you object to having more than one station in any format.

Two AC's... several AC variants... two CHR's... several Urban stations... just means that there is enough audience for those formats to sustain multiple entrants and participants. And that is why there is no country station, no dance station, no Spanish language oldies station. Some formats are very viable, some are moderately viable and some will not work in each market.

 

[ansky212]

A major factor in ratings is satisfying the listener, so I don't agree that "the listener always comes in last." Ratings aren't just numbers, they're people.

Just look at the example I provided above with WQHT, WWPR, and WLTW. CC converted WWPR into an urban format to directly try and pull listeners away from WQHT so that WLTW would remain #1 with little competition. A #1 WLTW means big bucks for CC. You're kidding yourself if you think this type of maneuver was for the best interest of the listeners. It's all about fragmenting the audiences of one station to protect the interest of other stations.
Same type of deal with putting NOW on 92.3...to try and pull listeners away from Z100 and KTU. It's not about giving people more choices for CHR (do we really need 3 stations rotating the same 10 songs?). It has actually given them fewer overall choices (no more rock music) and has caused more homogenization of the radio dial.

 

[fang39]

If I worked at any Emmis station right now I would be keeping my options open... and getting my resume and air check in shape.

I think that could be said for anyone working anywhere in the industry, these days.

 

[TheBigA]

You're kidding yourself if you think this type of maneuver was for the best interest of the listeners. It's all about fragmenting the audiences of one station to protect the interest of other stations.

That's what competition is all about. The only solution to that is have all the radio stations in NY owned by one company.

But regardless of the mechanics, it's ultimately up to the people themselves. Radio stations wouldn't do it if people didn't listen. And regardless of what CC does, then CBS comes along with Fresh in an attempt to syphon listeners away from WLTW.

 

[TheBigA]

It's not about giving people more choices for CHR (do we really need 3 stations rotating the same 10 songs?). It has actually given them fewer overall choices (no more rock music) and has caused more homogenization of the radio dial.

It gives the larger groups of people more choices, in that the CHR listeners have several stations to choose from if one is playing a song they don't like, or running commercials. CHR listeners aren't the same as rock listeners, nor are rock listeners as large a group as CHR listeners.

The US radio system has never been about making everyone happy. Did we really need to have WMCA and WABC battling over who played the most Beatles? However, if the commercial system bothers you, there is also the non-commercial system. That was created to provide the choice you speak of.

 

[davideduardo]

Just look at the example I provided above with WQHT, WWPR, and WLTW. CC converted WWPR into an urban format to directly try and pull listeners away from WQHT so that WLTW would remain #1 with little competition.

WWPR was a good move into a sector that Clear was not part of. As a station, it is reasonably successful.

Since WWPR did not take listeners away from WLTW, it expanded the cluster "reach" which is important to advertisers. And since advertising is sold based on Cost Per Point, rates and buys are audience-size based, not 12+ rank based.

And since WQHT appeals to 18-34, and WLTW to 35-54 or 35+the sales aspects of your argument just don't work.

A #1 WLTW means big bucks for CC.

No, a high AQH persons WLTW means big bucks. WWPR, WQHT, etc. don't directly affect the AQH persons of WLTW.

You're kidding yourself if you think this type of maneuver was for the best interest of the listeners.

Any move that attracts more listeners benefits the station's ad rates. And if the move did, in fact, bring in more people to listen, it very obviously benefited listeners.

It's all about fragmenting the audiences of one station to protect the interest of other stations.

No, it is all about attracting the most salable audience for each station and for the cluster. Competing with a station that has lots of audience where, even split, there is a probability of top ratings, is just logical.

Putting on a format that has little probability of getting enough listener support to be attractive to advertisers serves nobody and it will not last.

Same type of deal with putting NOW on 92.3...to try and pull listeners away from Z100 and KTU. It's not about giving people more choices for CHR (do we really need 3 stations rotating the same 10 songs?).

Actually, CHR's tend to have several hundred songs in rotation, although they put high rotations on the hits. And tose "hits" are called that because people who like the format want and expect to hear the big songs every time they tune in.

If you think WKTU and Z100 are the same format, I suggest you actually listen and compare playlists. They are totally separate formats. And NOW came on because there is enough CHR listening to produce several successful stations... as we have seen in other major markets like LA and Chicago.

It has actually given them fewer overall choices (no more rock music) and has caused more homogenization of the radio dial.

"Choices" is a meaningless term if you include formats that can not support themselves with advertising. No AAA? That's due to the small audience core and poor sales as a result. No country? That is the lack of a lifestyle group, poor historical results and changing demographics... all resulting in an inability to sustain profitably a country station.

 

[Morpheux]

It's not about giving people more choices for CHR (do we really need 3 stations rotating the same 10 songs?). It has actually given them fewer overall choices (no more rock music) and has caused more homogenization of the radio dial.

The US radio system has never been about making everyone happy. Did we really need to have WMCA and WABC battling over who played the most Beatles? However, if the commercial system bothers you, there is also the non-commercial system. That was created to provide the choice you speak of.

I have to agree with this statement. As much as I rather hear other formats on commercial radio,truth is that I'm not suffering a bit due to the choices available through new media.I can't remember the last time I heard local radio for more than five minutes in the last year.Even if I do hear local radio it's online with three different players going so as soon as i get bored or commercials come on the stream I pause and play other selections as I wish.

 

[ansky212]

I can't remember the last time I heard local radio for more than five minutes in the last year.

That's exactly my point. I think there are more and more people like you (and me) that are turning to alternatative sources for music due to the homogenization of the radio dial. Let's face it, if you don't like Rhythmic/urban or spanish formatted music then you're not going to find anything appealing on the NY radio dial.