What about the calls?

[tomservo]

Does heritage really matter outside of our geeky radio circles? I think the heritage of WSB on 750 AM outweighs the heritage of WSB on 98.5 FM in my mind. As long as the calls remain somewhere on the FM dial, what's the harm?

 

[Tom Wells]

I don't think CC had to pay the owner of WWVA (AM) in WV for the use of those calls for 105.7. I think all CC had to do was slap on a -FM suffix.

WWVA is a “Capstar” station which IIRC is one of CC’s companies. If you look at the very bottom of the WWVA AM homepage you will see the swirl “C” trademark of CC. By the way there was some talk recently of CC moving the 1170 signal into Cleveland OH. I do not know if CC is going to do it now. They are rebuilding WWVA AM’s 3 tower antenna farm. All three free standing towers were snapped off during a “microburst” several weeks ago.

Didn't WWVA used to be AM 1270 in Gary, Indiana back in the 1960s?
In my head, I still can hear the jingle ",,,On WWVA, here's the latest news!...."

 

[Tom Wells]

Does heritage really matter outside of our geeky radio circles? I think the heritage of WSB on 750 AM outweighs the heritage of WSB on 98.5 FM in my mind. As long as the calls remain somewhere on the FM dial, what's the harm?

Heritage only matters to the people who are paying attention and expect continuity on a particular signal.
Changing call letters is the equivalent of telling your old listeners to go away, as you're decided to divorce yourself from your past
for one reason or another. This is just fine from a business viewpoint, but there will always be people like myself who "remember".
When I hear WMVP, my brain says, "Huh? Oh yeah, that's WCFL...OK" Just like I won't ever be able to forget WWVA in Gary In as noted in the previous post. To me it makes as much sense as re-naming your city, which also doesn't work for me...when I hear "Lake Station, IN", my brain translates and says ..."oh, yeah...East Gary, In ".

 

[davideduardo]

Heritage only matters to the people who are paying attention and expect continuity on a particular signal.

Listeners who use a station want continuity of the programming they enjoy. They really do not care what the station is called; that's why in the diary survey (still used in 80% of markets) most references are to dial position and station name, not call letters.

The exception is among listeners who are in the oldest demographic groups, who became radio users before radio learned to brand the product and used call letters rather than more descriptive or memorable names.

Changing call letters is the equivalent of telling your old listeners to go away, as you're decided to divorce yourself from your past

Keyword: "old." Many stations change the brand or drop calls because the old identity is meaningful only among listeners in unsalable age groups and that identity may be found to have a "station for people older than me" connotation among desirable age groups.

Just like I won't ever be able to forget WWVA in Gary In as noted in the previous post.

WWVA is and has been in Wheeling West VirginA since the begining of time.

 

[davideduardo]

Didn't WWVA used to be AM 1270 in Gary, Indiana back in the 1960s?
In my head, I still can hear the jingle ",,,On WWVA, here's the latest news!...."

WWCA was the call set for 1270 in Gary.

 

[davideduardo]

Does heritage really matter outside of our geeky radio circles? I think the heritage of WSB on 750 AM outweighs the heritage of WSB on 98.5 FM in my mind. As long as the calls remain somewhere on the FM dial, what's the harm?

However, WSB FM has a lot more listeners where it matters, age wise. If the calls are tied to the identity, then they may not want to make such a successful station vulnerable in any way.

Of course, they could do the same as KOB in Albuquerque when they had to change calls and just add a letter... KKOB in that case. WWSB? WSSB? WSBB? WSBF?

 

[Tom Wells]

Didn't WWVA used to be AM 1270 in Gary, Indiana back in the 1960s?
In my head, I still can hear the jingle ",,,On WWVA, here's the latest news!...."

WWCA was the call set for 1270 in Gary.

Thnak you for resetting my brain on that one...it's been quite a few years that station's been gone.

 

[jmtillery]

Does the licensee have to be the actual licensee of record, for example, WKLS would have to use "Citicasters Licenses, Inc." and not "Clear Channel Communications, Inc."? This would affect Q100 as they would have to use "Susquehanna Radio Corp." instead of "Cumulus Media Partners LLC", right?

Inserting the licensee name between call letters and COL are optional and not required. However, should the licensee choose to insert anything between call letters and COL, the licensee name is all that is permitted. Whatever the licensee name of record may be is the licensee name. Ex: WSB-AM is licensed to Cox Radio, Inc. and not Cox Enterprises. Cox Radio, Inc. is the licensee of record which is the name that may be, but not required, inserted bewteen call letters and COL. WKLS is licensed to Citicasters Licenses, Inc. and not Clear Channel Communicatons although Citicasters is a wholly owned subsidiary of Clear Channel Communications, Inc. Therefore Citicasters Licenses, Inc. is the licensee name that may be inserted between "WKLS" and "Atlanta" in the legal ID, and not Clear Channel Communications, Inc. A licensee may include anything before and after the call letters and COL so long as the basic ID - call letters immediately followed by city of license - is followed "to the letter" with the one and only exception as outlined above.

 

[jmtillery]

Also, who "owns" call letters when it comes down to cross-band usage? The oldest user of record?

The call letters always belongs to the original station that were first assigned the call letters so long as said station is still using the call letters in question. EX: WSB, WSB-FM, WSB-TV. In this scenario, WSB AM began broadcast operations first (prior to the FM and the TV) and was assigned the WSB call letters before WSB-FM and WSB-TV. Therefore the WSB call letters belong to WSB AM. If either WSB-FM or WSB-TV were to ever be sold, and Cox refused to share the WSB call letters with the new FM-TV buyer, WSB AM has the first right to the WSB call letters, meaning WSB-FM and WSB-TV would be required to changed each respecitive call letters unless there is an agreement for the disposed stations to keep the same call letters.

In the "old days", whenever a combo which shared the same call letters was split, one of the stations was required to change call letters since the affected stations were no longer commonly owned by the same licensee. Ex: WFLA, WFLA-FM, WFLA-TV Tampa, Florida. When Media General, Inc., which owned all three stations, sold the AM and FM, WFLA-TV was required to changed call letters since WFLA AM was assigned those call letters first. WFLA-TV became WXFL. Later the FCC change it rules to state non-commonly owned AM-FM and TV may share the same call letters so long as the primary station (in the case of WFLA, the AM is the primairy station as it relates to the WFLA call letters) gives written authorization that another station may use the call letters in question so long as the appropriate suffix is added. EX: the call letters WXXX alone may be used on any type facility. However, if multiple facilities are sharing the same call letters, the combinations include WXXX, WXXX-FM, WXXX-TV, WXXX-DT, WXXX-CA, and WXXX-LP (either FM or TV).

 

[electroboy73]

Or they might just think that WBtS, has WSB in it already.

I say just leave it as "WBTS-Doraville". Not only are the calls similar to WSB (WBtS) But, it will still be different enough while not getting confused with WSB-98.5FM. And even if the calls for AM750 and FM95.5 are different. In Augusta, there was News/Talk 580 "WGAC-Augusta" and FM 93.1 "WRFN-Warrenton". (although, they may have changed that too). Oh well....who knows.  :

Hey, at least the Atlanta board is all exciting again.  ;D

 

[Talk_Dude]

Does heritage really matter outside of our geeky radio circles? I think the heritage of WSB on 750 AM outweighs the heritage of WSB on 98.5 FM in my mind. As long as the calls remain somewhere on the FM dial, what's the harm?

No, it does not.

 

[amos]

i'd never heard that network affiliation part of the rule, i think it may be new.

Not new, just not a radio rule. That is a TV rule. Radio does not have the same rule.

the FCC rule i quoted doesn't specify that's a TV only rule.

according to 47 CFR part 73, Radio and Television broadcast rules, Subpart H -- Rules Applicable to All Broadcast Stations, § 73.1201 Station identification.

Provided, That the name of the licensee, the station’s frequency, the station’s channel number, as stated on the station’s license, and/or the station’s network affiliation may be inserted between the call letters and station
location.

this doesn't state it's a tv only rule.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/amfmrule.html

 

[amos]

i can't see them moving WSB-FM from 98.5.11 years is nothing compared to WSB-FM's heritage -- since 1948. (although they were on 104.5 in the beginning)

This is something I didn't know. During what years was WSB-FM on 104.5? And when did WSB-FM move to its present 98.5? Also, do you happen to know the power levels of WSB-FM when it was on 104.5 and its format at the time?

this is from wikipedia:

Following in the footsteps of pioneer WSB-AM, WSB-FM was the first FM station in the Southeast, debuting originally on 104.5 FM in 1948. After Cox acquired the Atlanta Constitution, WSB-FM went silent in 1952, and returned a few years later on 98.5 FM. The station has been an adult contemporary music station since 1980.

also, broadcasting yearbooks (courtesy of david eduardo) stated the operation began in 1948.
according to that, station WBGE-FM Atlanta signed on in june 1947 at 95.5. and WGST-FM Atlanta signed on in october 1947 at 94.1. WSB-TV on channel 8 in 1948 and WSB-FM at 104.3 in 1949 @ 48.5kw. also WCON-FM at 98.5 signed on (according to the 1950 yearbook) in 1948 at 54kw. (wcon-tv was channel 2 and wcon was 550khz), so cox kept channel 2 and 98.5, moved their WSB calls to them, and 550 was deligated to gainesville at some later time. wgga, which had come in 1941 at 1240 eventually moved to 550 (and later wdun/wgga swapped)

 

[amos]

Didn't WWVA used to be AM 1270 in Gary, Indiana back in the 1960s?
In my head, I still can hear the jingle ",,,On WWVA, here's the latest news!...."

that's WWCA, 1270 in Gary, IN.


edit: didn't see this had already been answered by david eduardo.

btw, those are your broadcasting yearbooks on-line, right? thanks SO much for posting them.

 

[davideduardo]

btw, those are your broadcasting yearbooks on-line, right? thanks SO much for posting them.

Yes, that site is my fault.

In the next few days, new high resolution black and white scans of every Yearbook will start appearing, optimized for clear reading; a color version with good renditions of the graphics and photos will be available for each one too. There are now 44 of the books available, as well as about 2800 issues of the magazine.

 

[TheRealOtherNeil]

Just heard the calls, they are still using WBTS, Doraville.

 

[jabba17]

As long as we're micromanaging Cox's business, one idea would be to use WSBE. Nobody is using it, and spoken it sounds very close to WSB (double-you-ess-bee-ee). The "E" sounds like you're just drawing out the "B".

I once heard a recording of the station ID for English-language XETRA-FM out of TJ and some of the letters (particularly the vowels) sounded run-together and lost when spoken (equis-eh-teh-edeh-ah-effeh-emeh, Baja California, Mexico). It was a Latino woman's voice superimposed on whatever programming was on at the time.

 

[MarcB]

As long as we're micromanaging Cox's business, one idea would be to use WSBE. Nobody is using it, and spoken it sounds very close to WSB (double-you-ess-bee-ee). The "E" sounds like you're just drawing out the "B".

Rhode Island PBS Channel 36 WSBE Providence.

 

[trusty]

As long as we're micromanaging Cox's business, one idea would be to use WSBE. Nobody is using it, and spoken it sounds very close to WSB (double-you-ess-bee-ee). The "E" sounds like you're just drawing out the "B".

I was thinking the same thing until I found WSBE to be the calls for the Rhode Island PBS TV station.
Rats.

 

[jabba17]

Station ID for XETRA-FM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvlFlb6glHI

And, yes, that should have been Latina woman.

And, next time I'll use RecNet and not Radio-Locator to check for call usage.