What Can Save KABC?

[Drucifer]

I don't work for them or anyone connected with them. This is a discussion board. We discuss things here, not make business connections. I think I've been very specific and very direct in my opinions. You have not. Neither of us are getting paid. This is not about pointing the finger at someone else, and saying it's their problem. This is about you and I discussing real solutions to a real problem. That's what people do on discussion boards.

Thank you so much for straightening me out, again, on this station and the purpose of this discussion board. I'm running out of room in my notebook.

I don't think Citadel or Cumulus is going to shut the station down, but as I said, I doubt very much they'll be investing a lot of money in it either, mainly because the upside isn't very good. I expect they will continue with status quo for the foreseeable future.

Well, there ya go then. Cumulus is not exactly known for it's brand of talkers or news for that matter so you may have a point.

 

[davideduardo]

My point is compelling radio is not dead. Finding compelling talent in a world of voice-tracking and liner card readers may be difficult but it's NOT impossible.

The problem is that most of the sales demos are made up of "me" generation listeners while radio is a collective "us" experience. And a lot of the "me" group does not want personality DJs, they want "their" playlist.

While the odds are likely against KABC they are not impossible. If it can be done in Miami or Chicago then it can be done in Los Angeles.

With the signal KABC has and the ongoing increases in man-made interference, this is analogous to entering a mule at Hialeah.

By the way, I worked with Al Rantel, Neil, Randi Rhodes, Steve Kane and Rick and Suds (which was a morning team on in afternoon drive) and it was a BLAST! The Miami radio market responded very well to AM radio.

But that was 1989-1994, IIRC. In '89, WIOD averaged a 5 share while in '94 it had a 3.5. WIOD was, in that era, a collection of the good and familiar talent of WNWS and some other good talents, but even that could not hold up to the changing demos of Miami and the gradual withering of AM.

Just a year later, WAMR began what was just about a 15 year run as top biller in Miami, another indication of how Miami did not any longer respond to AM talk in English.

...Their(sic) were those who said it wouldn't work BUT IT DID but unless someone steps up to create something COMPELLING, we may never know and KABC may end up with leased, dead programming.

Another symptom of how different radio is now is looking at where the PD of that station is now.. sales management for retail. WIOD was a really good station in the period you refer to, but that focus and style are not going to work today.

As BigA has said, this is not the time to put money into a bad facility. Established talk stations are one thing, but attempting to build a franchise with a deficient AM is going to be so expensive that even any increase will, at best, be a Pyrrhic victory and more likely just a garden-variety rout.

 

[Drucifer]

David, your points are not lost and are very valid. What I am suggesting is that, unless someone comes along with something as compelling as that format was, the outlook is bleak. I am not sure what the exact solution is but I am pretty sure that for AM to do anything, it is going to have to rise up like the phoenix and find a niche that makes people want to come back and stay.

 

[AM FM listener]

If I were running a big radio company, I would gradually sell all of my AMs that weren't clear channels and get out of the AM radio business.

It's not necessary to have a clear channel, particularly since there are only 25 of the old 1-A's and about 40 or 50 really really good 1-B's or equivalents, like KNBR, KOA, WGY, KNX.

KLAC with 5 kw on the beautiful 570 frequency covers nearly an identical population in its LA metro 5 mV/M as KNX on the inferior 1070. There are quite a few stations like 560 in Denver and Chicago, 610 and 560 in SF, 600 in San Diego, 610 in Miami that are not clears but which cover very very well and are fully competitive.

And technically, 1020, 1110, 870, 710, 1540 and 1580 in LA are clears, too... but all are either lower night power operations or highly directional.

The bigger issue is that in the Top 100 markets, there are fewer than 200 viable AM signals (cover the market day and night). That means in most markets, there are not enough signals to really create traffic on AM.

I may not have been technically correct when I used the term "clear channel" but what I was referring to were, as you say, those 200 AM signals that fully cover their markets day and night. Those are the only AM signals I would hang onto if I were running a big radio company. The other AM signals belong in the hands of hundreds of new radio entrepreneurs who might figure out better ways to profitably utilize them. That's all I was saying.

Out of curiosity, what do you think KABC would sell for on a stand alone basis?

 

[radioguy39nj]

KABC is definitely hampered by it's 5 kW signal vs KFI's 50 kW blaster. As I've seen elsewhere on this board, it was mentioned that KFI, despite it's blaster AM signal is considering an FM simulcast. IIRC, the same was mentioned regarding all-news KNX. A simulcast or migration to FM should be considered for KABC.

The other ABC/Citadel AM talkers WABC NY, WLS Chicago and KGO SF are all 50 kW blasters. KABC has the weakest signal of the ABC/Citadel talkers.

 

[TheBigA]

The other ABC/Citadel AM talkers WABC NY, WLS Chicago and KGO SF are all 50 kW blasters. KABC has the weakest signal of the ABC/Citadel talkers.

The thing is that Citadel, including Citadel Media (the former ABC Radio Network) doesn't own many talk properties. The biggest name is Mark Levin. This is mostly a music company. That may change, they might find ways to better utilize the talk shows they have, perhaps nationalize the successful local ones, but right now they have nothing major. They used to have Hannity, but he jumped to Premiere not long after Citadel bought ABC. They have Imus, but he's on his last legs. Lew Dickey has it right when he talks about the incredible "platform" Cumulus now has with Citadel. They problem is they don't have a lot of valuable content.

 

[Big E]

Once KABC is no longer the Flagship station for the Dodgers Radio Network, then it will contimplate some kind of change. For now, they bill enough yearly to justify keeping the station as is.

 

[Drucifer]

The other ABC/Citadel AM talkers WABC NY, WLS Chicago and KGO SF are all 50 kW blasters. KABC has the weakest signal of the ABC/Citadel talkers.

The thing is that Citadel, including Citadel Media (the former ABC Radio Network) doesn't own many talk properties. The biggest name is Mark Levin. This is mostly a music company. That may change, they might find ways to better utilize the talk shows they have, perhaps nationalize the successful local ones, but right now they have nothing major. They used to have Hannity, but he jumped to Premiere not long after Citadel bought ABC. They have Imus, but he's on his last legs. Lew Dickey has it right when he talks about the incredible "platform" Cumulus now has with Citadel. They problem is they don't have a lot of valuable content.

Citadel may not own many but they own some big ones (talkers) and they distribute ABC radio news. Cumulus is not known, at all, for news/news-talk/talk.

 

[michael hagerty]

The other ABC/Citadel AM talkers WABC NY, WLS Chicago and KGO SF are all 50 kW blasters. KABC has the weakest signal of the ABC/Citadel talkers.

The thing is that Citadel, including Citadel Media (the former ABC Radio Network) doesn't own many talk properties. The biggest name is Mark Levin. This is mostly a music company. That may change, they might find ways to better utilize the talk shows they have, perhaps nationalize the successful local ones, but right now they have nothing major. They used to have Hannity, but he jumped to Premiere not long after Citadel bought ABC. They have Imus, but he's on his last legs. Lew Dickey has it right when he talks about the incredible "platform" Cumulus now has with Citadel. They problem is they don't have a lot of valuable content.

Citadel may not own many but they own some big ones (talkers) and they distribute ABC radio news. Cumulus is not known, at all, for news/news-talk/talk.

Apart from KLIF, Dallas.

 

[TheBigA]

Citadel may not own many but they own some big ones (talkers) and they distribute ABC radio news. Cumulus is not known, at all, for news/news-talk/talk.

Apart from KLIF, Dallas.

And WWTN Nashville and KCMO Kansas City.

 

[GenXRadio]

Here's an idea, how about a REAL, live & LOCAL sports station in L.A.?
There's NO reason this market can't or won't support a fulltime sports station instead of lots of syndicated programming.
They have a fulltime sports station in NYC, 2 in Boston, 2 in Seattle, 2 in Chicago, Dallas has one, Houston, just about every major city has one but L.A.
I can't count KSPN because 2 local shows during the broadcast day doesn't constitute a full time sports station no matter which network you're affiliated with.
There's some GREAT talent available that are doing PxP as their main source of income right now who I think would be HAPPY to make L.A. their base of operations, give you name recognition immediately and do a great show every day.
You already have the Dodgers, that's a great start, build around it, L.A. LOVES the Dodgers - Frank Mc Court aside, they LOVE their Dodgers!
Why not try to have Charley Steiner do a show? He has the credibility, is a consummate pro, that would be a hell of a personality to anchor the station with.
If you have the budget hwy not go after the Lakers or Clippers broadcast rights when they come due? I would choose the Lakers first but either one would solidify evening programming in the baseball offseason.
There's also UCLA football & Basketball who are on KLAC which as we all know is nothing but syndicated shows.
USC football on 710 might be tough because they will want to stay affiliated with ESPN I think.
The "invetory" is there! Sure you might have to go with Sporting News radio as your national network but that's fine, just focus on as many live and local shows as possible with some strong personalities, you've got the Dodgers already - BUILD on it!!!!!
I know it can be done, it just takes someone with the guts to get it done and make a FULL commitment to the station and have compelling programming and a strong PxP base.
THAT is how I would "fix" KABC

The promises made by Bob Moore to improve and shakeup KABC have come and gone, and 790 A.M. is less than a shell of its former self, to put it nicely.

So, what can save KABC?

Perhaps a more pertinent question, is KABC even worth saving as a talk station?

 

[Drucifer]

Apart from KLIF, Dallas.

Sorry, I meant successful news/news-talk/talk formatted stations.

 

[TheBigA]

You calling KABC a success? How about WABC? Lately KGO has been declining. And WMAL is in shambles.

 

[michael hagerty]

Here's an idea, how about a REAL, live & LOCAL sports station in L.A.?
There's NO reason this market can't or won't support a fulltime sports station instead of lots of syndicated programming.
They have a fulltime sports station in NYC, 2 in Boston, 2 in Seattle, 2 in Chicago, Dallas has one, Houston, just about every major city has one but L.A.
I can't count KSPN because 2 local shows during the broadcast day doesn't constitute a full time sports station no matter which network you're affiliated with.
There's some GREAT talent available that are doing PxP as their main source of income right now who I think would be HAPPY to make L.A. their base of operations, give you name recognition immediately and do a great show every day.
You already have the Dodgers, that's a great start, build around it, L.A. LOVES the Dodgers - Frank Mc Court aside, they LOVE their Dodgers!
Why not try to have Charley Steiner do a show? He has the credibility, is a consummate pro, that would be a hell of a personality to anchor the station with.
If you have the budget hwy not go after the Lakers or Clippers broadcast rights when they come due? I would choose the Lakers first but either one would solidify evening programming in the baseball offseason.
There's also UCLA football & Basketball who are on KLAC which as we all know is nothing but syndicated shows.
USC football on 710 might be tough because they will want to stay affiliated with ESPN I think.
The "invetory" is there! Sure you might have to go with Sporting News radio as your national network but that's fine, just focus on as many live and local shows as possible with some strong personalities, you've got the Dodgers already - BUILD on it!!!!!
I know it can be done, it just takes someone with the guts to get it done and make a FULL commitment to the station and have compelling programming and a strong PxP base.
THAT is how I would "fix" KABC

24/7 live anything is expensive, KABC can't be swimming in money at this point, and the new owners are known for their frugality.

As for play-by-play...maybe David Eduardo can explain, but I'm surprised if any major pro sports team is happy with any AM signal in L.A. save KFI or KNX (neither of which will dilute their brand by committing to a team).

Wouldn't the owners of the Dodgers, Angels, Lakers, Clippers, Kings and anyone sniffing around the idea of bringing the NFL back to town be among those pushing hardest to put sports on a full-signal FM so they'd have an option of their games being heard in the entire metro?

 

[Drucifer]

You calling KABC a success? How about WABC? Lately KGO has been declining. And WMAL is in shambles.

No, BigA, I'm not. READ! Cumulus does not have a strong success of running the formats aforementioned. GOT IT? Citadel, whether YOU like them or not do have some BIG signals with some decent ratings, WLS et al. Stop looking for a fight where there isn't one.

 

[radioguy39nj]

Here's an idea, how about a REAL, live & LOCAL sports station in L.A.?
They have a fulltime sports station in NYC, 2 in Boston, 2 in Seattle, 2 in Chicago, Dallas has one, Houston, just about every major city has one but L.A.

LA just doesn't seem to have the passion for its teams you have in NY, Chicago, Boston and others. Hasn't live and local sports been tried in LA and failed? IIRC, CBS was rumored to be flipping KTWV to all-sports on FM.

NYC has two full-time sports stations, the long-established WFAN and WEPN (1050 ESPN). Dallas has three, KRLD (105.3 The Fan), KESN (103.3 ESPN) and KTCK (1310 The Ticket), which also has an FM repeater at 104.1.

 

[radioguy39nj]

Here's an idea, how about a REAL, live & LOCAL sports station in L.A.?
There's NO reason this market can't or won't support a fulltime sports station instead of lots of syndicated programming.
They have a fulltime sports station in NYC, 2 in Boston, 2 in Seattle, 2 in Chicago, Dallas has one, Houston, just about every major city has one but L.A.
I can't count KSPN because 2 local shows during the broadcast day doesn't constitute a full time sports station no matter which network you're affiliated with.
There's some GREAT talent available that are doing PxP as their main source of income right now who I think would be HAPPY to make L.A. their base of operations, give you name recognition immediately and do a great show every day.
You already have the Dodgers, that's a great start, build around it, L.A. LOVES the Dodgers - Frank Mc Court aside, they LOVE their Dodgers!
Why not try to have Charley Steiner do a show? He has the credibility, is a consummate pro, that would be a hell of a personality to anchor the station with.
If you have the budget hwy not go after the Lakers or Clippers broadcast rights when they come due? I would choose the Lakers first but either one would solidify evening programming in the baseball offseason.
There's also UCLA football & Basketball who are on KLAC which as we all know is nothing but syndicated shows.
USC football on 710 might be tough because they will want to stay affiliated with ESPN I think.
The "invetory" is there! Sure you might have to go with Sporting News radio as your national network but that's fine, just focus on as many live and local shows as possible with some strong personalities, you've got the Dodgers already - BUILD on it!!!!!
I know it can be done, it just takes someone with the guts to get it done and make a FULL commitment to the station and have compelling programming and a strong PxP base.
THAT is how I would "fix" KABC

24/7 live anything is expensive, KABC can't be swimming in money at this point, and the new owners are known for their frugality.

As for play-by-play...maybe David Eduardo can explain, but I'm surprised if any major pro sports team is happy with any AM signal in L.A. save KFI or KNX (neither of which will dilute their brand by committing to a team).

Wouldn't the owners of the Dodgers, Angels, Lakers, Clippers, Kings and anyone sniffing around the idea of bringing the NFL back to town be among those pushing hardest to put sports on a full-signal FM so they'd have an option of their games being heard in the entire metro?

Strange as it may seem, there is more live and local talk in LA than in NYC. KABC has far more live and local content than it's NYC counterpart, WABC. New York is one of the worst markets for local talk programming.

WCBS, KNX' CBS sister news outlet in NYC, has broadcast Yankee baseball since 2002. It hasn't hurt WCBS' news brand at all. WCBS' ratings spike during baseball season.

 

[GenXRadio]

I don't buy that LA fans aren't as passionate about their teams as we are in Boston - yes I am a Bostonian, have seen WEEI's success and believe it can be done in L.A. as well.
I read the Dodger blogs, have in laws in L.A. and know TONS of Dodger fans who are just as passionate as Red Sox & Yankee fans, the problem is that you haven't given them a podium to share their passion.
The local shows are only on during middays or afternoon drive - if you're lucky and even then it merely doubles as pregame show for the Lakers or whatever PBP they're fortunate to have in house.
You're in the #2 radio market which means there are LOTS of people dying to work in a big media town like L.A. along with that comes sales staffs who should be bringing in huge amounts of revenue.
You can get a guy or guys to be the lead talent on a great morning show who also may do some national PxP, if on a Monday he's in another city you just have to make sure he has access to a studio and do his show remotely but really how often is that going to happen?
A STRONG morning show with a great host, good sidekick and the other assorted parts - which I've been a Producer, a good producer can do a TON for a show and is NOT expensive and again - you're in L.A. - resume builder and INCREDIBLE experience!
Then middays you go to Charley Steiner, he's so well versed in all sports that the show would be fantastic! I'd say you could have Shelley Smith on with him or the afternoon drive show but with her working for ESPN unless ESPN was the national network affiliated with the station that wouldn't happen.
Afternoon drive you go with a strong host, and have rotating guest hosts with that host bring in Plaschke, Dilbeck, Siciliano - hey now there's someone who could be a great afternoon drive host or even morning host but you can do it and pay them per appearance - WEEI did it for YEARS with "The Big Show" having recently brought in a regular co host and keeping the rotating guesst down to 1-2 instead of 3 plus the host.
After that you go to pregame, PxP. post game and then network programming until morning show comes around.
On the weekends when you really have the die hards listening that's when you give younger guys their opportunity to be on the air, talking sports in the #2 radio market in the country!
Heck you will also have Dodger games on the weekends, not to mention UCLA or USC football if you were able to outbid the competition or go for the rights to the Galaxy or Chivas and bring in the soccer fans of L.A. who may not be listening during the week for baseball or football talk - get the name out there.
Next, get out there, show you're the "Sports Leader of L.A. - KABC!" use your marketing dept, street teamers are inexpensive, schwag can be inexpensive, get the sales staff to sell appearances and live broadcasts, there SO much that can be done!
Anyone who cries gloom and doom that this is too expensive to do just don't see the possibilities and creativity not just on the air but in the business office too that it would take to do it and the hard work but FUN it can be!

 

[stevechang]

24/7 live anything is expensive, KABC can't be swimming in money at this point, and the new owners are known for their frugality.

If Cumulus is known for frugality, then KABC hosts Larry Edler and Glee star John Phillips should have no problem securing a deal. There was nothing like a real live dose of unemployment to reset Larry's huge image of himself. I bet Bob Moore is paying him a fraction of what he previously earned.

As for John Phillips, I think he takes home a free dinner every night from KABC's cafeteria.