What do we do?????

[radiopilot]

I guess the general feeling after the previous posts regarding the AM antenna questions and grounding, or the FM question regarding the power levels, or antenna and coverage.. and it leaves me with a bitter feeling that perhaps we all got it wrong in some twisted way.

Then I read the BMI post and hear how a young person just trying to get his feet wet with this hobby only to get so frustrated that his transmitter lay in waste in disgust and it tells me the general state of this hobby... Part15 broadcasters in fear the the FCC, the snitch, the disgruntled neighbor, the ridiculus homeowners association, the music industry, the list goes on and on.....

WOW... is this what we all bought into when we saw the ads in the internet or back of some electronics magazine about having your own personal PART15 radio station? Now the rage is Podcasting and I don't see the hounds after them yet!

This general feeling will somehow have to go away... there used to be very good discussions here on this board regarding "how to's" and helpful hints and tricks on getting on the air, but somehow it's all been negative even if the answers are valid and true, we don't want to bear it because we all know that if we place that legal FM transmitter at 50 feet high using it's certified antenna that this tiny wattage the FCC/NAB have construed on us won't go so far as the rear of the property one lives on, just as Jeremy Andrews states.

It's clear that the FCC does not want anyone except the million dollar pockets to be on the air... the NAB has totally made that clear, no competition from the kid down the street on a FM microphone doing karaoke, that the interference to a licensed radio station 50 miles away with 100kw is going to notice, call the FCC/SWAT team over to ransack the house and take every bit of electronic equipment including the bathroom scale in seizure. How did it come to this on the American public? How did our fathers before us buy into this?

What we need is political action and informed legislators friendly to the cause of this situation and to ensure that this hobby is not lost in some obscure abyss.

Radiopilot

 

[pbolyn]

I don't think the situation is as bad as you paint it. Nobody is getting fined or put in jail for running a legal part 15 station. Even the "legal" aspect is somewhat soft as evidenced by lack of enforcement by the FCC on some vague aspects of the rules.

Fully legal, licensed ham operators have been up against some of the same issues you mention (the disgruntled neighbor, the ridiculous homeowners association). There have even been reports of equipment confiscated by local police bozos who see the antennas on the car and assume that the guy MUST be listening to police radio on an illegal scanner!

The only reports of FCC "swat teams" relate to clearly illegal pirate stations. They do not apply to and should not be a concern for our discussions of part 15 operation.

The title of this board is "Community Radio". People are genuinely concerned with the deplorable state of affairs in the commercial broadcasting industry and want some measure of local community-interest radio to return. LPFM and maybe some future incarnation of LPAM are a very desirable first step. Part 15 is not going to set the world on fire in this arena, but serves to demonstrate the interest, concern and need.

Part 15 broadcasting is a hobby. There are not enough part 15 stations to even be significant in the whole scheme of things. It is impractical to expect that this small special interest group could be anything other than a miniscule political force. I have always admired a little constructive civil disobedience. The best thing for part 15 broadcasters would be for them to grow in numbers and become significant in the whole scheme of things. Bowing to vague threats and found less fears of going to jail is just what the big boys want. Don't do it. This is supposed to be a democracy. Cast your vote.

I grew up in a small town. The local radio station was a prominent part of the community. They played nice music, a mix of pop and traditional. News coverage was focused on local issues, just like a good small town newspaper. There were local high school sports broadcasts and they did remotes from community businesses. They even covered the local July 4th or whatever downtown parades. This is very, very rare now in radio and what remains is disappearing to national talk show drivel. Part 15, LPFM and "LPAM" promise to bring some of this back. Lets not give up or give in. We need to be proactive and positive.





> I guess the general feeling after the previous posts
> regarding the AM antenna questions and grounding, or the FM
> question regarding the power levels, or antenna and
> coverage.. and it leaves me with a bitter feeling that
> perhaps we all got it wrong in some twisted way.
>
> Then I read the BMI post and hear how a young person just
> trying to get his feet wet with this hobby only to get so
> frustrated that his transmitter lay in waste in disgust and
> it tells me the general state of this hobby... Part15
> broadcasters in fear the the FCC, the snitch, the
> disgruntled neighbor, the ridiculus homeowners association,
> the music industry, the list goes on and on.....
>
> WOW... is this what we all bought into when we saw the ads
> in the internet or back of some electronics magazine about
> having your own personal PART15 radio station? Now the rage
> is Podcasting and I don't see the hounds after them yet!
>
> This general feeling will somehow have to go away... there
> used to be very good discussions here on this board
> regarding "how to's" and helpful hints and tricks on getting
> on the air, but somehow it's all been negative even if the
> answers are valid and true, we don't want to bear it because
> we all know that if we place that legal FM transmitter at 50
> feet high using it's certified antenna that this tiny
> wattage the FCC/NAB have construed on us won't go so far as
> the rear of the property one lives on, just as Jeremy
> Andrews states.
>
> It's clear that the FCC does not want anyone except the
> million dollar pockets to be on the air... the NAB has
> totally made that clear, no competition from the kid down
> the street on a FM microphone doing karaoke, that the
> interference to a licensed radio station 50 miles away with
> 100kw is going to notice, call the FCC/SWAT team over to
> ransack the house and take every bit of electronic equipment
> including the bathroom scale in seizure. How did it come to
> this on the American public? How did our fathers before us
> buy into this?
>
> What we need is political action and informed legislators
> friendly to the cause of this situation and to ensure that
> this hobby is not lost in some obscure abyss.
>
> Radiopilot
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Phil B
</P>

 

[suncountry]

I don't mean to rain on the part 15 broadcaster's parade since I used to be one, but I made the jump from part 15 to Internet radio via Live365.com and couldn't be happier. If you comply with the music requirements of the RIAA, the fees you pay to Live365 each month not only cover your bandwidth package but also covers your RIAA, BMI, ASCAP and SESAC royalties. When Sun Country 99.5 (and 1640 before that) was operating as a part 15 broadcaster, the only regular listeners were in my own household and occasionally the neighbor next door. Since making the jump to Live365.com, Sun Country averages over 1000 streams a month launched from all over the world. No bad for a station that does no outside advertising what-so-ever. In all the years of part 15 operation we never received any feedback on our programming in response to on-air promos. Since making the jump to cyberspace we get daily feedback from listeners. If Roadrunner goes down (our STL to live365.com) and we are off the air the e-mail comes pouring in. It is nice to be actually be missed by our audience!

I'll have to admit that there was something romantic about turning on a radio, tuning it to your frequency and listening your station. Too bad I was the ONLY one hearing it. Now there is something far more romantic about going on vacation anywhere in the world and enjoying my station wherever I can hook up to broadband!

In 2005 with broadband availability almost universal and providers like Live365.com covering royalties in your monthly fees, I truly believe that the Internet is the radio band of the future. At Sun Country 99.5 we are sure glad we made the jump.

Sun Country 99.5
6 decades of classic country music from sunny Florida!
www.live365.com/stations/suncountry<P ID="signature">______________
Deano</P>

 

[viberadio]

I totally disagree with all those comments about the FCC and SWAT LOL!!! I for one am into Law Enforcement and run a part15, "mind you with a hugh listener
ship on AM and the internet." I will say this once more for the last time! The FCC is NOT against part15 and the NAB doesn't even care, in better words "give a rat's @ss.

First a license means squat, if you the licensee operates with illegal practices on Ham or Broadcasting AM or FM

second I know alot of you can put all your energies into your stations instead of whinning about this and that.

We should share programming, ideas, start a group to help part15 and exc...

I know that there are alot of people in message boards that rain on people's parade and put people down but also have learned that those people that do that, are just losers that are lazy, jelious and have no life so they spend their useless exsistance writting crap to hurt and disencourage people from their dreams.

There is an artist "rapper" of the regeton genre that once said: "I love when people use their own time to bad mouth me or writting bad things about me, because it only encourages me more to go further with my life to better myself or my art and also shows me how I impacted their little life in some way." and that was ladies and gentlemen Don Dinero

I heard him say that on a local station here, It made me think alot and I called and I told him about my part15 station "live" and he said people will always have negative things to say but go foward and use their negativity as a stepping stool to the top, and the jock on the station asked me what station do you own, when I told him he said "Oh! crap I listen all the time from home you have great there." and then he went on how I play great music ad that people should listen sometime and give support.


regards
Maurice















> I don't think the situation is as bad as you paint it.
> Nobody is getting fined or put in jail for running a legal
> part 15 station. Even the "legal" aspect is somewhat soft as
> evidenced by lack of enforcement by the FCC on some vague
> aspects of the rules.
>
> Fully legal, licensed ham operators have been up against
> some of the same issues you mention (the disgruntled
> neighbor, the ridiculous homeowners association). There have
> even been reports of equipment confiscated by local police
> bozos who see the antennas on the car and assume that the
> guy MUST be listening to police radio on an illegal scanner!
>
>
> The only reports of FCC "swat teams" relate to clearly
> illegal pirate stations. They do not apply to and should not
> be a concern for our discussions of part 15 operation.
>
> The title of this board is "Community Radio". People are
> genuinely concerned with the deplorable state of affairs in
> the commercial broadcasting industry and want some measure
> of local community-interest radio to return. LPFM and maybe
> some future incarnation of LPAM are a very desirable first
> step. Part 15 is not going to set the world on fire in this
> arena, but serves to demonstrate the interest, concern and
> need.
>
> Part 15 broadcasting is a hobby. There are not enough part
> 15 stations to even be significant in the whole scheme of
> things. It is impractical to expect that this small special
> interest group could be anything other than a miniscule
> political force. I have always admired a little constructive
> civil disobedience. The best thing for part 15 broadcasters
> would be for them to grow in numbers and become significant
> in the whole scheme of things. Bowing to vague threats and
> found less fears of going to jail is just what the big boys
> want. Don't do it. This is supposed to be a democracy. Cast
> your vote.
>
> I grew up in a small town. The local radio station was a
> prominent part of the community. They played nice music, a
> mix of pop and traditional. News coverage was focused on
> local issues, just like a good small town newspaper. There
> were local high school sports broadcasts and they did
> remotes from community businesses. They even covered the
> local July 4th or whatever downtown parades. This is very,
> very rare now in radio and what remains is disappearing to
> national talk show drivel. Part 15, LPFM and "LPAM" promise
> to bring some of this back. Lets not give up or give in. We
> need to be proactive and positive.
>
>
>
>
>
> > I guess the general feeling after the previous posts
> > regarding the AM antenna questions and grounding, or the
> FM
> > question regarding the power levels, or antenna and
> > coverage.. and it leaves me with a bitter feeling that
> > perhaps we all got it wrong in some twisted way.
> >
> > Then I read the BMI post and hear how a young person just
> > trying to get his feet wet with this hobby only to get so
> > frustrated that his transmitter lay in waste in disgust
> and
> > it tells me the general state of this hobby... Part15
> > broadcasters in fear the the FCC, the snitch, the
> > disgruntled neighbor, the ridiculus homeowners
> association,
> > the music industry, the list goes on and on.....
> >
> > WOW... is this what we all bought into when we saw the ads
>
> > in the internet or back of some electronics magazine about
>
> > having your own personal PART15 radio station? Now the
> rage
> > is Podcasting and I don't see the hounds after them yet!
> >
> > This general feeling will somehow have to go away... there
>
> > used to be very good discussions here on this board
> > regarding "how to's" and helpful hints and tricks on
> getting
> > on the air, but somehow it's all been negative even if the
>
> > answers are valid and true, we don't want to bear it
> because
> > we all know that if we place that legal FM transmitter at
> 50
> > feet high using it's certified antenna that this tiny
> > wattage the FCC/NAB have construed on us won't go so far
> as
> > the rear of the property one lives on, just as Jeremy
> > Andrews states.
> >
> > It's clear that the FCC does not want anyone except the
> > million dollar pockets to be on the air... the NAB has
> > totally made that clear, no competition from the kid down
> > the street on a FM microphone doing karaoke, that the
> > interference to a licensed radio station 50 miles away
> with
> > 100kw is going to notice, call the FCC/SWAT team over to
> > ransack the house and take every bit of electronic
> equipment
> > including the bathroom scale in seizure. How did it come
> to
> > this on the American public? How did our fathers before us
>
> > buy into this?
> >
> > What we need is political action and informed legislators
> > friendly to the cause of this situation and to ensure that
>
> > this hobby is not lost in some obscure abyss.
> >
> > Radiopilot
> >
>

 

[pbolyn]

> I don't mean to rain on the part 15 broadcaster's parade
> since I used to be one, but I made the jump from part 15 to
> Internet radio via Live365.com and couldn't be happier.

“Internet radio” is not radio, it's just a different medium for transferring audio. Radio has traditionally referred to electromagnetic over-the-air transmission. This forum is focused on real radio -- Radio-Info.com -- Community Radio. I think you are indeed raining on the parade here and I think you should confine your posts to forums focused on "internet radio", which is not real radio.

Saying you only reached the neighbor next door does not mean anything. Maybe you had a crappy transmitter, crappy antenna, crappy ground, mistuned antenna, etc. Maybe you live in the middle of an Iowa farm with no neighbors. Who knows what? The point is your statements are meaningless.
<P ID="signature">______________
Phil B
</P>

 

[pbolyn]

Amen.<P ID="signature">______________
Phil B
</P>

 

[radiopilot]

> > I don't mean to rain on the part 15 broadcaster's parade
> > since I used to be one, but I made the jump from part 15
> to
> > Internet radio via Live365.com and couldn't be happier.
>
> “Internet radio” is not radio, it's just a different medium
> for transferring audio. Radio has traditionally referred to
> electromagnetic over-the-air transmission. This forum is
> focused on real radio -- Radio-Info.com -- Community Radio.
> I think you are indeed raining on the parade here and I
> think you should confine your posts to forums focused on
> "internet radio", which is not real radio.
>
> Saying you only reached the neighbor next door does not mean
> anything. Maybe you had a crappy transmitter, crappy
> antenna, crappy ground, mistuned antenna, etc. Maybe you
> live in the middle of an Iowa farm with no neighbors. Who
> knows what? The point is your statements are meaningless.
>


Phil, I'll have to disagree with you here, the internet will be the new medium for music, there are now rumors of music being added to cell phone service, there are radios which now play WIFI based internet radio, I can see later radios with FM/WIFI Internet Radio service, there is such a radio in Europe already... they are far ahead of us here in terms of this.

Sun Country is correct in what it says about listenership... I'm not doubting anyone here, I'm broadcasting AM and some FM with limited antenna height, but yet to have 'many' listeners call me up or send emails about my radio station... in fact 'I have to tell them' it's on the air and what station to listen to even though it's a small town... people just don't listen to radio for music anymore... almost every kid I see and I see lots of them at swim meets/school functions has an Ipod/Zen mp3 music device, I approach them and ask what station they like to listen to... their reaction is .. 'what radio station, I'm listening to my downloads...'!

As much as 'I' like radio, it's not what it used to be and IBOC which to me is a big waste of money is just blowing in the wind... it's no longer the medium it used to be...that's progress, just as reel to reel, 8-track's, cassettes, VHS, and soon CD's....

Radiopilot

 

[rfry]

> The only reports of FCC "swat teams" relate to clearly
> illegal pirate stations. They do not apply to and should not
> be a concern for our discussions of part 15 operation.
__________

The point is that many Part 15 users have no way of knowing whether they are operating legally or not. For example, many Part 15 FM tx manufacturers appear to supply transmitters capable of much more power output than required to meet the Part 15 radiation limit. Why? Good question. Manufacturers may have "boilerplate" in their instruction books saying that the user must comply with all regulations -- but how does a typical Part 15 operator know that he is doing that? This is a technically complex process probably few want to investigate or follow.

The comments I've posted have been offered to help Part 15 users determine what constitutes a legal, and possibly illegal installation. They can be used to operate either way. But aren't people better off knowing what those limits are?

 

[dbdigital]

> > I don't mean to rain on the part 15 broadcaster's parade
> > since I used to be one, but I made the jump from part 15
> to
> > Internet radio via Live365.com and couldn't be happier.
>
> “Internet radio” is not radio, it's just a different medium
> for transferring audio. Radio has traditionally referred to
> electromagnetic over-the-air transmission. This forum is
> focused on real radio -- Radio-Info.com -- Community Radio.
> I think you are indeed raining on the parade here and I
> think you should confine your posts to forums focused on
> "internet radio", which is not real radio.
>
> Saying you only reached the neighbor next door does not mean
> anything. Maybe you had a crappy transmitter, crappy
> antenna, crappy ground, mistuned antenna, etc. Maybe you
> live in the middle of an Iowa farm with no neighbors. Who
> knows what? The point is your statements are meaningless.
>

It's not unlike the argument that a project shot on video is not film even though the producer refers to it as such. Because of technology, terms change. Today film is synonomous with visual storytelling.

Today radio is more an art form, an aural experience then simply a technology for transmitting sound electromagnetically. So I think the term internet radio fits.

db

 

[murphmac]

> I guess the general feeling after the previous posts
> regarding the AM antenna questions and grounding, or the FM
> question regarding the power levels, or antenna and
> coverage.. and it leaves me with a bitter feeling that
> perhaps we all got it wrong in some twisted way.
>
> Then I read the BMI post and hear how a young person just
> trying to get his feet wet with this hobby only to get so
> frustrated that his transmitter lay in waste in disgust and
> it tells me the general state of this hobby... Part15
> broadcasters in fear the the FCC, the snitch, the
> disgruntled neighbor, the ridiculus homeowners association,
> the music industry, the list goes on and on.....
>
> WOW... is this what we all bought into when we saw the ads
> in the internet or back of some electronics magazine about
> having your own personal PART15 radio station? Now the rage
> is Podcasting and I don't see the hounds after them yet!
>
> This general feeling will somehow have to go away... there
> used to be very good discussions here on this board
> regarding "how to's" and helpful hints and tricks on getting
> on the air, but somehow it's all been negative even if the
> answers are valid and true, we don't want to bear it because
> we all know that if we place that legal FM transmitter at 50
> feet high using it's certified antenna that this tiny
> wattage the FCC/NAB have construed on us won't go so far as
> the rear of the property one lives on, just as Jeremy
> Andrews states.
>
> It's clear that the FCC does not want anyone except the
> million dollar pockets to be on the air... the NAB has
> totally made that clear, no competition from the kid down
> the street on a FM microphone doing karaoke, that the
> interference to a licensed radio station 50 miles away with
> 100kw is going to notice, call the FCC/SWAT team over to
> ransack the house and take every bit of electronic equipment
> including the bathroom scale in seizure. How did it come to
> this on the American public? How did our fathers before us
> buy into this?
>
> What we need is political action and informed legislators
> friendly to the cause of this situation and to ensure that
> this hobby is not lost in some obscure abyss.
>
> Radiopilot



I agree with some of what you are saying. I do think that the FCC makes the restictions so tough that unless you are in the most ideal location, you really might as well hang it up.

Let me say this, over the past three years I've been reading these posts with all the talk about the most minute details of FCC regulations that it made me want to give up on this. Here's my take - try the best you can to follow their rules but you probably will have to make some adjustments as far a antenna length, grounding ETC. - to tell you the truth - I bought a Rangemaster which is the best Part 15 transmitter and used the 9' wire antenna. To make a long story short, my signal did not go ANYWHERE!!!! I was disgusted. It was because of my location. Some adjustments were made over time and I managed to get a 3/4 mile signal in each direction. I feel that I am following to the best I can and always keep up on new posts and ideas. Sometimes their rules - DO NOT FIT YOUR SITUATION!! Does that mean that you have to give up?? Just come as close as you can, do not interfere with other stations, use part 15 accepted transmitters or ones that have the required output power for Part 15. Keep your range within the basic range that others get for Part 15. That's about the best you can do. My theory is that the fcc really discourages any broadcasts which may in any way interfere with the Corporate Giants. Just look at the rule they passed which allows one company to buy up all of the stations in one city. THAT SAYS IT ALL!! RIDICULOUS!!! If they encouraged PART 15, they would change the extremely restrictive rules. They would encourage use of the under utilized AM Band. They would allow these so called TIS stations to be more community oriented with different formats and information. But they don't, the AM band is cluttered with these TIS Station most of which give you no information!! One in my area kept playing a snow removal loop in the middle of this hot horrible summer. Is this serving the community, I don't think so but they rather clutter up the band with this S--t rather than allow useful, information, entertaining programs on the air.

This is my take - good luck in your endeavors.

Jim Murphy
Edgewater Radio
>

 

[murphmac]

> > > I don't mean to rain on the part 15 broadcaster's parade
>
> > > since I used to be one, but I made the jump from part 15
>
> > to
> > > Internet radio via Live365.com and couldn't be happier.
>
> >
> > “Internet radio” is not radio, it's just a different
> medium
> > for transferring audio. Radio has traditionally referred
> to
> > electromagnetic over-the-air transmission. This forum is
> > focused on real radio -- Radio-Info.com -- Community
> Radio.
> > I think you are indeed raining on the parade here and I
> > think you should confine your posts to forums focused on
> > "internet radio", which is not real radio.
> >
> > Saying you only reached the neighbor next door does not
> mean
> > anything. Maybe you had a crappy transmitter, crappy
> > antenna, crappy ground, mistuned antenna, etc. Maybe you
> > live in the middle of an Iowa farm with no neighbors. Who
> > knows what? The point is your statements are meaningless.
> >
>
>
> Phil, I'll have to disagree with you here, the internet will
> be the new medium for music, there are now rumors of music
> being added to cell phone service, there are radios which
> now play WIFI based internet radio, I can see later radios
> with FM/WIFI Internet Radio service, there is such a radio
> in Europe already... they are far ahead of us here in terms
> of this.
>
> Sun Country is correct in what it says about listenership...
> I'm not doubting anyone here, I'm broadcasting AM and some
> FM with limited antenna height, but yet to have 'many'
> listeners call me up or send emails about my radio
> station... in fact 'I have to tell them' it's on the air and
> what station to listen to even though it's a small town...
> people just don't listen to radio for music anymore...
> almost every kid I see and I see lots of them at swim
> meets/school functions has an Ipod/Zen mp3 music device, I
> approach them and ask what station they like to listen to...
> their reaction is .. 'what radio station, I'm listening to
> my downloads...'!
>
> As much as 'I' like radio, it's not what it used to be and
> IBOC which to me is a big waste of money is just blowing in
> the wind... it's no longer the medium it used to be...that's
> progress, just as reel to reel, 8-track's, cassettes, VHS,
> and soon CD's....
>
> Radiopilot
>

I agree - with WI FI, Internet Radio will be able to be more accessible in the future. What is "real radio"? Satellite and Internet radio may be the "new" definition of "real" radio. Terrestrial transmissions may be considered "dinasours" in the future.

 

[suncountry]

> > I don't mean to rain on the part 15 broadcaster's parade
> > since I used to be one, but I made the jump from part 15
> to
> > Internet radio via Live365.com and couldn't be happier.
>
> “Internet radio” is not radio, it's just a different medium
> for transferring audio. Radio has traditionally referred to
> electromagnetic over-the-air transmission. This forum is
> focused on real radio -- Radio-Info.com -- Community Radio.
> I think you are indeed raining on the parade here and I
> think you should confine your posts to forums focused on
> "internet radio", which is not real radio.
>
> Saying you only reached the neighbor next door does not mean
> anything. Maybe you had a crappy transmitter, crappy
> antenna, crappy ground, mistuned antenna, etc. Maybe you
> live in the middle of an Iowa farm with no neighbors. Who
> knows what? The point is your statements are meaningless.

I don't believe I started my earlier post with "Dear Phil, you and Part 15 broadcasting sucks" so please take a deep breath (and not take my post personally). My post attacked no one, made fun of or put down no one and was factual to my experience with part 15 broadcasting.

The first post on this thread was someone expressing frustration about what they percieve as the condition of Part 15 radio. Truth is, BMI is out to begin collecting music licensing fees from Part 15 broadcasters and ASCAP and SESAC plan to follow. The truth is that music is not free for the airing. The artists, composers, producers and writers have legal copywrite claims and BMI, SESAC, ASCAP and the RIAA are out to capitalize on that fact. It doesn't matter that we don't make a cent on our broadcasts. The law is on their side, not ours. When we purchased that CD, we did not pay for the right to publically perform the contents of the disc. That's extra. The law won't allow you to go to a car rental place and use one of their vehicles without paying for the right. The law won't allow you to publically perform (broadcast)copywrited music without paying for the right either. I'm not making a "fairness" arguement here, just a legality one.

Truth is, if you are a Part 15 FM broadcaster and are anywhere in the ballpart of legal, you are covering your own front yard and maybe a neighbor's. If you willfully exceed that, a healthy fear of the FCC is probably a good thing because you are breaking the law. Reality, however, is that unless you are interfering with a legally licensed station or have negatively caught the attention of a neighbor or Clear Channel, the FCC has much bigger fish to fry than you. Again, the fairness of the law is not the point of my comment. That is a completely different battle that I wish we had the ability to fight. Until it is changed, the law is the law. Rfry's recent posts simply point that out. I personally think it is neat that a broadcast engineer bothered to take the time to do the calculations and share them with us. Use or ignore the information he shares as you wish.

As a Part 15 AM broadcaster I had a very decent signal footprint for Florida and it's miserable ground conductivity, about a 1/4 mile out from the antenna using a very good radio. No 20 foot in the air or 120 radial ground system in the back yard tricks...just using the supplied 3 meter wire antenna which I encased in copper air conditioner tubing to make more manageable. I covered about 25 houses with a usable daytime signal. My classic country format was simply too specialized to have an impact among the number of potential listeners in the footprint. I have no proof, but would suspect that many other non-mass appeal formats suffer the same end result. The Internet gave me access to enough potential listeners to develop an audience.

My original post was offering up one possible solution while sharing some of my frustrations. I encourage anyone with the desire to pursue Part 15 broadcasting to do so. If your goal is more than just having a transmitted signal in the air. If you want to reach people with a message or certain type of music, there are other ways of doing so that may offer greater potential than a Part 15 station. Internet radio is one of them.

In a broadband wired neighborhood or city, community Internet radio has HUGE potential if you got the word out. Every listener gets a clear signal, day and night and the FCC is no longer an issue in your life. Go through a company like Live365.com, abide by their rules and the RIAA, BMI, SESAC and ASCAP are no longer an issue in your life. You can just worry about doing compelling radio that might make a difference in your community (and the whole world can eavesdrop). If you choose the Part 15 station route, thats cool too. But know that the BMIs and FCCs of this world will not stop carrying out their marching orders within the law. Fair or unfair.<P ID="signature">______________
Deano</P>

 

[suncountry]

> > The only reports of FCC "swat teams" relate to clearly
> > illegal pirate stations. They do not apply to and should
> not
> > be a concern for our discussions of part 15 operation.
> __________
>
> The point is that many Part 15 users have no way of knowing
> whether they are operating legally or not. For example,
> many Part 15 FM tx manufacturers appear to supply
> transmitters capable of much more power output than required
> to meet the Part 15 radiation limit. Why? Good question.
> Manufacturers may have "boilerplate" in their instruction
> books saying that the user must comply with all regulations
> -- but how does a typical Part 15 operator know that he is
> doing that? This is a technically complex process probably
> few want to investigate or follow.
>
> The comments I've posted have been offered to help Part 15
> users determine what constitutes a legal, and possibly
> illegal installation. They can be used to operate either
> way. But aren't people better off knowing what those limits
> are?

I for one, thank you for the information. A year ago the tone of this board was about being a legal Part 15 broadcaster and your posts would not have been so hostily greeted. <P ID="signature">______________
Deano</P>

 

[apco25]

> > I don't mean to rain on the part 15 broadcaster's parade
> > since I used to be one, but I made the jump from part 15
> to
> > Internet radio via Live365.com and couldn't be happier.
>
> “Internet radio” is not radio, it's just a different medium
> for transferring audio. Radio has traditionally referred to
> electromagnetic over-the-air transmission. This forum is
> focused on real radio -- Radio-Info.com -- Community Radio.
> I think you are indeed raining on the parade here and I
> think you should confine your posts to forums focused on
> "internet radio", which is not real radio.
>
> Saying you only reached the neighbor next door does not mean
> anything. Maybe you had a crappy transmitter, crappy
> antenna, crappy ground, mistuned antenna, etc. Maybe you
> live in the middle of an Iowa farm with no neighbors. Who
> knows what? The point is your statements are meaningless.
>


I understand the frustrationn of your hobby, but your post is and thinking is today considered out of touch. Internet broadcasting is radio. It's just another mode as AM is to FM as to QAM, PM, CDMA, etc. is to digital cell phone technology.
I've had an FM 10 watt staion in a very populated area that went alot further then a part 15 unit went, and I still today had no idea if any one was listening.
I now operate an Internet Live 365 station and I know how many are listening. Alot more and all over the world like France.
Internet and cable were designed because of the flooded allocated AM band. And you should know yourself that something your trying to succeed in has peaked and flooded you out.
It's amazing when i go on these boards that there still people like you who live in the past thinking the world's listening to you because your putting out a signal that can be received. Your FCC licensed 1000 watters are trying to survive especially at night due to lack of listeners, what makes you think that your milliwatt is going to succeed.
Yes the rules suck, and they need to be more lienient, and this BMI bitch needs to be put in her place. But with the times going digital....it's not even worth fighting or speculating about or for.
The world in every communication field is doing away with electromagnetic field transmissions. Even public safety in the future. At the moment it's all going trunking. One day satellite and wireless broadband will be the only over the air transmissions. You'll still have low power for GMRS/FMS, big warehouse or department stores,stadiums, etc. because it makes sense, but one day you'll see alot less sticks dramatically unless there relay purposes only. And not to mention multi purpose transmissions where you'll be extinct like the dinosaur.
Yes it's a thrill when you put out your own signal, but when it goes 3 feet, it gets boring fast. Even if you were aloud 10 or 20 watts...where are you going to transmit it without interfereing with someone, somewhere. It might be all right for daytime, but night? Unless you live on a corn field somewhere....who's gonna listen? Your kid brother or sister?

 

[wikhradio]

> I don't mean to rain on the part 15 broadcaster's parade
> since I used to be one, but I made the jump from part 15 to
> Internet radio via Live365.com and couldn't be happier. If
> you comply with the music requirements of the RIAA, the fees
> you pay to Live365 each month not only cover your bandwidth
> package but also covers your RIAA, BMI, ASCAP and SESAC
> royalties. When Sun Country 99.5 (and 1640 before that) was
> operating as a part 15 broadcaster, the only regular
> listeners were in my own household and occasionally the
> neighbor next door. Since making the jump to Live365.com,
> Sun Country averages over 1000 streams a month launched from
> all over the world. No bad for a station that does no
> outside advertising what-so-ever. In all the years of part
> 15 operation we never received any feedback on our
> programming in response to on-air promos. Since making the
> jump to cyberspace we get daily feedback from listeners. If
> Roadrunner goes down (our STL to live365.com) and we are off
> the air the e-mail comes pouring in. It is nice to be
> actually be missed by our audience!
>
> I'll have to admit that there was something romantic about
> turning on a radio, tuning it to your frequency and
> listening your station. Too bad I was the ONLY one hearing
> it. Now there is something far more romantic about going on
> vacation anywhere in the world and enjoying my station
> wherever I can hook up to broadband!
>
> In 2005 with broadband availability almost universal and
> providers like Live365.com covering royalties in your
> monthly fees, I truly believe that the Internet is the radio
> band of the future. At Sun Country 99.5 we are sure glad we
> made the jump.
>
> Sun Country 99.5
> 6 decades of classic country music from sunny Florida!
> www.live365.com/stations/suncountry
>

I wish I could stream, but only have dialup. Nope, no access to cable, no access to any form of DSL, not even any access to WIRELESS internet. I am not willing to spend 599 dollars, and 59.99 a month for satellite internet. Not like we are in an area THAT out there, there are a few subdivisions around here, and about 1000 people that can't get high speed internet.

I am getting very ticked off at that fact too, as I would LOVE to stream online, and did for a short amount of time, but the connection would always drop out whenever I was gone. Also, some porn number dialed itself on our phone line, because of spyware. So basically, that plan went out the window, and cancelled my licensing and stream. Right now, my Part 15 AM and FM are all I have, and basically, they are not going that far right now either.

Basically, things suck right now in this area.... I really don't know what to do...<P ID="signature">______________


Moderator, Community Radio board</P>

 

[dickfry]

Ignore those who want to kill your dreams!

>
> The point is that many Part 15 users have no way of knowing
> whether they are operating legally or not. For example,
> many Part 15 FM tx manufacturers appear to supply
> transmitters capable of much more power output than required
> to meet the Part 15 radiation limit. Why? Good question.
> Manufacturers may have "boilerplate" in their instruction
> books saying that the user must comply with all regulations
> -- but how does a typical Part 15 operator know that he is
> doing that? This is a technically complex process probably
> few want to investigate or follow.
>
> The comments I've posted have been offered to help Part 15
> users determine what constitutes a legal, and possibly
> illegal installation. They can be used to operate either
> way. But aren't people better off knowing what those limits
> are?
>

These postings are worse than useless. They are disempowering people who are trying to do community radio. Since none of them has a Potomac meter sitting in the closet, they really can't do the measurements. All you do is scare people out of making the most of a hobby.

The FCC is here to prevent chaos. Part 15 operation is so far from being a threat to entrenched commercial broadcasters that it's a major disservice to everyone on this board to come crashing in here spouting gloom and doom. The FCC doesn't give a crap if you're running 1/5 of a watt instead of 1/10, particularly if you're just trying to keep it legal.

Your letter of the law comments posted here have been very divisive, in case you haven't noticed. Kindly leave us alone and go back to being a stern, unforgiving god who walks like a man among the commercial broadcaster engineers.


-Dick

 

[simcha]

I think the main issue in having a sucessful program and attracting listeners is the content. Sucess breeds sucess. If you have something that people can not get easy anywhere else they will look for you. It works in business and in our own part 15 backyards too.

To broadcast something that people can he better on a regular station is like broadcasting without a ground.

When people find you and like you. You will get the support you need to increase and grow. I have already received serious pledges to help expand my signal. I have others who are offering hi spots in the area to help the signal. I am hearing around town that people are getting digital clock radios so they can listen our broadcast in the am.

Tune into what people need and make it a priority to give them what they want.

 

[ajhenderson]

> In a broadband wired neighborhood or city, community
> Internet radio has HUGE potential if you got the word out.
> Every listener gets a clear signal, day and night and the
> FCC is no longer an issue in your life. Go through a
> company like Live365.com, abide by their rules and the RIAA,
> BMI, SESAC and ASCAP are no longer an issue in your life.
> You can just worry about doing compelling radio that might
> make a difference in your community (and the whole world can
> eavesdrop). If you choose the Part 15 station route, thats
> cool too. But know that the BMIs and FCCs of this world
> will not stop carrying out their marching orders within the
> law. Fair or unfair.

Not an attack personally on you, but even being in this younger demographic of people who prefers the internet over radio for music, I'd like to see the reprobates actually sitting down in front of their PC to listen to a stream. Downloading favorite songs, perhaps, but streaming some obscure station? I don't see a widespread need.

The same could be said for Part 15, since unless you're in a remote area, you probably already have every format of interest to the city covered, but Part 15 allows us to insert a local angle that is pointless to do on the internet. And if you're only serving a very small area, what percentage of people will always be at home to stream you? I would say Part 15ers broadcasting local news, high school football games, local artists, etc., has greater appeal.

 

[ajhenderson]

> Phil, I'll have to disagree with you here, the internet will
> be the new medium for music, there are now rumors of music
> being added to cell phone service, there are radios which
> now play WIFI based internet radio, I can see later radios
> with FM/WIFI Internet Radio service, there is such a radio
> in Europe already... they are far ahead of us here in terms
> of this.

I don't see why radio has to be a music-dominated medium. Sure, I guess music will always be there, but isn't there anything else? Creativity...

 

[rfry]

Re: Ignore those who want to kill your dreams!

> Part 15 operation is so far from being a threat to entrenched
> commercial broadcasters that it's a major disservice to everyone
> on this board to come crashing in here spouting gloom and doom.

What I have posted here represents gloom and doom only to those who want to use Part 15 equipment to serve distances beyond what Part 15 Rules enable. I have never written that doing so was a threat to commercial broadcasting.

My posts have shown the typical performance that can be expected when observing Part 15 Rules, based on the laws of physics. Clearly these realities are different than the dreams and practices of some Part 15 users. Some have thanked me for my posts, others have gotten angry.

People can elect to observe Part 15, to change it by legal means, or to ignore it. But at least they should make that choice with knowledge of the real-world limits those Rules provide.

> The FCC doesn't give a crap if you're running 1/5 of a watt
> instead of 1/10, particularly if you're just trying to keep
> it legal.

A parallel argument to this would be getting stopped for doing 90 mph in a 65 mph zone. Saying that you were trying to keep it legal probably would not avoid your getting a ticket.

People can operate with all the excess radiated power they want, at their own risk. But they shouldn't call, or think themselves "Part 15" operators.
_________

For those who wonder why, I started posting here after one of the contributors to this board posted messages on a broadcast-oriented list I read, with coverage claims that seemed unlikely for Part 15 systems. Reading the Part 15 boards, and email exchanges with several Part 15 tx manufacturers proved that these claims about Part 15 were quite common. So I did some calculations to find out if these claims could be legitimate, and this resulted in my posts to this list. Some here would have preferred not knowing, but does that really serve their best interests?