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What DOES San Francisco Sound Like?

Someone asked what does San Francisco sound like?

Well, way back in ancient history when both God and I were kids, there was indeed a San Francisco sound, at least on the radio. It was a sound of urbane sophistication. Let me explain...

Every Saturday night, KNBR (KNBC) had live music from various hotel dance venues, such as Ernie Heckscher from the Top of the Mark Hopkins Hotel. George Liberace (pianist Libarace's brother) had his dance band from another hotel ballroom, Ted Fiorito had another, etc. It was live and it was local. And there was a certain old-time kind of thing that endeared those broadcasts to me even though the music was somewhat long in the tooth.

And there was KGO early in its talkshow years. In those days, when Jim Dunbar was program director, KGO was pretty much an unknown has-been from another era, laboring in the shadows of KNBC. He decided to bring KGO out of the studio and into the world. So, talk host Owen Spann did his shows from Johnny Kan's restaurant in Chinatown, Senor Pico's restaurant wherever that was, etc. And there were always celebrities passing through town he could interview.

Ira Blue was on KGO in the evenings (and before that I guess it was Les Crane, but I'm too young to remember much of that). That talkshow came from the back room of the Hungry i nightclub. This was back in the day when Enrico Banducci owned the club and the Hungry i was the hotspot for nightclub comics and bands (before he sold the name to a topless club). Ira would interview all kinds of people, especially performers appearing at the club. Woody Allen, Phyllis Diller, the Kingston Trio, Irwin Corey, etc.

Ah, but there was more. There was KJAZ in Alameda, the hotspot for jazz. Not only were the DJs knowledgeable about jazz, but most of them (Gene Miller, Dick Conte, Herb Wong, etc.) So, not only could you hear good jazz, but you were plugged into what was going on in jazz.

And there was KSFO under Gene Autry, often called the World's Greatest Radio Station because they employed the best of the best DJs. Their San Francisco sound was a mellow pop kind of thing, and the KSFO DJs knew where the parties were and where the "A list" people hung out.

Oh, and what else, KABL with its elegant mix of elevator music and short classical tunes. And the classical stations, KDFC, KKHI, KBRG, KSFR, KRON-FM. And the opera and the symphony both broadcast on the radio.

Okay, that's ONE version of the San Francisco sound. It was elegant; it was sophisticated; it was a sound that said San Francisco was a big-time CITY, not a backwater.

-------

But then there was another San Francisco sound -- KDIA and KSAN (1450, later known as KSOL). KDIA and KSAN were very black, very much in touch with the R&B, blues, jazz, and gospel scenes. KDIA's newscast was called "Truth in Soul". They had some of the best of the best. That was also pre-redevelopment when the Fillmore district had black-owned nightclubs and you could walk down the street and hear live bands. Here it is 4 decades later and the city is trying desperately to repeat the success they demolished. It ain't working, even with Yoshi's.

-------

But there was still another SF sound -- the jamrock sound exemplified by not only the Grateful Dead, but the Charlatans, and a host of other bands now pretty much forgotten. This sound made up the basis of stations like KMPX, KSAN 94.9, and the local college stations such as KALX. Even ABC tried to get into it with a syndicated FM format called "Love", which ran on KGO-FM.

So, what exactly is the San Francisco sound today?
 
David, you forgot another sound... How about the top 40 battle sounds between KEWB/91 and KYA/1260? They battled it out until KFRC/610 joined in and toppled KEWB as the teen's favorite. KEWB changed call lettersto KNEW and went MOR music against KSFO. This was the same era when KDIA & KSAN (KSOL) battled for dominance that you mentioned earlier.
 
Well I am 44, and from what I remember from Bay Area radio, is:

KJAZ "Dinner Jazz"
K-101 under James Gabbert and the AC format
KKCY "The City" San Francisco's Record Collection
KSAN The Jive 95
KMPX Big Band
KFRC The Big 610, Dr. Don etc.
KSFX FM 104 Rocks
KMEL (Camel 106) Rockin' The Bay!!!
KFOG Bright and Beautiful KFOG
KYUU The Hits Keep Coming
KSFO/KYA Rock and Roll Classics
KRQR The Rocker

These are some of my radio past that are forever gone. Better then what we have now.
 
DaveBayArea said:
This weekend, maybe 1/4 of the population of San Francisco will be in Golden Gate Park to listen to music. Is that what San Francisco sounds like? Take a look at the schedule & tell me how many of these bands are played on San Francisco radio:

http://www.strictlybluegrass.com/2011/artists.shtml

Dave B.

Interesting line-up this time around, especially Bob Mould, formerly of punk band Husker Du. He has said that he hates his past and now prefers to DJ at gay clubs around the nation. So, he's going to do a DJ set or what exactly?

I'm happy to see Justin Townes Earle back again (son of Steve Earle). He's great.

You're absolutely right, of course, that few of the artists at HSBG are ever played on the radio. However, most of these choices are not made by attendance figures or the result of other mass appeal; they're made by Dawn, the booker at Slim's and by Warren Hellman himself, who, of course, bankrolls this series.

That's a big difference from some of the other music festivals around town such as the past Outside Lands festival and the upcoming Treasure Island festival. They're both more commercial, and depend on ticket sales to operate, unlike HSBG.
 
DavidKaye said:
DaveBayArea said:
This weekend, maybe 1/4 of the population of San Francisco will be in Golden Gate Park to listen to music. Is that what San Francisco sounds like? Take a look at the schedule & tell me how many of these bands are played on San Francisco radio:

http://www.strictlybluegrass.com/2011/artists.shtml

Dave B.

Interesting line-up this time around, especially Bob Mould, formerly of punk band Husker Du. He has said that he hates his past and now prefers to DJ at gay clubs around the nation. So, he's going to do a DJ set or what exactly?

I'm happy to see Justin Townes Earle back again (son of Steve Earle). He's great.

You're absolutely right, of course, that few of the artists at HSBG are ever played on the radio. However, most of these choices are not made by attendance figures or the result of other mass appeal; they're made by Dawn, the booker at Slim's and by Warren Hellman himself, who, of course, bankrolls this series.

That's a big difference from some of the other music festivals around town such as the past Outside Lands festival and the upcoming Treasure Island festival. They're both more commercial, and depend on ticket sales to operate, unlike HSBG.

Bob Mould is still putting out albums (most recent was 2009). Plus he just released an autobiography, and has been a bit more open in regard to talking about the Husker Du years (he avoided it for a long time). Heard him recently in an interview on the public radio show "Sound Opinions" (though this may have been a repeat).
 
FightingIrish said:
Bob Mould is still putting out albums (most recent was 2009). Plus he just released an autobiography, and has been a bit more open in regard to talking about the Husker Du years (he avoided it for a long time). Heard him recently in an interview on the public radio show "Sound Opinions" (though this may have been a repeat).

The guy I couldn't stand in the 80s is now the guy I can't get away from. I happened to be at the Lone Star on Harrison Street and there as a poster about some DJ stuff he was doing there.

Do any local stations play Husker Du music? Or for that matter, since he's apparently performing (or at least as recently as 2009) do any stations play that stuff?
 
I don't know if this fits some concept of a "San Francisco sound" - but since we're nominating excellent stations of the past, I'll mention KRE FM "103" - the forerunner to KBLX on 102.9. In the last years before the station was sold to Inner City, they had an inventive Jazz Fusion format. It was kind of a fore-runner to Smooth Jazz, but featured much more inventive music (for the most part) than either KBLX or KKSF.
 
kenb said:
David, you forgot another sound... How about the top 40 battle sounds between KEWB/91 and KYA/1260? They battled it out until KFRC/610 joined in and toppled KEWB as the teen's favorite. KEWB changed call lettersto KNEW and went MOR music against KSFO.

You sure about KEWB? I remember coming home from Vietnam in early summer of 1966 and hanging out at Stinson Beach one day listening to KEWB. It was the last day they were Top-40 and the next day they were all-news. If they changed calls and went MOR it was most likely after their stint as a news talker. Or did they go to the new calls immediately?

I never tried listening to KEWB after they flipped. Then it was either KYA or KGO-FM (103.7).
 
landtuna said:
kenb said:
David, you forgot another sound... How about the top 40 battle sounds between KEWB/91 and KYA/1260? They battled it out until KFRC/610 joined in and toppled KEWB as the teen's favorite. KEWB changed call lettersto KNEW and went MOR music against KSFO.

You sure about KEWB? I remember coming home from Vietnam in early summer of 1966 and hanging out at Stinson Beach one day listening to KEWB. It was the last day they were Top-40 and the next day they were all-news. If they changed calls and went MOR it was most likely after their stint as a news talker. Or did they go to the new calls immediately?

I never tried listening to KEWB after they flipped. Then it was either KYA or KGO-FM (103.7).

I didn't live here at the time, but thought 910 AM flipped from Top 40 to talk. Metromedia had purchased KEWB, and was hoping to mirror their success with KLAC in LA, which was the Number 1 station there for a few years. The call letters changed to KNEW, to echo their WNEW in New York. I don't recall that 910 ever had an All News format.

The MOR format came later, because the talk format was not a success. Apparently lighting did not strike twice for Metromedia.
 
Lkeller said:
I didn't live here at the time, but thought 910 AM flipped from Top 40 to talk.

Perhaps it is incorrect but I used news/talk interchangeably since "talkers" didn't seem to be a formal genre back in the 60's. I thought their main product was news although I don't remember listening to them.

I was really bummed because some of their jocks had come from Tucson's KTKT about the same time I had moved from Tucson to the Bay Area. They also had Kasey Kasem.

Lkeller said:
The MOR format came later, because the talk format was not a success.

That's what I remember as well although I moved away in '68 so their second flip may be something I just read later.
 
landtuna said:
Lkeller said:
I didn't live here at the time, but thought 910 AM flipped from Top 40 to talk.

Perhaps it is incorrect but I used news/talk interchangeably since "talkers" didn't seem to be a formal genre back in the 60's. I thought their main product was news although I don't remember listening to them.

I was really bummed because some of their jocks had come from Tucson's KTKT about the same time I had moved from Tucson to the Bay Area. They also had Kasey Kasem.

Lkeller said:
The MOR format came later, because the talk format was not a success.

That's what I remember as well although I moved away in '68 so their second flip may be something I just read later.

Not trying to split hairs, but I've always thought of "NewsTalk" as the KGO model - a station with talk shows, but also a full commitment to news, including news blocks in morning and afternoon. So to me, KGO is NewsTalk, while KSFO is just Talk.

Growing up in LA, KABC had that NewsTalk model, while KLAC (KNEW's sister station) was all talk, except for the obligatory 5 minutes of news at the top of the hour, and update on the :30. My mother liked KABC in the late 60s, which had some deep-voiced profound sounding anchor (can't remember his name) who had a 2 hour all-news program in the afternoon, with cut-ins from ABC - much as KGO does to this day.

So I would assume KNEW was on that Talk model, though I don't know for sure.
 
How quickly they forget...

There was a thread on here just over a year ago. Tripton99, a contributor here, was talker Joe Dolan's producer, and had been hired at KEWB/KNEW prior to its repositioning from MOR to talker.

Here's what he had to say, "In about May of '66 Crowell Collier sold KEWB to Metromedia. I joined KEWB in August of 1966, replacing Peter Laufer as the go-fer in the news/programming dept. Soon there after they changed call letters to KNEW, getting the calls from a station in Spokane. The first imaging campaign for KEWB/KNEW was "Radio Free Oakland." The original morning show host was Jack Lacy with Van amber in Mid days. It was invisioned to be a WNEW of the West Coast. Original PD was Don French, a carry-over from the CC days. The news department was spectacular with truly great journalists like Gil Haar, Mike Powell, Norm Woodruff, Mike Forrest and Jim Simon among the crew. The only talk show on the station in those days was Joe Dolan's 10p-1am show Monday thru Friday. I produced the show.

Sometime in '68 the station went 24/7 as a talk station with Dolan in the morning and returned to music in, I think, late '69 with talent like Dean Webber, Jack Hayes, Ron Lyons, Ron Reynolds and I am sure I am missing some important ones as well.

I left in before Don Chamberlain began California Girls so I will leave it to others. Don was, during my time, a newsman and a wonderful guy. "

Here's a link to that thread about KEWB/KNEW: http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?action=printpage;topic=89352.0
 
DavidKaye said:
How quickly they forget...

There was a thread on here just over a year ago. Tripton99, a contributor here, was talker Joe Dolan's producer, and had been hired at KEWB/KNEW prior to its repositioning from MOR to talker.

Here's what he had to say, "In about May of '66 Crowell Collier sold KEWB to Metromedia. I joined KEWB in August of 1966, replacing Peter Laufer as the go-fer in the news/programming dept. Soon there after they changed call letters to KNEW, getting the calls from a station in Spokane. The first imaging campaign for KEWB/KNEW was "Radio Free Oakland." The original morning show host was Jack Lacy with Van amber in Mid days. It was invisioned to be a WNEW of the West Coast. Original PD was Don French, a carry-over from the CC days. The news department was spectacular with truly great journalists like Gil Haar, Mike Powell, Norm Woodruff, Mike Forrest and Jim Simon among the crew. The only talk show on the station in those days was Joe Dolan's 10p-1am show Monday thru Friday. I produced the show.

Sometime in '68 the station went 24/7 as a talk station with Dolan in the morning and returned to music in, I think, late '69 with talent like Dean Webber, Jack Hayes, Ron Lyons, Ron Reynolds and I am sure I am missing some important ones as well.

I left in before Don Chamberlain began California Girls so I will leave it to others. Don was, during my time, a newsman and a wonderful guy. "

Here's a link to that thread about KEWB/KNEW: http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?action=printpage;topic=89352.0

Hey - I'm 59 - my memory ain't so...uh...what were we talking about? I guess I made the erroneous assumption that KNEW went talk right away under Metromedia because their KLAC in LA was killing in the ratings in the mid 60s, so it made logical sense that they would try to duplicate that in the Bay Area.

In LA, KLAC's morning talker - the incendiary Joe Pyne - was beating everybody, including Robert W. Morgan on KHJ, Dick Whittinghill on KMPC, and Bob Crane on KNX. Their other talk hosts were popular too - including Joel A. Spivak and (in a bit of a "6 Degrees..." style connection) former KEWB DJ Roy Elwell
 
Lkeller said:
In LA, KLAC's morning talker - the incendiary Joe Pyne - was beating everybody, including Robert W. Morgan on KHJ, Dick Whittinghill on KMPC, and Bob Crane on KNX. Their other talk hosts were popular too - including Joel A. Spivak and (in a bit of a "6 Degrees..." style connection) former KEWB DJ Roy Elwell

What works some places doesn't work in others. Joe Pyne was on one of the SJ stations, I think KXRX, and he didn't last very long. Roy Elwell I last remembered from KFRC pre-Drake, and when he came back to the Bay Area a few years later to KGO he3 bombed, even after KGO did a big to-do, "Elwell is back." Elwell might have worked previously in the Bay Area because there were few talkers in the early days.
 
DavidKaye said:
Lkeller said:
In LA, KLAC's morning talker - the incendiary Joe Pyne - was beating everybody, including Robert W. Morgan on KHJ, Dick Whittinghill on KMPC, and Bob Crane on KNX. Their other talk hosts were popular too - including Joel A. Spivak and (in a bit of a "6 Degrees..." style connection) former KEWB DJ Roy Elwell

What works some places doesn't work in others. Joe Pyne was on one of the SJ stations, I think KXRX, and he didn't last very long. Roy Elwell I last remembered from KFRC pre-Drake, and when he came back to the Bay Area a few years later to KGO he3 bombed, even after KGO did a big to-do, "Elwell is back." Elwell might have worked previously in the Bay Area because there were few talkers in the early days.

On KEWB, prior to KLAC, Elwell was a DJ - as "Scott Bridges" and possibly under his own name, but not a talker. I can understand why Joe Pyne bombed here...but Elwell was a thoughtful liberal, and not mean to people on air. You'd think he'd be a good fit here and a good fit for KGO. He did well in LA in the late 60s and 70s, though - even did some local LA television.
 
Lkeller said:
On KEWB, prior to KLAC, Elwell was a DJ - as "Scott Bridges" and possibly under his own name, but not a talker. I can understand why Joe Pyne bombed here...but Elwell was a thoughtful liberal, and not mean to people on air. You'd think he'd be a good fit here and a good fit for KGO. He did well in LA in the late 60s and 70s, though - even did some local LA television.

However, Roy Elwell did have a nightly talkshow on KFRC pre-Drake. He appeared to have a very successful show, given that the station ran lots of ads and got lots of phone calls. I seem to remember him on KFRC from about 1963 to 66, but I may be wrong. I assume he went from DJ on KEWB to talker on KFRC then to talker on KLAC. But when he returned to the Bay Area at KGO in 1972 he barely lasted more than a month, even with KGO's intense promotion.

It was thanks to Roy Elwell that I learned the jazz standard, St. Thomas. It's still one of my favorite jazz tunes. That was his them when he was a KFRC talker.
 
DavidKaye said:
Lkeller said:
On KEWB, prior to KLAC, Elwell was a DJ - as "Scott Bridges" and possibly under his own name, but not a talker. I can understand why Joe Pyne bombed here...but Elwell was a thoughtful liberal, and not mean to people on air. You'd think he'd be a good fit here and a good fit for KGO. He did well in LA in the late 60s and 70s, though - even did some local LA television.

However, Roy Elwell did have a nightly talkshow on KFRC pre-Drake. He appeared to have a very successful show, given that the station ran lots of ads and got lots of phone calls. I seem to remember him on KFRC from about 1963 to 66, but I may be wrong. I assume he went from DJ on KEWB to talker on KFRC then to talker on KLAC. But when he returned to the Bay Area at KGO in 1972 he barely lasted more than a month, even with KGO's intense promotion.

It was thanks to Roy Elwell that I learned the jazz standard, St. Thomas. It's still one of my favorite jazz tunes. That was his them when he was a KFRC talker.

The talk hosts at KLAC all had their individual theme songs. Most of them seemed to prefer Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass - but Elwell probably used St. Thomas at KLAC. Can't recall...
 
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