Friday is the last day. Story at http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/12774593.htm
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WHAT dropping Air America
- Thread starter Zzzzz
- Start date
R
radiophile
Guest
Let the speculation begin
> Friday is the last day. Story at
> http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/12774593.htm
>
Air America says they're talking to another station. Any bets?
> Friday is the last day. Story at
> http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/12774593.htm
>
Air America says they're talking to another station. Any bets?
B
BobAltimari
Guest
Re: Let the speculation begin
> > Friday is the last day. Story at
> > http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/12774593.htm
> >
> Air America says they're talking to another station. Any
> bets?
>
Moreover, what will be in store for 1340?
Will urban n/t be more prominent or will the parent company buy the farm and tank it altogether?
As far as Air America? Ahhhhhhhh, who cares!
I hope they never get cleared in Philly again...what a bunch of pointless whining drivel.<P ID="signature">______________
I've done it all...HOO HOO...tell 'em, Fred!
FOX News Alert: YOU SUCK!!! Ya like apples?</P>
> > Friday is the last day. Story at
> > http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/12774593.htm
> >
> Air America says they're talking to another station. Any
> bets?
>
Moreover, what will be in store for 1340?
Will urban n/t be more prominent or will the parent company buy the farm and tank it altogether?
As far as Air America? Ahhhhhhhh, who cares!
I hope they never get cleared in Philly again...what a bunch of pointless whining drivel.<P ID="signature">______________
I've done it all...HOO HOO...tell 'em, Fred!
FOX News Alert: YOU SUCK!!! Ya like apples?</P>
Re: Let the speculation begin
> > Friday is the last day. Story at
> > http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/12774593.htm
> >
> Air America says they're talking to another station. Any
> bets?
>
Possibilities could be 800, 860 (Imus, Springer, Franken, Rhodes), 900, 1360, 1480...but what about the long-awaited move-in from central Pa. on 1180? Anyone know the status of that? Last time it was mentioned here was months ago when the startup was rumored to be soon. It would be the one choice where no existing programming would be displaced.
> > Friday is the last day. Story at
> > http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/12774593.htm
> >
> Air America says they're talking to another station. Any
> bets?
>
Possibilities could be 800, 860 (Imus, Springer, Franken, Rhodes), 900, 1360, 1480...but what about the long-awaited move-in from central Pa. on 1180? Anyone know the status of that? Last time it was mentioned here was months ago when the startup was rumored to be soon. It would be the one choice where no existing programming would be displaced.
1180 Move-in
According to the FCC website, the CP to move WFYL from 1530 in McConnellsburg to 1180 in King of Prussia lapsed in August 2004. It appears that the station is now silent.
Bill
According to the FCC website, the CP to move WFYL from 1530 in McConnellsburg to 1180 in King of Prussia lapsed in August 2004. It appears that the station is now silent.
Bill
M
mwebster
Guest
Re: Let the speculation continue
Possibilities also include nobody takes programs from Air America or a suburban station with partial or limited coverage of the Philly market may pick up some programs. (920 AM in Trenton promotes themselves as a Philly sportstalk station even though they can be heard clearly in only a limited portion of the geographic market area. Democracy Radio claims WCOJ in Coatesville as a Philadelphia affiliate for Ed Schultz.)
In the top 10 markets:
Houston (and now Philadelphia) have no stations taking AAR programs.
Chicago has partial coverage, daytime only.
Of the possibilities already mentioned, at least some - if not most - of the stations are currently profitable with paid religion or brokered programming. They would have little if any incentive to give up their current revenue sources to take programming from Air America unless AAR pays them to. (Note: I have no indication AAR has paid for clearances although there has been speculation to that effect. Apparently, Democracy Radio has paid to clear Ed Schultz and/or Stephanie Miller, not that there's anything wrong with that.)
The best hope for progressive talk in Philly is if Sportstalk 950 does as well as Real Oldies 950. As they used to say in Brooklyn, "wait 'til next year." I think progressive talk missed it's last good chance for a while with WPEN.
If I were in affiliate sales for AAR or Democracy Radio, I'd be pitching WHWH 1350 in Princeton. The station is business talk and not all brokered (meaning they have to sell spots already). Progressive talk does well in college towns. And the station has no where to go but up. They've got an OK signal and with good promotion they could make a dent in the Middlesex-Somerset market.
Dark horse candidates would be: 1440 WNPV, Lansdale and 1290 The Ticket, Wilmington.
> Possibilities could be 800, 860 (Imus, Springer, Franken,
> Rhodes), 900, 1360, 1480...but what about the long-awaited
> move-in from central Pa. on 1180? Anyone know the status of
> that? Last time it was mentioned here was months ago when
> the startup was rumored to be soon. It would be the one
> choice where no existing programming would be displaced.
>
Possibilities also include nobody takes programs from Air America or a suburban station with partial or limited coverage of the Philly market may pick up some programs. (920 AM in Trenton promotes themselves as a Philly sportstalk station even though they can be heard clearly in only a limited portion of the geographic market area. Democracy Radio claims WCOJ in Coatesville as a Philadelphia affiliate for Ed Schultz.)
In the top 10 markets:
Houston (and now Philadelphia) have no stations taking AAR programs.
Chicago has partial coverage, daytime only.
Of the possibilities already mentioned, at least some - if not most - of the stations are currently profitable with paid religion or brokered programming. They would have little if any incentive to give up their current revenue sources to take programming from Air America unless AAR pays them to. (Note: I have no indication AAR has paid for clearances although there has been speculation to that effect. Apparently, Democracy Radio has paid to clear Ed Schultz and/or Stephanie Miller, not that there's anything wrong with that.)
The best hope for progressive talk in Philly is if Sportstalk 950 does as well as Real Oldies 950. As they used to say in Brooklyn, "wait 'til next year." I think progressive talk missed it's last good chance for a while with WPEN.
If I were in affiliate sales for AAR or Democracy Radio, I'd be pitching WHWH 1350 in Princeton. The station is business talk and not all brokered (meaning they have to sell spots already). Progressive talk does well in college towns. And the station has no where to go but up. They've got an OK signal and with good promotion they could make a dent in the Middlesex-Somerset market.
Dark horse candidates would be: 1440 WNPV, Lansdale and 1290 The Ticket, Wilmington.
> Possibilities could be 800, 860 (Imus, Springer, Franken,
> Rhodes), 900, 1360, 1480...but what about the long-awaited
> move-in from central Pa. on 1180? Anyone know the status of
> that? Last time it was mentioned here was months ago when
> the startup was rumored to be soon. It would be the one
> choice where no existing programming would be displaced.
>
Re: 1180 Move-in
> Bill, Scott Fybush mentioned in a recent NERW that he'd run
> into 1180 owner Alex Langer while on a trip to Boston.
> Langer told him that he'd gotten the WFYL
> CP "tolled" so it's still viable. Scott, do I have it right?
You do.
Last word from Alex is that he's hoping to get 1180 on in the spring.<P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2006 JUST RELEASED! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>
> Bill, Scott Fybush mentioned in a recent NERW that he'd run
> into 1180 owner Alex Langer while on a trip to Boston.
> Langer told him that he'd gotten the WFYL
> CP "tolled" so it's still viable. Scott, do I have it right?
You do.
Last word from Alex is that he's hoping to get 1180 on in the spring.<P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2006 JUST RELEASED! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>
Re: Let the speculation continue
> (Note: I have no indication AAR has paid for
> clearances although there has been speculation to that
> effect. Apparently, Democracy Radio has paid to clear Ed
> Schultz and/or Stephanie Miller, not that there's anything
> wrong with that.)
AAR started out leasing time directly on stations in New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles. WLIB in New York is the only station that is currently leased by AAR.
There was talk of leasing other stations (San Francisco, for one), but this never happened. Riverside, Portland, West Palm Beach and Minneapolis were also part of the inaugural lineup. The affiliate in Minneapolis was leased by Janet Robert, who aired Franken, Ed Schultz and local host Wendy Wilde. KCAA in Riverside, CA airs only a couple shows, and I doubt it's leased (given that KTLK in Los Angeles comes in there). Portland is a barter market. And Randi Rhodes' show originally aired in West Palm Beach.
<P ID="signature">______________
The Liberal Talk Radio Update</P>
> (Note: I have no indication AAR has paid for
> clearances although there has been speculation to that
> effect. Apparently, Democracy Radio has paid to clear Ed
> Schultz and/or Stephanie Miller, not that there's anything
> wrong with that.)
AAR started out leasing time directly on stations in New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles. WLIB in New York is the only station that is currently leased by AAR.
There was talk of leasing other stations (San Francisco, for one), but this never happened. Riverside, Portland, West Palm Beach and Minneapolis were also part of the inaugural lineup. The affiliate in Minneapolis was leased by Janet Robert, who aired Franken, Ed Schultz and local host Wendy Wilde. KCAA in Riverside, CA airs only a couple shows, and I doubt it's leased (given that KTLK in Los Angeles comes in there). Portland is a barter market. And Randi Rhodes' show originally aired in West Palm Beach.
<P ID="signature">______________
The Liberal Talk Radio Update</P>
M
mwebster
Guest
Re: Let the speculation continue
No, I'm not talking about leasing.
Some very popular shows (like Rush) charge stations a fee to carry the program.
Some are free. The syndicator gets some avails; the station gets some avails to sell. Most syndicated shows fall in this category.
Some syndicators pay stations to carry the show (in addition to avails for the station to sell). Democracy Radio does this on at least some stations as part of its plan to "nurture and develop" progressive talk radio talent. Once a show becomes established and has a good track record, often the fee ends and the program becomes either free or requires a fee to the syndicator. Whatever the market will bear.
Under a leasing arrangement, like originally planned, the station does not get avails to sell. The producer/syndicator network buys the time outright.
So, the question is does AAR pay any kind of incentive fee to some stations to take specific programs, with stations also able to sell time on their own?
If one of the marginal AM's in this market is in the black with brokered programming, without any incentive there is little reason for them to take on the progressive talk format. They have to hire a local sales force and go out and sell time and that's not sure a thing. And lower powered, lower rated AM stations don't get a lot of agency buys. Brokered programs, on the other hand, preachers - infomercials - and shows like the Geator's/Jay Lamont's/Fred Sherman/Frank Rizzo/ et al are like an annuity.
>
> AAR started out leasing time directly on stations in New
> York, Chicago, and Los Angeles. WLIB in New York is the
> only station that is currently leased by AAR.
>
> There was talk of leasing other stations (San Francisco, for
> one), but this never happened. Riverside, Portland, West
> Palm Beach and Minneapolis were also part of the inaugural
> lineup. The affiliate in Minneapolis was leased by Janet
> Robert, who aired Franken, Ed Schultz and local host Wendy
> Wilde. KCAA in Riverside, CA airs only a couple shows, and
> I doubt it's leased (given that KTLK in Los Angeles comes in
> there). Portland is a barter market. And Randi Rhodes'
> show originally aired in West Palm Beach.
>
No, I'm not talking about leasing.
Some very popular shows (like Rush) charge stations a fee to carry the program.
Some are free. The syndicator gets some avails; the station gets some avails to sell. Most syndicated shows fall in this category.
Some syndicators pay stations to carry the show (in addition to avails for the station to sell). Democracy Radio does this on at least some stations as part of its plan to "nurture and develop" progressive talk radio talent. Once a show becomes established and has a good track record, often the fee ends and the program becomes either free or requires a fee to the syndicator. Whatever the market will bear.
Under a leasing arrangement, like originally planned, the station does not get avails to sell. The producer/syndicator network buys the time outright.
So, the question is does AAR pay any kind of incentive fee to some stations to take specific programs, with stations also able to sell time on their own?
If one of the marginal AM's in this market is in the black with brokered programming, without any incentive there is little reason for them to take on the progressive talk format. They have to hire a local sales force and go out and sell time and that's not sure a thing. And lower powered, lower rated AM stations don't get a lot of agency buys. Brokered programs, on the other hand, preachers - infomercials - and shows like the Geator's/Jay Lamont's/Fred Sherman/Frank Rizzo/ et al are like an annuity.
>
> AAR started out leasing time directly on stations in New
> York, Chicago, and Los Angeles. WLIB in New York is the
> only station that is currently leased by AAR.
>
> There was talk of leasing other stations (San Francisco, for
> one), but this never happened. Riverside, Portland, West
> Palm Beach and Minneapolis were also part of the inaugural
> lineup. The affiliate in Minneapolis was leased by Janet
> Robert, who aired Franken, Ed Schultz and local host Wendy
> Wilde. KCAA in Riverside, CA airs only a couple shows, and
> I doubt it's leased (given that KTLK in Los Angeles comes in
> there). Portland is a barter market. And Randi Rhodes'
> show originally aired in West Palm Beach.
>
W
wxctintern
Guest
Re: Let the speculation begin
Yup. Air America is boring. Though in my opinion Jerry Springer is a good host. I think he's much better on Air America than on his Sleeze Fest TV Show. Keep in mind I don't live in Philly so I don't know whether or not WHAT 1340 carried Jerry Springer.
Yup. Air America is boring. Though in my opinion Jerry Springer is a good host. I think he's much better on Air America than on his Sleeze Fest TV Show. Keep in mind I don't live in Philly so I don't know whether or not WHAT 1340 carried Jerry Springer.
B
BobAltimari
Guest
Re: 1180 Move-in
> > Bill, Scott Fybush mentioned in a recent NERW that he'd
> run
> > into 1180 owner Alex Langer while on a trip to Boston.
> > Langer told him that he'd gotten the WFYL
> > CP "tolled" so it's still viable. Scott, do I have it
> right?
>
> You do.
>
> Last word from Alex is that he's hoping to get 1180 on in
> the spring.
>
Scott (or anyone else that might know), what has been the problem with WFYL? Is it that they need a place to transmit from? I assume studio space wouldn't be an issue, especially if they broadcast from their COL (which, I believe, would be King of Prussia, IIRC). <P ID="signature">______________
I've done it all...HOO HOO...tell 'em, Fred!
FOX News Alert: YOU SUCK!!! Ya like apples?</P>
> > Bill, Scott Fybush mentioned in a recent NERW that he'd
> run
> > into 1180 owner Alex Langer while on a trip to Boston.
> > Langer told him that he'd gotten the WFYL
> > CP "tolled" so it's still viable. Scott, do I have it
> right?
>
> You do.
>
> Last word from Alex is that he's hoping to get 1180 on in
> the spring.
>
Scott (or anyone else that might know), what has been the problem with WFYL? Is it that they need a place to transmit from? I assume studio space wouldn't be an issue, especially if they broadcast from their COL (which, I believe, would be King of Prussia, IIRC). <P ID="signature">______________
I've done it all...HOO HOO...tell 'em, Fred!
FOX News Alert: YOU SUCK!!! Ya like apples?</P>
Re: 1180 Move-in
I would think the problem (and the reason why the CP got tolled) is that they can't build a site anywhere near KofP. WPEN was only able to get their 21kw night signal on the air by borrowing WWDB's site at sundown. They've been trying to build a new day site (and, presumably a site to move their night service to) near the WWDB towers for years, and can't get it done.
WWJZ (640), the last I heard, wants to change its City of License to Horsham, PA, and build a 9-tower array up Boyertown way. And it's an amazing thing - if you throw 25kw at Horsham from Boyertown, you'll be aimed right at Philadelphia. Purely a coincidence, of course. Horsham is the 2,345th-largest town in Pennsylvania, fully deserving of its "own" radio station.
Bill
I would think the problem (and the reason why the CP got tolled) is that they can't build a site anywhere near KofP. WPEN was only able to get their 21kw night signal on the air by borrowing WWDB's site at sundown. They've been trying to build a new day site (and, presumably a site to move their night service to) near the WWDB towers for years, and can't get it done.
WWJZ (640), the last I heard, wants to change its City of License to Horsham, PA, and build a 9-tower array up Boyertown way. And it's an amazing thing - if you throw 25kw at Horsham from Boyertown, you'll be aimed right at Philadelphia. Purely a coincidence, of course. Horsham is the 2,345th-largest town in Pennsylvania, fully deserving of its "own" radio station.
Bill
Re: 1180 Move-in
Bob, as far as I know, it was an equipment problem originally. WFYL was to run 2.3 kW diplexed from the WWDB-860 site. The filtering networks weren't ready on time once the CP was approved. So Langer had to resubmit an alternate application using 510 watts into a 75' Valcom fiberglass antenna. This is the "tolled" CP. I think Scott can confirm this as well.......
Dave Gardiner
WVCH 740
Chester/Philadelphia
Bob, as far as I know, it was an equipment problem originally. WFYL was to run 2.3 kW diplexed from the WWDB-860 site. The filtering networks weren't ready on time once the CP was approved. So Langer had to resubmit an alternate application using 510 watts into a 75' Valcom fiberglass antenna. This is the "tolled" CP. I think Scott can confirm this as well.......
Dave Gardiner
WVCH 740
Chester/Philadelphia
Re: 1180 Move-in
> Bob, as far as I know, it was an equipment problem
> originally. WFYL was to run 2.3 kW diplexed from the
> WWDB-860 site. The filtering networks weren't ready on time
> once the CP was approved. So Langer had to resubmit an
> alternate application using 510 watts into a 75' Valcom
> fiberglass antenna. This is the "tolled" CP. I think Scott
> can confirm this as well.......
>
Actually, it's a 92' Valcom Fibreglass whip--the first ever of this size. Langer bought the prototype from Valcom and has physical posession of it (not sure where; these things roll up into a circle for shipment, but it's a pretty big-diameter circle. My guess is that it's somewhere near KoP because shipping has got to be a headache.)
Anyhow, my understanding is that the local building permit is the problem. Langer has a site and he had to make some measurements because it's quite close to a high-voltage powerline. I suspect that Langer gave up on the WWDB site because of the difficulty in getting local permission to build the two additional towers that were required there. With 1180 out of the way, the WWDB site became a natural for WPEN at night. I am puzzled by why WPEN didn't also apply to use the site by day; the proposed 50-kW six-tower day-only operation from a site a few miles west of WWDB is still a legitimate CP (WPEN reapplied--and the FCC granted the new application--after WPEN decided to use the WWDB site at night). 50-kW is probably impossible from WWDB's four existing towers, but 10 or 15 kW ought to work and would be probably be superior to WPEN's existing 5 kW ND operation. I imagine that if GM had made Beasley the right offer, the diplex, which would be more complicated than the 21-kW night-only operation, would have become acceptable. One problem is that WPEN would require a waiver to run even 15 kW from the WWDB site because the 5 mV/m contour would not cover 100% of Philadelphia.
> Bob, as far as I know, it was an equipment problem
> originally. WFYL was to run 2.3 kW diplexed from the
> WWDB-860 site. The filtering networks weren't ready on time
> once the CP was approved. So Langer had to resubmit an
> alternate application using 510 watts into a 75' Valcom
> fiberglass antenna. This is the "tolled" CP. I think Scott
> can confirm this as well.......
>
Actually, it's a 92' Valcom Fibreglass whip--the first ever of this size. Langer bought the prototype from Valcom and has physical posession of it (not sure where; these things roll up into a circle for shipment, but it's a pretty big-diameter circle. My guess is that it's somewhere near KoP because shipping has got to be a headache.)
Anyhow, my understanding is that the local building permit is the problem. Langer has a site and he had to make some measurements because it's quite close to a high-voltage powerline. I suspect that Langer gave up on the WWDB site because of the difficulty in getting local permission to build the two additional towers that were required there. With 1180 out of the way, the WWDB site became a natural for WPEN at night. I am puzzled by why WPEN didn't also apply to use the site by day; the proposed 50-kW six-tower day-only operation from a site a few miles west of WWDB is still a legitimate CP (WPEN reapplied--and the FCC granted the new application--after WPEN decided to use the WWDB site at night). 50-kW is probably impossible from WWDB's four existing towers, but 10 or 15 kW ought to work and would be probably be superior to WPEN's existing 5 kW ND operation. I imagine that if GM had made Beasley the right offer, the diplex, which would be more complicated than the 21-kW night-only operation, would have become acceptable. One problem is that WPEN would require a waiver to run even 15 kW from the WWDB site because the 5 mV/m contour would not cover 100% of Philadelphia.
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