this is long, get something to eat & drink ...
How come we have DTV (digital) TV but not HD (digital) radio, today?
I know there is a piggyback HD (digital system) by XPERI now but why haven’t radio broadcasters, the FCC and the NAB done what was done with TV . . . do away with analog and have only digital radio after say 5-10 years.
The FCC choose IBiquity in 2002 (now XPERI), but it seems to since be spinning its wheels.
The FCC did not demand analog radio go off I guess because in the case of DTV, the analog to DTV change would open up new frequencies for other users (wireless) so it was an incentive to shutdown analog TV and give some UHF TV channels to other users.
Moving digital TV to a smaller group of channels.
I worked in TV doing transmitter maintenance. I remember when DTV was introduced, the various ways of doing it and then the decision for the U.S. to use 8-VSB (ATSC).
PBS had seminars on DTV, they had a traveling bus that came out to our SF PBS TV station, the broadcast people in Northern California were invited to come and hear various discussions on this new technology. There were even demos. At the same time the public was being educated on the changes coming to TV.
The local SF ABC-TV station had seminars too, these seminars were open to all TV broadcast people in Northern California to attend and learn about DTV.
The TV stations and the public were given 9 years simulcasting analog and DTV . . . then in 2009 analog TV was tuned off.
It worked. The changeover was fun (for me and all the people at our station). I took calls from early users (viewers, many into high-end audio / video), it was fun talking to our viewers that were watching this new technology.
The U.S. choose 8-VSB. (ATSC 1.0), Europe choose OFDM (DVB)
There were some in the U.S. that wanted OFDM for the U.S. and additional test were made between 8-VSB and OFDM.
OFDM proved to be better, but if I recall correctly it needed more transmitter output power to cover the same area 8-VSB covered, but it was very forgiving when there were many errors in the signal. OFDM made a usable picture where 8-VSB had to have a signal that had much less errors to make a usable picture.
I recall reading an article at the time (in the mid 90’s) when the two different systems were being demonstrated in Washington, DC for various politicians.
The 8-VSB people carefully placed their receive antenna near a window and carefully pointed it to get the DTV 8-VSB test station in DC, to make a perfect picture on their receiver.
The article then pointed out that the group demonstrating OFDM threw their antenna on the floor, not caring where it was pointing and got a perfect picture!
We ended up with 8-VSB, which I recall U.S TV maker Zenith had something to do with it. Many felt 8-VSB was chosen because it was U.S. developed in full or in part by Zenith. The Zenith name today is now owned by LG Electronics (a South Korean TV manufacture).
Turns out the new ATSC TV system here in the U.S. (ATSC 3.0) now making its debut, uses - OFDM. It will eventually replace the ATSC 1.0 system we now have.
So my question, every time AM & FM radio in the U.S came up with a way to make things better for radio, for example, transmitting in Stereo for AM or later HD (for digital AM & FM) it seems to be handled the “wrong way”, like “it’ll figure itself out” thinking.
The FCC left analog radio on and digital kind of “piggybacks” on analog . . . after years of doing this we still have mainly analog AM and FM radio.
Kind of like the FCC did with AM stereo, why???
I recall I think 4 systems at one time (for AM stereo) and the FCC put it in the hands of “the marketplace, why?
I purchased a radio (and have it to this day) the famous SONY SRF-A100 that picked up 4 different AM stereo systems . . . it was a GREAT TOY, for a radio nerd (like me and many of you), it wasn’t for the average consumer!
I recall going to the NAB in Las Vegas in the early 90’s and going to the Kahn booth, real simple set-up he had. Leonard Kahn had about 4 different radios . . . all tuned to a local Vegas AM station transmitting his AM stereo standard.
It sounded good.
The Motorola booth had its C-QAM (I think it had a C in it) system on a radio, picking up the local AM station in Vegas transmitting C-QAM.
It sounded good.
There were even new cars outside you could sit in and hear AM Stereo.
It sounded good.
But Motorola had an issue . . . I recall the “platform motion” that you’d hear on the Motorola system on AM skip signals at night. The L & R channels would move back & forth.
It sounded bad.
To say it plain & simple . . . AM stereo went nowhere. Because in my opinion it was left to “the marketplace”.
Now we have the new system for digital AM & FM radio (XPERI) and it too seems to be going nowhere.
Partly because the FCC did not set a shut-off date for analog radio . . . they should!
Forget the thinking that we don’t need AM or the present FM band frequencies for another service, like was done with the DTV changeover. Instead shut down the present AM & FM bands for THE GOOD OF RADIO BROADCASTING in our country and make radio all digital on a new band/s over a 5 -10 year period.
During that time broadcasters will simulcast analog & digital but digital will all be on a new band/s.
And the only radios made from that point on will be digital receiving only the new bands.
Why don’t AM & FM broadcasters unite and demand that to happen, demand that what was done to TV be done to radio?
No more piggybacking on present analog AM or FM.
Give an analog to digital converter too, like was done with DTV so a person can use their analog radio forever if they want to.
Yes, we now have streaming and maybe that will be the way to get radio & TV in the future – but radio didn’t even really try hard to be AM Stereo and now HD going back into the 70’s/80’s/90’s and early 2000’s . . . it seemed it was always done in a poorly managed fashion.
The AM & FM HD (digital) thing we have now seems to be limping along, still!
AM & FM radio is still analog, overall.
But with TV, analog TV is gone and we now have digital TV.
I feel AM & FM broadcasters were/are as much a part of the problem as the NAB & FCC.
I recall that some felt that present FM broadcasters did not want additional competition from AM’s, if they all had the same good quality sound on a new band.
I feel this change to digital only radio would help radio to stay in all cars, gas & electric cars. And in many cases end the interference issue we now have especially on AM in cars, homes and businesses.
IF THIS WAS DONE, WILL FINALLY HAVE DIGITAL RADIO . . . NO MORE AM & FM
NOTE - if you want to still play around on AM ( I'd like it ) let stations go digital only on the present AM band and do it with as much power as they want to use up to 50 kw. But those stations would still have to have a facility on the new digital band/s also.
Maybe each station could have a digital code in its signal on the old AM band where you'd only hear the desired station by telling the radio the code of a particular station you want to listen to . . . no more DA systems needed. There could be 10 signals you're hearing on say 770 but you'd only hear the one you want!
It'll be fun with skywave signals!
Don't know if this could work but it could be tried.
Or let’s keep waiting when “maybe” everybody will stream instead?
Al
How come we have DTV (digital) TV but not HD (digital) radio, today?
I know there is a piggyback HD (digital system) by XPERI now but why haven’t radio broadcasters, the FCC and the NAB done what was done with TV . . . do away with analog and have only digital radio after say 5-10 years.
The FCC choose IBiquity in 2002 (now XPERI), but it seems to since be spinning its wheels.
The FCC did not demand analog radio go off I guess because in the case of DTV, the analog to DTV change would open up new frequencies for other users (wireless) so it was an incentive to shutdown analog TV and give some UHF TV channels to other users.
Moving digital TV to a smaller group of channels.
I worked in TV doing transmitter maintenance. I remember when DTV was introduced, the various ways of doing it and then the decision for the U.S. to use 8-VSB (ATSC).
PBS had seminars on DTV, they had a traveling bus that came out to our SF PBS TV station, the broadcast people in Northern California were invited to come and hear various discussions on this new technology. There were even demos. At the same time the public was being educated on the changes coming to TV.
The local SF ABC-TV station had seminars too, these seminars were open to all TV broadcast people in Northern California to attend and learn about DTV.
The TV stations and the public were given 9 years simulcasting analog and DTV . . . then in 2009 analog TV was tuned off.
It worked. The changeover was fun (for me and all the people at our station). I took calls from early users (viewers, many into high-end audio / video), it was fun talking to our viewers that were watching this new technology.
The U.S. choose 8-VSB. (ATSC 1.0), Europe choose OFDM (DVB)
There were some in the U.S. that wanted OFDM for the U.S. and additional test were made between 8-VSB and OFDM.
OFDM proved to be better, but if I recall correctly it needed more transmitter output power to cover the same area 8-VSB covered, but it was very forgiving when there were many errors in the signal. OFDM made a usable picture where 8-VSB had to have a signal that had much less errors to make a usable picture.
I recall reading an article at the time (in the mid 90’s) when the two different systems were being demonstrated in Washington, DC for various politicians.
The 8-VSB people carefully placed their receive antenna near a window and carefully pointed it to get the DTV 8-VSB test station in DC, to make a perfect picture on their receiver.
The article then pointed out that the group demonstrating OFDM threw their antenna on the floor, not caring where it was pointing and got a perfect picture!
We ended up with 8-VSB, which I recall U.S TV maker Zenith had something to do with it. Many felt 8-VSB was chosen because it was U.S. developed in full or in part by Zenith. The Zenith name today is now owned by LG Electronics (a South Korean TV manufacture).
Turns out the new ATSC TV system here in the U.S. (ATSC 3.0) now making its debut, uses - OFDM. It will eventually replace the ATSC 1.0 system we now have.
So my question, every time AM & FM radio in the U.S came up with a way to make things better for radio, for example, transmitting in Stereo for AM or later HD (for digital AM & FM) it seems to be handled the “wrong way”, like “it’ll figure itself out” thinking.
The FCC left analog radio on and digital kind of “piggybacks” on analog . . . after years of doing this we still have mainly analog AM and FM radio.
Kind of like the FCC did with AM stereo, why???
I recall I think 4 systems at one time (for AM stereo) and the FCC put it in the hands of “the marketplace, why?
I purchased a radio (and have it to this day) the famous SONY SRF-A100 that picked up 4 different AM stereo systems . . . it was a GREAT TOY, for a radio nerd (like me and many of you), it wasn’t for the average consumer!
I recall going to the NAB in Las Vegas in the early 90’s and going to the Kahn booth, real simple set-up he had. Leonard Kahn had about 4 different radios . . . all tuned to a local Vegas AM station transmitting his AM stereo standard.
It sounded good.
The Motorola booth had its C-QAM (I think it had a C in it) system on a radio, picking up the local AM station in Vegas transmitting C-QAM.
It sounded good.
There were even new cars outside you could sit in and hear AM Stereo.
It sounded good.
But Motorola had an issue . . . I recall the “platform motion” that you’d hear on the Motorola system on AM skip signals at night. The L & R channels would move back & forth.
It sounded bad.
To say it plain & simple . . . AM stereo went nowhere. Because in my opinion it was left to “the marketplace”.
Now we have the new system for digital AM & FM radio (XPERI) and it too seems to be going nowhere.
Partly because the FCC did not set a shut-off date for analog radio . . . they should!
Forget the thinking that we don’t need AM or the present FM band frequencies for another service, like was done with the DTV changeover. Instead shut down the present AM & FM bands for THE GOOD OF RADIO BROADCASTING in our country and make radio all digital on a new band/s over a 5 -10 year period.
During that time broadcasters will simulcast analog & digital but digital will all be on a new band/s.
And the only radios made from that point on will be digital receiving only the new bands.
Why don’t AM & FM broadcasters unite and demand that to happen, demand that what was done to TV be done to radio?
No more piggybacking on present analog AM or FM.
Give an analog to digital converter too, like was done with DTV so a person can use their analog radio forever if they want to.
Yes, we now have streaming and maybe that will be the way to get radio & TV in the future – but radio didn’t even really try hard to be AM Stereo and now HD going back into the 70’s/80’s/90’s and early 2000’s . . . it seemed it was always done in a poorly managed fashion.
The AM & FM HD (digital) thing we have now seems to be limping along, still!
AM & FM radio is still analog, overall.
But with TV, analog TV is gone and we now have digital TV.
I feel AM & FM broadcasters were/are as much a part of the problem as the NAB & FCC.
I recall that some felt that present FM broadcasters did not want additional competition from AM’s, if they all had the same good quality sound on a new band.
I feel this change to digital only radio would help radio to stay in all cars, gas & electric cars. And in many cases end the interference issue we now have especially on AM in cars, homes and businesses.
IF THIS WAS DONE, WILL FINALLY HAVE DIGITAL RADIO . . . NO MORE AM & FM
NOTE - if you want to still play around on AM ( I'd like it ) let stations go digital only on the present AM band and do it with as much power as they want to use up to 50 kw. But those stations would still have to have a facility on the new digital band/s also.
Maybe each station could have a digital code in its signal on the old AM band where you'd only hear the desired station by telling the radio the code of a particular station you want to listen to . . . no more DA systems needed. There could be 10 signals you're hearing on say 770 but you'd only hear the one you want!
It'll be fun with skywave signals!
Don't know if this could work but it could be tried.
Or let’s keep waiting when “maybe” everybody will stream instead?
Al
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