I am wondering why this station went into the garbage can? I remember in the late 80's early 90's that this station was a powerhouse of experience. They had the likes of Scott Atkinson, Bob Kirk, Ron Curtis, Gene Young, Bill Carey, etc.....that station was full of talent and experienced personnel. Why did everything go down the drain and suddenly they went from #1 to last place and a joke? Please enlighten me what happened to their image?
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What happened to WTVH?
- Thread starter ExPhotog
- Start date
From what I understand, WTVH's biggest problem is the ownership. Everyone I've heard from about this says all of the owners up to and including Meredith treated the station kindly. It was only after Granite Broadcasting took over, that things started to slide. It's a pretty similar situation at WKBW in Buffalo, which was also once-dominant, but has been crippled by Granite's poor ownership. The fact that WTVH and WKBW are affiliates of different networks (CBS and ABC, respectively) only furthers the blame against Granite, as opposed to network programming.
I don't think there was ever one singl" event that knocked WTVH off the map. But a very strong contributing factor would be the gradual departure of longtime primary anchor Ron Curtis. In the final few years before he retired, his duties were gradually reduced to co-anchoring the noon show. And by that point, the noon show was the only local news timeslot where WTVH was still winning. Once Curtis retired, it wouldn't be long before WIXT took over that battle. They still had some veteran talent in Liz Ayers and Maureen Green, but Ayers was also reduced to the noon show, eventually seeing the writing on the wall, and taking a managerial position at WCNY.
Since Ron Curtis retired, WTVH has been a shadow of its former self. Granite has clearly made the decision to hire new talent "on the cheap," mostly younger folks with little or no experience -- even moreso than the other stations in town. One recent shining example was the hiring of a weekend "weathercaster" who lacked a meteorology degree when she was first hired, and reported news during the week to justify a full-time schedule. Before that, the station gained plenty of criticism for turning it's 5:00 news into a half-newscast/half-infomercial type show, where news stories were seamlessly weaved amongst live interviews with sponsors. The market raged, and "Central New York LIVE!" was reverted back to a normal newscast.
In the midst of all this, WTVH has been changing its music, logo, slogans, etc. about once every year or two. Sure, freshen things up here and there. But you can't expect people to get hooked when you're carrying out these "wholesale reinventions" every year -- especially when you wind up with an on-air graphics package with standard fonts and plain elements that almost look like they were put together on a whim some rainy Saturday afternoon on Microsoft PowerPoint by some salesperson's kid on the family's home PC.
According to a short-lived blog created by a WTVH employee, most of the reporters today are one-man-bands. After the only remaining longtime anchor, Maureen Green, was suddenly let go right before Christmas, said blog also inferred that the newsroom is being left in the dark about its overall future. With morale that low, I'd imagine the only incentive to put forth a good effort would be for one's own resume tape, rather than for the benefit of the station.
Capping this all off, one of the recent articles in the Syracuse newspaper mentioned that Granite had declared bankruptcy, and is now actually under the control of one of its creditors. So not only is the original corporate management incompetent -- they're now being controlled by some other company that's never even been involved with broadcasting. And they obviously want to see profits increasing PRONTO. I'm very glad I don't work there. I almost feel bad for those that do, but WTVH has been lagging for longer than most of the current staff has worked there -- and if you're in journalism, you should have the investigative skills to know what you're getting into before you get into it.
For stations that do it well (and management that allows them to do well), local news has always been a profit center, and will continue to do so. But it seems that Granite just got too greedy. They thought they could hack away at expenses while maintaining that profit margin. Not only were they wrong, but at the same time, the other stations maintained (or even expanded) staffing to improve their own on-air product. Several years of cost-cutting caught up with Granite. Unless Granite's creditor sells WTVH to a company with very deep pockets, I doubt they'll ever recover.
I don't think there was ever one singl" event that knocked WTVH off the map. But a very strong contributing factor would be the gradual departure of longtime primary anchor Ron Curtis. In the final few years before he retired, his duties were gradually reduced to co-anchoring the noon show. And by that point, the noon show was the only local news timeslot where WTVH was still winning. Once Curtis retired, it wouldn't be long before WIXT took over that battle. They still had some veteran talent in Liz Ayers and Maureen Green, but Ayers was also reduced to the noon show, eventually seeing the writing on the wall, and taking a managerial position at WCNY.
Since Ron Curtis retired, WTVH has been a shadow of its former self. Granite has clearly made the decision to hire new talent "on the cheap," mostly younger folks with little or no experience -- even moreso than the other stations in town. One recent shining example was the hiring of a weekend "weathercaster" who lacked a meteorology degree when she was first hired, and reported news during the week to justify a full-time schedule. Before that, the station gained plenty of criticism for turning it's 5:00 news into a half-newscast/half-infomercial type show, where news stories were seamlessly weaved amongst live interviews with sponsors. The market raged, and "Central New York LIVE!" was reverted back to a normal newscast.
In the midst of all this, WTVH has been changing its music, logo, slogans, etc. about once every year or two. Sure, freshen things up here and there. But you can't expect people to get hooked when you're carrying out these "wholesale reinventions" every year -- especially when you wind up with an on-air graphics package with standard fonts and plain elements that almost look like they were put together on a whim some rainy Saturday afternoon on Microsoft PowerPoint by some salesperson's kid on the family's home PC.
According to a short-lived blog created by a WTVH employee, most of the reporters today are one-man-bands. After the only remaining longtime anchor, Maureen Green, was suddenly let go right before Christmas, said blog also inferred that the newsroom is being left in the dark about its overall future. With morale that low, I'd imagine the only incentive to put forth a good effort would be for one's own resume tape, rather than for the benefit of the station.
Capping this all off, one of the recent articles in the Syracuse newspaper mentioned that Granite had declared bankruptcy, and is now actually under the control of one of its creditors. So not only is the original corporate management incompetent -- they're now being controlled by some other company that's never even been involved with broadcasting. And they obviously want to see profits increasing PRONTO. I'm very glad I don't work there. I almost feel bad for those that do, but WTVH has been lagging for longer than most of the current staff has worked there -- and if you're in journalism, you should have the investigative skills to know what you're getting into before you get into it.
For stations that do it well (and management that allows them to do well), local news has always been a profit center, and will continue to do so. But it seems that Granite just got too greedy. They thought they could hack away at expenses while maintaining that profit margin. Not only were they wrong, but at the same time, the other stations maintained (or even expanded) staffing to improve their own on-air product. Several years of cost-cutting caught up with Granite. Unless Granite's creditor sells WTVH to a company with very deep pockets, I doubt they'll ever recover.
Actually, their problems go back to before the ownership change. Meredith put them on the air in 1948, and always paid well.
You get what you pay for.
But the era of Graham Robertson as ND (approx. 1988 - 1992) was a peculiar one. He fired Bob Kirk, who to that point was being groomed as Ron Curtis's heir apparent. So the station was left with no heavyweight to replace Ron. In that same time, they went nine months -- yes, 9 months -- without a chief meteorologist. The anchors at 6 & 11 would read the weather. Then John Fisher was hired, and he was a classic jokester weatherman, not a meteorologist, and was sooo corny - he would even read his jokes off 3x5 cards.
Plus, that was a time that CBS was tanking in the ratings.
Nowadays, the once mighty WTVH is being run remotely by the ND from WBNG down in Binghamton, Greg Catlin. Usually, it is the other way around -- the bigger city station runs the smaller station. What does this say for the company's commitment to local programming, when they fire their primary anchor, they don't replace their ND, and they had a combo ND/male anchor in place anyway -- highly unusual for that size market????
And yes, their graphics are ugly.
As well, Granite overextended themselves when it purchased the San Jose, CA NBC affiliate for an outrageous price, and was also saddled w/ a ton of debt from other purchases -- such as WKBW and Detroit. Then the bubble burst.
You get what you pay for.
But the era of Graham Robertson as ND (approx. 1988 - 1992) was a peculiar one. He fired Bob Kirk, who to that point was being groomed as Ron Curtis's heir apparent. So the station was left with no heavyweight to replace Ron. In that same time, they went nine months -- yes, 9 months -- without a chief meteorologist. The anchors at 6 & 11 would read the weather. Then John Fisher was hired, and he was a classic jokester weatherman, not a meteorologist, and was sooo corny - he would even read his jokes off 3x5 cards.
Plus, that was a time that CBS was tanking in the ratings.
Nowadays, the once mighty WTVH is being run remotely by the ND from WBNG down in Binghamton, Greg Catlin. Usually, it is the other way around -- the bigger city station runs the smaller station. What does this say for the company's commitment to local programming, when they fire their primary anchor, they don't replace their ND, and they had a combo ND/male anchor in place anyway -- highly unusual for that size market????
And yes, their graphics are ugly.
As well, Granite overextended themselves when it purchased the San Jose, CA NBC affiliate for an outrageous price, and was also saddled w/ a ton of debt from other purchases -- such as WKBW and Detroit. Then the bubble burst.
Waiting for the Rock to Drop
Granite hasn't owned Binghamton long enough to gut it of talent - yet. Just wait until the current contracts end. You'll see a whole new news team in Binghamton - and it won't be an improvement.
WHAT commitment to local programming? Silver Point Capital - the real owners of Granite - are interested in the bottom line. Unfortunately, since they're not broadcasters, they don't seem to understand that you need TALENT to bring in REVENUE. This is true - or becoming true - in every Granite market.
oldschooler1 said:Nowadays, the once mighty WTVH is being run remotely by the ND from WBNG down in Binghamton, Greg Catlin. Usually, it is the other way around -- the bigger city station runs the smaller station.
Granite hasn't owned Binghamton long enough to gut it of talent - yet. Just wait until the current contracts end. You'll see a whole new news team in Binghamton - and it won't be an improvement.
oldschooler1 said:What does this say for the company's commitment to local programming, when they fire their primary anchor, they don't replace their ND, and they had a combo ND/male anchor in place anyway -- highly unusual for that size market????
WHAT commitment to local programming? Silver Point Capital - the real owners of Granite - are interested in the bottom line. Unfortunately, since they're not broadcasters, they don't seem to understand that you need TALENT to bring in REVENUE. This is true - or becoming true - in every Granite market.
oldschooler1 said:Nowadays, the once mighty WTVH is being run remotely by the ND from WBNG down in Binghamton, Greg Catlin. Usually, it is the other way around -- the bigger city station runs the smaller station. What does this say for the company's commitment to local programming
A great point that I completely forgot about. The guy's back and forth, spending half his time in Syracuse, half his time in Binghamton. If they're not going to just move him to Syracuse full-time, that certainly says bad things for WTVH's future. Why would someone NOT want to take the chance to move to a bigger market? And just as interesting, why does Granite allow him to hang onto the Binghamton gig? They're probably saying it's a temporary measure until someone else is in place. I'm thinking in reality, it's a temporary measure until they just shut it down.
This Greg Catlin guy probably has a better future in Binghamton anyway -- at least in that market, the Granite station is still somewhat successful. When it comes to news ratings, the Granite vs. ClearChannel battle in Bingo is a complete 180 from Syracuse.
ExPhotog said:I am wondering why this station went into the garbage can? I remember in the late 80's early 90's that this station was a powerhouse of experience. They had the likes of Scott Atkinson, Bob Kirk, Ron Curtis, Gene Young, Bill Carey, etc.....that station was full of talent and experienced personnel. Why did everything go down the drain and suddenly they went from #1 to last place and a joke? Please enlighten me what happened to their image?
WROC viewers in Rochester can empathize with WTVH's viewers in Syracuse.
tjdean said:WROC viewers in Rochester can empathize with WTVH's viewers in Syracuse.
Along with WKBW viewers in Buffalo, another once-solid property screwed at the hands of Granite.
(Even though WROC is not Granite but Nexstar, yes, it's in a pretty similar situation to WTVH -- crappy ratings, high turnover, etc.)
tjdean said:WROC viewers in Rochester can empathize with WTVH's viewers in Syracuse.
Here are two perfect examples of why journalism students should change their majors. Both stations have been run into the ground by owners who just don't give a damn.
A great point that I completely forgot about. The guy's back and forth, spending half his time in Syracuse, half his time in Binghamton. If they're not going to just move him to Syracuse full-time, that certainly says bad things for WTVH's future. Why would someone NOT want to take the chance to move to a bigger market? And just as interesting, why does Granite allow him to hang onto the Binghamton gig? They're probably saying it's a temporary measure until someone else is in place. I'm thinking in reality, it's a temporary measure until they just shut it down.
This Greg Catlin guy probably has a better future in Binghamton anyway -- at least in that market, the Granite station is still somewhat successful. When it comes to news ratings, the Granite vs. ClearChannel battle in Bingo is a complete 180 from Syracuse.
He has been w/ ch. 12 for ages. He is also their primary male anchor, IIRC. He is a community figure in Bingo, running the newsroom in the #1 station. He's probably not going to give up all that to run the 3rd-rate TVH.
And the ratings gap between WBNG/Granite and WIVT/Clearchannel is as big as the Grand Canyon. I have heard - from a very reliable source -- that CC wanted to kill the local news on IVT (they're down to just weekday early eveinng casts now). Instead, IVT decided to go live from the local mall weekdays, highlighting mall businesses in their newscast (sound familiar?).
oldschooler1 said:And the ratings gap between WBNG/Granite and WIVT/Clearchannel is as big as the Grand Canyon. I have heard - from a very reliable source -- that CC wanted to kill the local news on IVT (they're down to just weekday early eveinng casts now). Instead, IVT decided to go live from the local mall weekdays, highlighting mall businesses in their newscast (sound familiar?).
About ten years ago when WIVT was still WMGC(I think) a tornado made a direct hit on the station's studios and tower. It was a HUGE blow to the station, so bad that WBNG was covering the whole thing from the station's own parking lot and WIVT was off the air for quite some time. Since then WIVT has been the toilet, and killed most of the news last summer on both WIVT and WBGH. I believe the also fallen WYCC still has a ten o'clock newscast.
oldschooler1 said:He has been w/ ch. 12 for ages. He is also their primary male anchor, IIRC. He is a community figure in Bingo, running the newsroom in the #1 station. He's probably not going to give up all that to run the 3rd-rate TVH.
Guess again!
http://www.wbng.com/news/local/13780157.html
Some excerpts:
WTVH-TV and WBNG-TV today announced the promotion of Greg Catlin to Vice President of News. Catlin, News Director at WBNG-TV (CBS channel 12) Action News in Binghamton, will assume additional responsibility at WTVH-TV (CBS 5) in Syracuse. As Vice President, Catlin will oversee news operations at both TV stations owned by Granite Broadcasting Corporation. {...} Catlin will no longer anchor or report on a regular basis at WBNG-TV because of his new management duties in the 2 cities.
I kinda feel bad for the guy. As you noted oldschooler, why give up a sure thing to be tossed into some 3rd rate operation? It sounds to me like Catlin may have been given a mandate to do it, or else. Even though the "upgrade" to VP of news (and losing the on-camera responsibilities) might give him more time to concentrate on the managerial aspects -- he's still stuck dividing his time between two stations that are more than an hour away from each other. How much of this guy's average work week is spent just crusing up and down I-81, instead of doing actual work?
I'm sure anyone with a brain at WTVH has already been sending out resume tapes en masse for months now... and it sounds as if it may soon be time for WBNG'ers to do the same. Even though they have good numbers, Granite's definitely pinching pennies. It's only a matter of time until management comes to the assumption they can still turn decent numbers even if they let a few people go. It's not like IVT's gonna suddenly re-populate it's newsroom and ambush BNG.
Still, odd that BNG cleans house when IVT has the rare advantage of being able to simulcast their news on ABC and NBC. (Even though they don't always do, they could -- and IMO, should.) Tornado or no tornado, that was several years ago. If they were good before the tornado, they should have been able to rebound from it by now.
Aside from poor management, you could probably chalk this up to long-term history. In small markets, the first station to sign on is always outrageously dominant over other stations that signed on years, sometimes decades, later. WBNG was on in 1949... but WBJA (the original calls for WIVT) didn't sign on until 1962. Very similar situations in Utica and Watertown.
dustintv said:oldschooler1 said:And the ratings gap between WBNG/Granite and WIVT/Clearchannel is as big as the Grand Canyon. I have heard - from a very reliable source -- that CC wanted to kill the local news on IVT (they're down to just weekday early eveinng casts now). Instead, IVT decided to go live from the local mall weekdays, highlighting mall businesses in their newscast (sound familiar?).
About ten years ago when WIVT was still WMGC(I think) a tornado made a direct hit on the station's studios and tower. It was a HUGE blow to the station, so bad that WBNG was covering the whole thing from the station's own parking lot and WIVT was off the air for quite some time. Since then WIVT has been the toilet, and killed most of the news last summer on both WIVT and WBGH. I believe the also fallen WYCC still has a ten o'clock newscast.
WIVT was in the toilet before the tornado, which struck in about 1998...1999? This station went on the air in 1962, but never had film cameras to cover local news. When ENG came around, they bought field gear, and the same cameras used for the field were then locked down onto pedestals for studio cameras. No prompters. But at least their owner did news, because he thought it was an important public service. Then Ackerley bought them in the 90s, and in the boom time they invested money. But it takes many many years to gain on a powerhouse like WBNG, and lotsa money and patience.
WYCC? Do you mean WICZ? I think they just added a Sunday night newscast, after dropping it in about 1990.
Neither WMGC/WIVT nor WICZ have ever been competitive with WBNG. During the 80s and early 90s, WBNG would get 60 shares for their newscasts. For WIVT and WICZ, "making traction" with their newscasts would be to actually show up in the ratings book. With the decline in population, cable and the Internet, WBNG's ratings have declined. They now only get 30 or 40 shares.
The news on WICZ is an absolute joke. There are some college tv stations that put out a better product. I'm surprised Granite hasn't been able to convince Stainless (the owner of WICZ) to allow channel 12 to produce a 10 pm news on WICZ.
The news on WICZ is an absolute joke. There are some college tv stations that put out a better product. I'm surprised Granite hasn't been able to convince Stainless (the owner of WICZ) to allow channel 12 to produce a 10 pm news on WICZ.
O
Oldies man
Guest
"WIVT was in the toilet before the tornado." The saga of local news in the Bingo market goes back way before the tornado. Try 40 years or so. WNBF/WBNG was and is the only OTA VHF channel in the Bingo market. They were owned in the 50's and 60's by Triangle Publications in Philadelphia. Triangle also owned TV Guide, The Philadelphia Inquirer and several other TV and radio stations. We're talking money behind those curtains and it flowed into their properties including WNBF. Neither WINR or WBJA could compete, but they also did not put up a good battle. Oh sure they tried, but as a poster wrote earlier, how can you compete when the owner will not purchase studio equipment and field ENG equipment has to be brought into the studio for a newscast. I don't believe WBJA ever produced a newscast in the 60's. They started as a shoestring operation in 1962 and remained so until Ackerley bought them in the 90's. But then CC bought them and we all know what comes next. Ch 40 is another mystery. They originally signed on co-joined with the Evening Press newspaper. But again, poor management, little money and their fate was cast. It's all very strange for a Nielson market size of 156 and compare it to similar sized markets that put out a far greater product. With new's programs being one of the last big revenue sources for local TV stations, the Bingo market is and always has been WNBF/WBNG. Granite can screw around with CH 12 without any revenue worries.
Oldies man said:The saga of local news in the Bingo market goes back way before the tornado. Try 40 years or so.
Yep. It was really the FCC's decision to intermix VHF and UHF cities in the early 50s that made it almost impossible for UHFs to compete w/ the big established VHFs. By the time cable TV leveled the playing field, the damage was done. Habits were set -- the "rusted dial" syndrome had long existed.
Actually, from 1988 - 1990, WICZ made inroads against WBNG -- when Jim Matthews came over to ch. 40. By early 1990, they were pulling 20 shares. That was boosted also by NBC's #1 primetime lineup. Then Matthews walked out one day in a huff, and they sank back to shares of 1's and 2's.
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