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What Happened to WXSS's processing?

H

Hot947

Guest
Wow... ever since they flipped the switch on IBOC, KISS sounds like ass! And what's with that mic processing? Sounds like they're talking into a Marti!

While we're at it... how come my radio's scan is stopping on second adjacents to 103.7 (104.1 and 103.3)... what's the point of injecting THAT much IBOC? Are they trying to jam 103.5/Chicago? Is it even legal?
 
> Wow... ever since they flipped the switch on IBOC, KISS
> sounds like ass! And what's with that mic processing?
> Sounds like they're talking into a Marti!
>
> While we're at it... how come my radio's scan is stopping on
> second adjacents to 103.7 (104.1 and 103.3)... what's the
> point of injecting THAT much IBOC? Are they trying to jam
> 103.5/Chicago? Is it even legal?
>

The jamming 103.5 isn't working here.

I can't tell the difference from before or after. Just more hiss and poopyness that comes with IBOC.


As for 103.5, they totally took a dump on that stations processing with IBOC. Its muddy, hollow, they cut the reverb and its just YUCK. So thus I'm spending more time with my computer listening to MP3s.


On the otherside of Entercom (WMYX) the processing sounds much better now. Probably among the best in Milwaukee.<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> Wow... ever since they flipped the switch on IBOC, KISS
> sounds like ass! And what's with that mic processing?
> Sounds like they're talking into a Marti!
>
> While we're at it... how come my radio's scan is stopping on
> second adjacents to 103.7 (104.1 and 103.3)... what's the
> point of injecting THAT much IBOC? Are they trying to jam
> 103.5/Chicago? Is it even legal?
>

No we're not trying to jam WKSC. No I didn't change the processing. Yes it's legal (I have the spectrum analyzer shots to prove it).

There was a problem with the mic, it's fixed however.

Next time you want to slam my processing, feel free to call or write, since I am the one person who can do something about it. I'd love to hear your *constructive* opinions.

My office line is: 414-448-2118
Email: [email protected]

Chris Tarr
Director of Engineering
Entercom Milwaukee<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> > Wow... ever since they flipped the switch on IBOC, KISS
> > sounds like ass! And what's with that mic processing?
> > Sounds like they're talking into a Marti!
> >
> > While we're at it... how come my radio's scan is stopping
> on
> > second adjacents to 103.7 (104.1 and 103.3)... what's the
> > point of injecting THAT much IBOC? Are they trying to jam
>
> > 103.5/Chicago? Is it even legal?
> >
>
> No we're not trying to jam WKSC. No I didn't change the
> processing. Yes it's legal (I have the spectrum analyzer
> shots to prove it).
>
> There was a problem with the mic, it's fixed however.
>
> Next time you want to slam my processing, feel free to call
> or write, since I am the one person who can do something
> about it. I'd love to hear your *constructive* opinions.
>
> My office line is: 414-448-2118
> Email: [email protected]
>
> Chris Tarr
> Director of Engineering
> Entercom Milwaukee
>
I don't know what hot947 means by jamming 103.5. But I know that 103.5 & 103.7 are spaced far enough that they really don't interfere with each other, except south of IL 121 (I'm not sure about that exact road, but I know there's a Marathon on one corner, plus a strip club & adult bookstore next door to them, and a couple of other businesses) in Illinois, but that's fringe coverage, which doesn't matter, and Racine & Kenosha Counties are fringe coverage for Chicago stations, including 103.5. I know IBOC can be bad for DXing analog stations, especially in primary coverage areas on 1st & 2nd adjacents on some radios. Luckily my car radio doesn't deal as much with buzzsaw sounds of IBOC, unless I'm near a tower that broadcasts in IBOC. If hot947 is in Kenosha or Racine County, then Chicago stations will be more difficult to get, and unfortunately, there's not much that can be done about that since Chicago stations don't serve Racine County, and technically Kenosha County, but I don't know why Arbitron rates Kenosha County in with Chicago when it's fringe coverage, except for WWDV.
 
> > Wow... ever since they flipped the switch on IBOC, KISS
> > sounds like ass! And what's with that mic processing?
> > Sounds like they're talking into a Marti!
> >
> > While we're at it... how come my radio's scan is stopping
> on
> > second adjacents to 103.7 (104.1 and 103.3)... what's the
> > point of injecting THAT much IBOC? Are they trying to jam
>
> > 103.5/Chicago? Is it even legal?
> >
>
> The jamming 103.5 isn't working here.
>
> I can't tell the difference from before or after. Just more
> hiss and poopyness that comes with IBOC.
>
>
> As for 103.5, they totally took a dump on that stations
> processing with IBOC. Its muddy, hollow, they cut the reverb
> and its just YUCK. So thus I'm spending more time with my
> computer listening to MP3s.
>
>
> On the otherside of Entercom (WMYX) the processing sounds
> much better now. Probably among the best in Milwaukee.
>


Uhhh no Jeremy. Sorry to disagree with you, but IBOC will not add hiss to an FM signal, nor will it degrade the range of the analog signal.

There is so much mis-information about what the IBOC signal will do to the analog signal. The bottom line is that it does not effect it in the least. It does not effect the processing, the sound, the range or whatever of the analog signal. In almost every instance, there are seperate transmitters for analog and IBOC. They then get mixed together in soemthing called a combiner.

In regards to the original poster, Chris is one of the best people at audio processing. And this is coming from his competitor at Clear Channel. Not only that, he is a great guy and sticks steadfast to the rules.

One thing that people dont realize.... The IBOC signal power is minute compared to the analog signal.

Kent Winrich
Chief Engineer
Clear Channel Milwaukee
 
As long as I'm being "constructive"... how come the audio on your spots has so many artifacts on KISS? Sounds very "mpeggy". Are you using a different bitrate on the stopsets? Or are the clients delivering them that way?

Also, to Kent: excellent job with FM 106's audio... always been one of the best processed country stations in the nation (seems a little quieter than the last time I heard it though). V100's sounding pretty good these days, too.

> > > Wow... ever since they flipped the switch on IBOC, KISS
> > > sounds like ass! And what's with that mic processing?
> > > Sounds like they're talking into a Marti!
> > >
> > > While we're at it... how come my radio's scan is
> stopping
> > on
> > > second adjacents to 103.7 (104.1 and 103.3)... what's
> the
> > > point of injecting THAT much IBOC? Are they trying to
> jam
> >
> > > 103.5/Chicago? Is it even legal?
> > >
> >
> > The jamming 103.5 isn't working here.
> >
> > I can't tell the difference from before or after. Just
> more
> > hiss and poopyness that comes with IBOC.
> >
> >
> > As for 103.5, they totally took a dump on that stations
> > processing with IBOC. Its muddy, hollow, they cut the
> reverb
> > and its just YUCK. So thus I'm spending more time with my
> > computer listening to MP3s.
> >
> >
> > On the otherside of Entercom (WMYX) the processing sounds
> > much better now. Probably among the best in Milwaukee.
> >
>
>
> Uhhh no Jeremy. Sorry to disagree with you, but IBOC will
> not add hiss to an FM signal, nor will it degrade the range
> of the analog signal.
>
> There is so much mis-information about what the IBOC signal
> will do to the analog signal. The bottom line is that it
> does not effect it in the least. It does not effect the
> processing, the sound, the range or whatever of the analog
> signal. In almost every instance, there are seperate
> transmitters for analog and IBOC. They then get mixed
> together in soemthing called a combiner.
>
> In regards to the original poster, Chris is one of the best
> people at audio processing. And this is coming from his
> competitor at Clear Channel. Not only that, he is a great
> guy and sticks steadfast to the rules.
>
> One thing that people dont realize.... The IBOC signal
> power is minute compared to the analog signal.
>
> Kent Winrich
> Chief Engineer
> Clear Channel Milwaukee
>
 
> As long as I'm being "constructive"... how come the audio on
> your spots has so many artifacts on KISS? Sounds very
> "mpeggy". Are you using a different bitrate on the
> stopsets? Or are the clients delivering them that way?
>
> Also, to Kent: excellent job with FM 106's audio... always
> been one of the best processed country stations in the
> nation (seems a little quieter than the last time I heard it
> though). V100's sounding pretty good these days, too.
>

We get them that way from the clients. Our music library is all uncompressed .wav files, and the spots are 384K mpegs. The only ones I've heard that sound "mpeggy" are usually agency spots, which are often emailed to us as lower bitrate mp3's. Kiss uses so much processing that you can sometimes hear the swishing.

The same spots play on Mix, and it doesn't seem as noticeable.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> > As long as I'm being "constructive"... how come the audio
> on
> > your spots has so many artifacts on KISS? Sounds very
> > "mpeggy". Are you using a different bitrate on the
> > stopsets? Or are the clients delivering them that way?
> >
> > Also, to Kent: excellent job with FM 106's audio...
> always
> > been one of the best processed country stations in the
> > nation (seems a little quieter than the last time I heard
> it
> > though). V100's sounding pretty good these days, too.
> >
>
> We get them that way from the clients. Our music library is
> all uncompressed .wav files, and the spots are 384K mpegs.
> The only ones I've heard that sound "mpeggy" are usually
> agency spots, which are often emailed to us as lower bitrate
> mp3's. Kiss uses so much processing that you can sometimes
> hear the swishing.
>
> The same spots play on Mix, and it doesn't seem as
> noticeable.
>
I never notice any MP3 noise on 103.7 except for Lil' Jon - Lovers & Friends. WMYX and pretty much all of the Milwaukee stations are clean.

WMAD in Madison (back in the Mad Radio days. Not sure about now.) and WLIT in Chicago sound like they have their liners loaded in low bitrate MP3 format. Also on airchecks of WXXM and WKSC I was listening to there was the same sound in a few of the commercials. I would guess the files are delivered this way.

I also tend to noice that stations that use Audiovault tend to have swish noises. Examples are WZZN (During the Zone days and during local non satellite oldies programming) and WXLC.

I know WLRK in Wausau uses 128kbps MP3s for all their music, but they keep their processing to a minimum like the rest in that market so that could explain why it sounds clean.

Here's some examples

http://s58.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3JOYXFTO8CVH91N8K3X24TL17I

http://s65.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0XWHM476HEPFB2H85SGKSJ92JG

<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> > > As long as I'm being "constructive"... how come the
> audio
> > on
> > > your spots has so many artifacts on KISS? Sounds very
> > > "mpeggy". Are you using a different bitrate on the
> > > stopsets? Or are the clients delivering them that way?
> > >
> > > Also, to Kent: excellent job with FM 106's audio...
> > always
> > > been one of the best processed country stations in the
> > > nation (seems a little quieter than the last time I
> heard
> > it
> > > though). V100's sounding pretty good these days, too.
> > >
> >
> > We get them that way from the clients. Our music library
> is
> > all uncompressed .wav files, and the spots are 384K mpegs.
>
> > The only ones I've heard that sound "mpeggy" are usually
> > agency spots, which are often emailed to us as lower
> bitrate
> > mp3's. Kiss uses so much processing that you can
> sometimes
> > hear the swishing.
> >
> > The same spots play on Mix, and it doesn't seem as
> > noticeable.
> >
> I never notice any MP3 noise on 103.7 except for Lil' Jon -
> Lovers & Friends. WMYX and pretty much all of the Milwaukee
> stations are clean.
>
> WMAD in Madison (back in the Mad Radio days. Not sure about
> now.) and WLIT in Chicago sound like they have their liners
> loaded in low bitrate MP3 format. Also on airchecks of WXXM
> and WKSC I was listening to there was the same sound in a
> few of the commercials. I would guess the files are
> delivered this way.
>
> I also tend to noice that stations that use Audiovault tend
> to have swish noises. Examples are WZZN (During the Zone
> days and during local non satellite oldies programming) and
> WXLC.
>
> I know WLRK in Wausau uses 128kbps MP3s for all their music,
> but they keep their processing to a minimum like the rest in
> that market so that could explain why it sounds clean.
>
> Here's some examples
>
h> ttp://s58.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3JOYXFTO8CVH91N8K3X24TL17I
>
>
h> ttp://s65.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0XWHM476HEPFB2H85SGKSJ92JG
>

WLRK is indeed using lower bitrate MP3s.. I know for a fact, as I work there :). But yes, they are using a digital optimod which is 1 1/2 years old (came with the new format). I don't know if it is all 128 kbps Mp3s, but I know they use a lot of MP3s in a lower bitrate.
<P ID="signature">______________


Moderator, Community Radio board</P>
 
> No we're not trying to jam WKSC. No I didn't change the
> processing. Yes it's legal (I have the spectrum analyzer
> shots to prove it).
>
> There was a problem with the mic, it's fixed however.
>
> Next time you want to slam my processing, feel free to call
> or write, since I am the one person who can do something
> about it. I'd love to hear your *constructive* opinions.
>
> My office line is: 414-448-2118
> Email: [email protected]
>
> Chris Tarr
> Director of Engineering
> Entercom Milwaukee
>

Chris... I got Kiss and WMYX the other day (thanks to the temprature inversion and fog) and both sounded great!

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> > > As long as I'm being "constructive"... how come the
> audio
> > on
> > > your spots has so many artifacts on KISS? Sounds very
> > > "mpeggy". Are you using a different bitrate on the
> > > stopsets? Or are the clients delivering them that way?
> > >
> > > Also, to Kent: excellent job with FM 106's audio...
> > always
> > > been one of the best processed country stations in the
> > > nation (seems a little quieter than the last time I
> heard
> > it
> > > though). V100's sounding pretty good these days, too.
> > >
> >
> > We get them that way from the clients. Our music library
> is
> > all uncompressed .wav files, and the spots are 384K mpegs.
>
> > The only ones I've heard that sound "mpeggy" are usually
> > agency spots, which are often emailed to us as lower
> bitrate
> > mp3's. Kiss uses so much processing that you can
> sometimes
> > hear the swishing.
> >
> > The same spots play on Mix, and it doesn't seem as
> > noticeable.
> >
> I never notice any MP3 noise on 103.7 except for Lil' Jon -
> Lovers & Friends. WMYX and pretty much all of the Milwaukee
> stations are clean.
>
> WMAD in Madison (back in the Mad Radio days. Not sure about
> now.) and WLIT in Chicago sound like they have their liners
> loaded in low bitrate MP3 format. Also on airchecks of WXXM
> and WKSC I was listening to there was the same sound in a
> few of the commercials. I would guess the files are
> delivered this way.
>
> I also tend to noice that stations that use Audiovault tend
> to have swish noises. Examples are WZZN (During the Zone
> days and during local non satellite oldies programming) and
> WXLC.
>
> I know WLRK in Wausau uses 128kbps MP3s for all their music,
> but they keep their processing to a minimum like the rest in
> that market so that could explain why it sounds clean.
>
> Here's some examples
>
h> ttp://s58.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3JOYXFTO8CVH91N8K3X24TL17I
>
>
h> ttp://s65.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0XWHM476HEPFB2H85SGKSJ92JG
>

So that is why WLRK is so much quieter than all of the other stations. I always wondered about that.
 
> So that is why WLRK is so much quieter than all of the other
> stations. I always wondered about that.
>
Thats one of the reasons. The other would be they have no reason to be louder because nobody else in the market is loud like the big city stations such as Milwaukee. That's one thing I have noticed about the Wausau/Central Wisconsin market. Plus they use old equipment.<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> > So that is why WLRK is so much quieter than all of the
> other
> > stations. I always wondered about that.
> >
> Thats one of the reasons. The other would be they have no
> reason to be louder because nobody else in the market is
> loud like the big city stations such as Milwaukee. That's
> one thing I have noticed about the Wausau/Central Wisconsin
> market. Plus they use old equipment.
>


Hey dont knock old equipment. Some of the Chicago FMs use old analog processors on air. The PDs dont want to use a digital anything if they can help it.
 
> > > So that is why WLRK is so much quieter than all of the
> > other
> > > stations. I always wondered about that.
> > >
> > Thats one of the reasons. The other would be they have no
> > reason to be louder because nobody else in the market is
> > loud like the big city stations such as Milwaukee. That's
> > one thing I have noticed about the Wausau/Central
> Wisconsin
> > market. Plus they use old equipment.
> >
>
>
> Hey dont knock old equipment. Some of the Chicago FMs use
> old analog processors on air. The PDs dont want to use a
> digital anything if they can help it.
>

The only stations in the market that SOUNDS like they are using older equipment is Muzzy Broadcasting (WSPT-FM). I know for a fact that they use an old 10+ year old Optimod.

WLRK nor the sister AM, WXCO, use old processing. WLRK uses a 1 1/2 year old Digital Optimod and (2) 2 year old Digital Audio Prizms made by Gentner. The automation is new with the new format, Scott Studios, and is 1 1/2 years old. Before the new format, they used old equipment.

WXCO uses a digital Optimod as well (9200).

The only thing that is really truely old are the boards (old 1980s Sound Systems RS12 boards). Yes I do work there :).

All the other stations sound like they are using good processing as well.<P ID="signature">______________


Moderator, Community Radio board</P>
 
I'm looking at all the HD emissions in the field a spectrum analyzer. It appears WXSS's emissions are perfectly legal. The HD energy dissipates from aural detection around Racine and WKSC comes in fine as far north as the Kenosha/Racine county line. Well beyond the 54dBu protection contour of the station.

I have examined WXSS's emissions and they are quite within the emissions mask in the first and second adjacent channel area.

Before you go jumping to conclusions on someone jamming another station, I suggest you look very carefully at the FCC rules on protected contours, the emission mask, and the Ibiquity standard.

GR

> Wow... ever since they flipped the switch on IBOC, KISS
> sounds like ass! And what's with that mic processing?
> Sounds like they're talking into a Marti!
>
> While we're at it... how come my radio's scan is stopping on
> second adjacents to 103.7 (104.1 and 103.3)... what's the
> point of injecting THAT much IBOC? Are they trying to jam
> 103.5/Chicago? Is it even legal?
>
 
> > > So that is why WLRK is so much quieter than all of the
> > other
> > > stations. I always wondered about that.
> > >
> > Thats one of the reasons. The other would be they have no
> > reason to be louder because nobody else in the market is
> > loud like the big city stations such as Milwaukee. That's
> > one thing I have noticed about the Wausau/Central
> Wisconsin
> > market. Plus they use old equipment.
> >
>
>
> Hey dont knock old equipment. Some of the Chicago FMs use
> old analog processors on air. The PDs dont want to use a
> digital anything if they can help it.
>
Is it possible that WLUP is one of these stations? They always seem to have that vintage sound whenever I get a chance to listen.
 
> > > > So that is why WLRK is so much quieter than all of the
>
> > > other
> > > > stations. I always wondered about that.
> > > >
> > > Thats one of the reasons. The other would be they have
> no
> > > reason to be louder because nobody else in the market is
>
> > > loud like the big city stations such as Milwaukee.
> That's
> > > one thing I have noticed about the Wausau/Central
> > Wisconsin
> > > market. Plus they use old equipment.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Hey dont knock old equipment. Some of the Chicago FMs use
>
> > old analog processors on air. The PDs dont want to use a
> > digital anything if they can help it.
> >
> Is it possible that WLUP is one of these stations? They
> always seem to have that vintage sound whenever I get a
> chance to listen.
>
I think WLUP still uses carts. Not 100% sure. <P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> I think WLUP still uses carts. Not 100% sure.

ROTFLMAO. Where did you hear that?????<P ID="signature">______________

"Z"
Music Coordinator/Technical Support</P>
 
> > I think WLUP still uses carts. Not 100% sure.
>
> ROTFLMAO. Where did you hear that?????
>

Well.. Under Bonneville, when their studios were in the Hancock, they had a "Wall-of-Carts" in the studio. I'm pretty sure it was either for show or back-up use.

Hell.. When I visited WZZN back in 2001 they still had carts, but IIRC, they weren't used except as back-up.

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
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