What If AM Radio Was Discontinued?

[exdjted]

Another reason is I think translators count against ownership caps.

They don't count against the cap.

There are no multiple ownership limits on the number of translator and booster stations a single entity may own. Nor are they counted as FM stations for the purposes of the primary station multiple ownership rule, 47 CFR Section 73.3555. See 47 CFR Sections 74.1232(b) and (g).

The FCC won't do away with AM, but the marketplace will. It's not attracting new listeners, and the FCC has shown no real desire to prop up the service other than handing out translators like TicTacs. Not to mention many municipalities are making it harder to locate new tower sites through onerous regulations, and many operators finding that it makes more economic sense to sell the land the towers sit on to developers and turn in the licenses.

Also, how many FM translators even mention the AM they rebroadcast? Most are identified as "ESPN 107.7" or "Hot 92.9" or whatever. Except for the legal ID, the average listener would have no clue that the primary signal is actually an AM station.

As far as the HD on a translator, I'm not an engineer, but aren't most HD stations getting less coverage in HD than their analog signal? So, if you put HD on a translator that covers say, 10 miles, and the HD only gets you 8 miles out, that's a sizable loss.

 

[kfbkfb]

Considering that the max FM translator power is 250W, do interference rules preclude transmitting the HD carriers (on an FM translator only) at 250W also?

In another thread a while back, it was posted that a chip supplier has a multi format radio receiver (IIRC, w/HD reception capability), maybe a coupon promotion w/AM station on the HD part of an FM translator (coupon would give a discount on the purchase of an HD radio - IMHO, loyal listeners would be the most likely to request the coupon).


Kirk Bayne

 

[TheBigA]

Considering that the max FM translator power is 250W, do interference rules preclude transmitting the HD carriers (on an FM translator only) at 250W also?

Apparently not since it's being done. They're on different frequencies.

In another thread a while back, it was posted that a chip supplier has a multi format radio receiver (IIRC, w/HD reception capability), maybe a coupon promotion w/AM station on the HD part of an FM translator (coupon would give a discount on the purchase of an HD radio - IMHO, loyal listeners would be the most likely to request the coupon).

Who pays for the coupon? It might make sense if there were local electronics stores that advertised on radio.

Even if you give away radios doesn't mean people will use them. You can lead a horse to water....

Remember that radio stations aren't in the electronics business. They don't make or sell radios anymore.

 

[kfbkfb]

Apparently not since it's being done. They're on different frequencies

In some cases the HD signal can be 10kW, if that is allowed, I would think that 250W would be (I don't know if having the HD carriers at the same amplitude as the associated analog FM signal causes interference).

Who pays for the coupon? It might make sense if there were local electronics stores that advertised on radio.

The radio station, at least there would be no cost to the station unless someone actually bought an HD capable radio w/coupon.

Perhaps work with Sony to make a pocket AM/FM/HD radio (since Sony was a pioneer in making HD radios) and sell them at Walmart (where the Sony AM/FM pocket radio is sold).


Kirk Bayne

 

[gr8oldies]

In some cases the HD signal can be 10kW, if that is allowed, I would think that 250W would be (I don't know if having the HD carriers at the same amplitude as the associated analog FM signal causes interference).

The radio station, at least there would be no cost to the station unless someone actually bought an HD capable radio w/coupon.

Perhaps work with Sony to make a pocket AM/FM/HD radio (since Sony was a pioneer in making HD radios) and sell them at Walmart (where the Sony AM/FM pocket radio is sold).


Kirk Bayne

Nobody is buying radios. No one carries a phone and a Walkman.

 

[TheBigA]

Perhaps work with Sony to make a pocket AM/FM/HD radio

Do you have the name of a contact? The problem with HD portables is the antenna and the size of the chip. Too big for a pocket radio.

In addition, electronics manufacturers (all in China) don't want to pay a US company a royalty for a HD chip. Perhaps if the patent isn't renewed.

 

[semoochie]

They don't count against the cap.

There are no multiple ownership limits on the number of translator and booster stations a single entity may own. Nor are they counted as FM stations for the purposes of the primary station multiple ownership rule, 47 CFR Section 73.3555. See 47 CFR Sections 74.1232(b) and (g).

The FCC won't do away with AM, but the marketplace will. It's not attracting new listeners, and the FCC has shown no real desire to prop up the service other than handing out translators like TicTacs. Not to mention many municipalities are making it harder to locate new tower sites through onerous regulations, and many operators finding that it makes more economic sense to sell the land the towers sit on to developers and turn in the licenses.

Also, how many FM translators even mention the AM they rebroadcast? Most are identified as "ESPN 107.7" or "Hot 92.9" or whatever. Except for the legal ID, the average listener would have no clue that the primary signal is actually an AM station.

As far as the HD on a translator, I'm not an engineer, but aren't most HD stations getting less coverage in HD than their analog signal? So, if you put HD on a translator that covers say, 10 miles, and the HD only gets you 8 miles out, that's a sizable loss.

The intention is to replicate coverage within the 60dbu contour. This may be confusing because analog stations almost always have some listenable "bonus coverage" beyond that, some more than others.

 

[davideduardo]

Are the AM and FM signals of WECK separately encoded? Does Nielsen keep track of that info? Or are we relying on fans of the station to remember whether they were listening to the AM or the FM in casual conversations with Buddy? I'm sure many people don't really remember.

The diary has check columns to indicate AM/FM/Stream for simulcasts, but the accuracy of that is highly questionable. And the fact is that many older listeners don't really pay attention to the difference between AM and FM and may either not check the right one or not check it at all.

I know that folks who listen to other simulcast stations don't always have reliable recall of which frequency they tuned in. In the NYC market, for years, WPAT AM got much better ratings than it should have. Folks likely were listening to WPAT-FM as the two stations simulcast or shadowcast the same easy listening format. But they wrote WPAT AM in their diaries. That's why the ratings pre-People Meters and post-People Meters showed wide swings in what folks were listening to.

When a person wrote "WPAT" the AM got credit. When they wrote "WPAT FM" the FM did.; it was very very rare to see "-AM" or "-FM" written next to call letters, though. Back when NYC had diaries and WPAT was a beautiful music partner-cast, the diary did not distinguish AM and FM. However, many listeners wrote dial positions and not call letters, such as "930" and not the calls so stations with the same calls on both bands could be distinguished that way.

 

[davideduardo]

Do you have the name of a contact? The problem with HD portables is the antenna and the size of the chip. Too big for a pocket radio.

It's not the size of the chip... it is the power consumption and heat dissipation.

In addition, electronics manufacturers (all in China) don't want to pay a US company a royalty for a HD chip.

That is very true... they will only do that if there is considerable consumer demand which drives a higher price. But we all know that this is unlikely.

Perhaps if the patent isn't renewed.

Also unlikely. That is the only source of revenue for that technology.

 

[Marcos_C]

When a person wrote "WPAT" the AM got credit. When they wrote "WPAT FM" the FM did.; it was very very rare to see "-AM" or "-FM" written next to call letters, though. Back when NYC had diaries and WPAT was a beautiful music partner-cast, the diary did not distinguish AM and FM. However, many listeners wrote dial positions and not call letters, such as "930" and not the calls so stations with the same calls on both bands could be distinguished that way.

Since WPAT was on 930 and WPAT-FM was on 93.1, both stations referred to their dial positions as "93."

 

[davideduardo]

Since WPAT was on 930 and WPAT-FM was on 93.1, both stations referred to their dial positions as "93."

And in that case, Arbitron would use ascription. In that process, still used in diary markets, the duplicitous entry is split between the two possibilities in proportion to their percentage of accurately listed entries. So, if the AM got 2/3 of all precisely written entries, the duplicitous ones would go 2/3 to the AM.

 

[Kelly A]

The intention is to replicate coverage within the 60dbu contour. This may be confusing because analog stations almost always have some listenable "bonus coverage" beyond that, some more than others.

Yep, and it relates to FM translators for AM stations there likely is no 'bonus coverage'. Many don't replicate the theoretical coverage of their AM station.

 

[Kelly A]

The radio station, at least there would be no cost to the station unless someone actually bought an HD capable radio w/coupon.

Well at least in that scenario the likelihood the station would have to pick up the tab is minimal. Because no consumer would go out of their way to get a coupon and buy a portable radio. That ended twenty years ago.

Perhaps work with Sony to make a pocket AM/FM/HD radio (since Sony was a pioneer in making HD radios) and sell them at Walmart (where the Sony AM/FM pocket radio is sold).

Sony doesn't care about selling radios anymore, because nobody is buying them.

 

[exbloguero]

Although in Mexico many AM stations migrated to FM, the regulator is still issuing licenses to operate AM radios. both commercially and non-commercially. for example this radio that started operations a few weeks ago at 850 AM

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=506055860896505

 

[davideduardo]

Although in Mexico many AM stations migrated to FM, the regulator is still issuing licenses to operate AM radios. both commercially and non-commercially. for example this radio that started operations a few weeks ago at 850 AM

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=506055860896505

Almost all the new AMs are non-commercial. Many are in rural area and serve indigenous populations. Hardly any new commercial AM licenses have been given, and there are many states in Mexico with no commercial AMs at all.

Currently, there are 6 or 7 AMs in Mexico City that have ceased operation and don't look like they will likely resume. A couple have even sold their transmitter sites to recover some of the investments.

 

[DelmarvaDX]

An interesting discussion. One thought is that, as more and more signals fade away, those that remain will find themselves practically owning their frequency...perhaps to the point (someday) of most living as a clear channel. But, to what end? I'm still a big AM fan, but weeks sometime go by without me tuning in. I tend to gravitate to CFZM, WABC & WSM. Few if any of their advertisers are targeting a guy hundreds of miles away. Maybe, decades from now, there will be one station on 1440 or something, and nothing else on the band but lightning and man-made hash...and maybe they can target such an audience to appeal to some advertisers. I picture some sort of fringe "prepper" movement kind of thing.

Back to today. Were I independently wealthy, I would be quite tempted to offer a little cash for one of the local AM'ers. Run it as a hobby. When I felt like playing DJ, I'd play DJ. Otherwise, I could automate old time radio, or big band, or 60s country...something odd. But I suspect it would quickly get old.

 

[b-turner]

DelmarvaDX, as a guy that managed a radio station as the sole employee, all I have to say is thank God it was a daytimer. You're at work 7 days a week all day and even on trips to visit family or take a vacation. It becomes semi-like a prison sentence. As much as I love radio, 7 days a week/365 gets old pretty fast.

I'm reminded of Buck Burdette that had KBUX in Quartzsite, AZ operating from his home. Both he and his wife ran the station but they had two friends that got paid a little. Each gave up a few hours weekly so Buck and Maude could go do something as a couple for 3 or 4 hours.

 

[Oldie919]

Back in the late 70s/early 80s I worked for a "Mom and Pop" operation in the Lakes Region of NH....
My duties included an air shift and engineering work....This was (at that time) a daytimer (PSA and PSSA would come later.....).
They had a small staff -- a secretary, 2 other announcer/board ops, and 2 "floating" news people to cover local events.
The owners were able to get away quite frequently, tripping to Alaska, Disneyland, etc.
They paid my way to the NAB convention in Las Vegas in 1980!!
My point.....small operations don't NEED to tie the owner(s) "down on the farm".....if done right, they can break away from the routine on a fairly regular basis for some R & R......

 

[davideduardo]

DelmarvaDX, as a guy that managed a radio station as the sole employee, all I have to say is thank God it was a daytimer. You're at work 7 days a week all day and even on trips to visit family or take a vacation. It becomes semi-like a prison sentence. As much as I love radio, 7 days a week/365 gets old pretty fast.

When I owned stations, I was at one point the chief engineer of 9 stations in my main market. In the days before mobile phones and pagers, wherever I went I had a transistor radio and would check all the stations every 15 minutes, even if in a movie, at a club or a restaurant. There were plenty of cases where I left a meal unfinished or a movie without knowing the ending as I drove to the studios or one of 5 transmitter sites.

 

[semoochie]

DelmarvaDX, as a guy that managed a radio station as the sole employee, all I have to say is thank God it was a daytimer. You're at work 7 days a week all day and even on trips to visit family or take a vacation. It becomes semi-like a prison sentence. As much as I love radio, 7 days a week/365 gets old pretty fast.

I'm reminded of Buck Burdette that had KBUX in Quartzsite, AZ operating from his home. Both he and his wife ran the station but they had two friends that got paid a little. Each gave up a few hours weekly so Buck and Maude could go do something as a couple for 3 or 4 hours.

Then there's tale of the "radio hermit", who had been operating KCIV(FM)The Dalles, Oregon, from a mountaintop all by himself since 1968! The station was Classical, all the ads were read live and there were no cart machines. At the time I visited, he was living there with his then 99 year old mother and had a salesman who lived in town. He was off on Sundays and drove into town but otherwise, was on the air daily from 7AM to about 10:15PM, when he signed off, announcing all the places that had received the station. He sold the station in 1984 and it became Adult Contemporary as KMCQ.