What is up with BPM?

[Mid West Clubber]

I like Vic and Drel... Dre wanted to hire me but upper managenent wouldnt let him.... Better off anyway,,, Vic is better than i could do, and i want the best for dance on the Island..... Too bad 92.7 isnt ALt Rock by day, and dance at night anymore.

 

[thefoxxman]

I have been a loyal BPM follower as well for many years.... and there is no doubt has now completed the transformation into now what used to be the Beat.

A good majority of the tracks they play have the speed shifted faster and there are all sorts of pops, clanks, and other sound effects inserted into the songs.

And as discussed, the songs are all pop remixes, tracks that don't even fit into the genre.

This has become a TERRIBLE station from what used to obviously be a powerhouse. What a shame.

I realize all this has been stated before, but it just blows me away.

 

[PhDance]

I did speak to the powers that be over there.

They assured me that the 80's was going to be gone for the most part, except for certain tracks like New Order. I know SiriusXM doesn't have the money but down the road there should be a dance channel dedicated to the 80s and early 90's. Call it "The Palladium" after the legendary NYC nightclub of that time.

Hey Tony, while I have noticed a few cringeworthy songs removed from BPM's playlist, it is still a shadow of itself from how it sounded right after the Sirius/XM merged programming, and more importantly, it no longer stacks up against the offerings that I can pull in on my blackberry by connecting the device to my car stereo.

Just as I feared before (11/12/08, http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,113080.20.html, I think that a lot of the blame in the programming changes are due to the coalition to bring back some sort of dance classics channel. I felt that with a lot of people (ex sirius subscribers) complaining about the "new" BPM and lack of a classic dance station, then SiriusXM would make the simple decision to just make BPM into "The Beat". My fears were encouraged by their decision to not only bring back a classic dance channel, but also to bring back "The Beat Morning Show". In the back house, believe me that the former The Beat brass (e.g., Geronimo) was saying "See! Told you!" to SiriusXM executives that chose to instead model their consolidated mainstream dance channel after the higher rated BPM.

I think that ANY attempt to arrange another dance classics channel is further counter productive to the dance community, who want a current-based mainstream dance station. Instead, as others have mentioned, we need to email BPM and the brass at SiriusXM. Maybe a few of us calling them to complain with the warning that we have so many alternatives available that do play modern dance via smart phones (iphone, blackberry, etc) and wireless devices, that it does not make sense to continue to subscribe to a service primarily for a lesser quality currents based station.

 

[TonySantiago]

I did speak to the powers that be over there.

They assured me that the 80's was going to be gone for the most part, except for certain tracks like New Order. I know SiriusXM doesn't have the money but down the road there should be a dance channel dedicated to the 80s and early 90's. Call it "The Palladium" after the legendary NYC nightclub of that time.

Just as I feared before (11/12/08, http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,113080.20.html, I think that a lot of the blame in the programming changes are due to the coalition to bring back some sort of dance classics channel. I felt that with a lot of people (ex sirius subscribers) complaining about the "new" BPM and lack of a classic dance station, then SiriusXM would make the simple decision to just make BPM into "The Beat". My fears were encouraged by their decision to not only bring back a classic dance channel, but also to bring back "The Beat Morning Show". In the back house, believe me that the former The Beat brass (e.g., Geronimo) was saying "See! Told you!" to SiriusXM executives that chose to instead model their consolidated mainstream dance channel after the higher rated BPM.

WHHOOOAAAAA! Don't blame us for that! The FACT that you have two different dance philosophies merging into one channel was the reason why things appeared to have "dropped off" (meaning "The Beat & BPM"). Don't "spin this" as our fault! This was clearly an Sirius/XM decision, not mine!

The campaign we did for "The Strobe" was TOTALLY DIFFERENT from this and had absolutely NOTHING to do with "BPM". Once the merger happened, a couple of dance stations fell off. I sensed that "BPM" was going to be "watered down" to satisfy those listeners of "The Beat" who might have found "BPM" programming a bit "edgy". But the fact that BOTH disco/classic offerings went to the wayside, that was not right because you STILL had fans that liked that classic music. THAT was why we pushed a classic dance station to come back. Once again, that had NOTHING to do with "BPM" or "The Beat".

And rereading that thread, you thought that we were going to do a NEGATIVE campaign on this...and we didn't. I would never ever want to push that. And not for nothing, you DO have to have some sort of "heritage" out there. I don't want it on "BPM" mind you but at least such an offering IS there for those that want it.

No complaints on future technologies...heck I have a couple of stations on my cellphone I tune into as well. But really...reread that thread you linked up. Read it carefully. Because before you "twist" something else on me, I staunchly defend that there had to be a station like "The Strobe" to appear for those fans that want it. Whatever happened with "BPM" and "The Beat" was clearly the merger of Sirius/XM and had nothing to do with me!

 

[TonySantiago]

FOLLOW UP:

When I wrote the initial response to PhDance, I saw that the coalition was being blamed for something that is not in my control, and I clearly got angry about it.

But the more I've re-read the letter and response, I guess in a bizarre way I became rather "flattered". Yeah, the coalition is a tight organization. But we aren't powerful to the point where we can dictate certain sounds here and there and "force" BPM to be "weak" ....nor would I want to dictate that sort of thing. Those huge responsibilities are clearly up to the program and music directors of the stations out there. Granted, we can certainly give our feedback but I don't want to "take over" on anything. That would be some nerve, right?

So really, whatever happened with the sound of "BPM" can only be blamed on the merger and not the coalition. The Sirius side (read Mel Karmazin) treated this merger as if they owned the satellite service fully! So as such, the Sirius mentality took over most of those stations. "The Beat" was Dance Music 101 while "BPM" served up to the core fans. Nothing wrong with both but there would be NO WAY to get people from "The Beat" to step up to a "BPM" level without having some of their "brand" sprinkled in there. As for "BPM", they didn't want to lose those core fans but knew that in order to get "The Beat" people on track, some of what was out there had to get "watered" down.

Look...Mike Abrams and Skyy are doing the very best that they can under the conditions. And I do appreciate what they do. Merges clearly suck and in the beginning, dance music fans really took the brunt of it. I am glad for fans of classic dance that "The Strobe" is here. As for those 80's sounds that BPM played, most of what was on that playlist a few weeks ago should remain on the "80's on 8" channel.

More people are listening to music via their cell phones, and in that sense, the future is NOW. But really, support ALL sources because dance really needs to remain and grow into the public's consciousness. For us, it's "preaching to the choir"....we have to get to them.

My apologies for the initial anger.

 

[Mid West Clubber]

I wouldnt mind some 90s dance,, even some early 90s dance,, and even though I like 80s music,,, freestyle-New wave-POP Whatever, it doesnt belong on a CHR Dance radio station,, not even an FM one.. Heck,, even a small market with limited Dance Music exposure like indianapolis has WBDG which is a high school station, which is a mix of The most underground, POP Remixes,, mainstream dance, 90s dance, Drum N Bass, Jumpstyle,, I know its a non com, but John Ester wouldnt be playing it if he didnt think it had an audience for it here, and its normally 8 to 12 hours of dance 7 days a week,, it varies from day to day. Tony I suggest, even though you dont live here to Email WBDG to see if they can increase their Dance AKA like Z-88.9, or 24/7 Dance like WMPH or KHNC Seattle...

You have more power and support to convince him than I do... Also email 99.9, 92.7, and 92.5 Chicago to see about letting Too Kool Chris bring Dance Factory to the station 24/7... I dont think their progressive talk will last more than a year.. most Talk radio fans tune to AM anyway.. if we can get dance back in Chicago, Indianapolis, and Detroit, and Cleveland... The citys where House-Techno where borned.. AKA The Warehouse in Chicago, and the former club,,,The Shack in indianapolis, it could lead to markets like LA and Miami to at least add some dance to the School stations.. even 8 to 12 hrs is better than nothing.. Unfourtunately I cant get WBDG AKA Giant 90.9 here anymore due to a religious Jammer, and a Pirate on 90.7.

 

[Wildstyle K]

EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT BPM. I'm on Facebook, and http://www.facebook.com/pages/BPM/60295042574?ref=nf

I'm just glad I love BBC and got used to that from the get-go.

 

[PhDance]

FOLLOW UP:

When I wrote the initial response to PhDance, I saw that the coalition was being blamed for something that is not in my control, and I clearly got angry about it.

Good thing I read that second post first! While I certainly acknowledge that at the time I was writing my earlier post, I was in part thinking of some of your earlier posts on your myspace blog about encouraging your members to demand a classic dance station, I definitely meant "coalition" in a more general sense; thus, I don't believe your site is not the culprit for the way BPM presently sounds. Also, your campaign is not necessarily positioned as solely a MODERN Dance radio coalition, so it is not fair if I were to expect you to only advocate for modern dance on terrestrial radio. Certaintly, Tony, the dance community is indepted to you for providing very strong leadership within the New York market. You've mobilized dance radio enthusiasts on issues through many of your efforts (e.g., columns in local papers featuring quotes by you). I think it is fair to say that part of Pulse's coming of being was due to the hole that the consultants realized in the market- I'm sure your efforts helped them to realize the hole, either indirectly or directly. As a wise man once said, with success comes responsibility....

Having said all that, I do want to reiterate my earlier comments regarding timing of any push for SiriusXM subscribers to ask for another classic dance station. I think, timing wise, the call to arms (at the moment) should be the inappropriate product on BPM (too many remixes, new wave rock, etc.). When I used the theretical analogy earlier, I was not meaning to imply that you had any sort of malice intent by encouraging the creation of another dance classics station (you certainly never meant to say to Sirius that you wanted classic dance music on BPM- you wanted it on another channel), rather, I was referring to the message that it would send to programmers who do not understand the (dance) format the way you or I, or so many others on this forum do. The message that they might have received was the source of distortion- only because of bad timing which meant your efforts to resurrect Strobe occurred at the same time some listeners were voicing their displeasure in losing The Beat- if they have a number of complaints about not having a classic dance channel, and they have other complaints from Sirius subscribers who are not ready for a progressive Dance hits channel, they might be inclined to assume that all dance listeners want to hear more classic dance music- and not necessarily limited to one channel (strobe). I am very aware that this was not your intention, nor am I crediting you with brewing the storm. All I am personally asking you is for you to consider the timing of any effort to promote the launch of an 80s/90s dance channel if you decide to proceed down those lines.

I am grateful for being able to clear that up.

 

[TonySantiago]

Thank you PhDance

I had to take another "read" on this because I did feel that it was only fair to try to get my thoughts out there without the emotion coming out first (as it was on the first post) as well as viewing what you've said and clearing up things. I certainly don't ever want to "venom" on dance music supporters; that becomes self-defeating for what we stand for. What we've done all these years is about the love for the music and to that, I do want to see things expand throughout the country. That's the reason why I did change the name of the coalition to what it is now (it was the Metro New York Dance Radio Coalition), because there ARE more things happening beyond radio (Internet, future technologies, other avenues) that we have to take advantage of and get in on the ground floor with.

Granted I am a current leaning guy, but there should be some sort of heritage happening and that was my intent when I did the campaign for a disco/classic dance station to come back on satellite radio. As much as I have talked about Pulse in the past, I also feel that with 'KTU there IS a place for that. They may not play The Bee Gees, Donna Summer and Gloria Gaynor "ad nauseum" as they did before but there is still an audience that wants to hear some of the heritage as well as view today's music without having to go on that "edge".

When I threw out "The Palladium", it was mainly as a suggestion that if, down the road, things could pick up financially then perhaps bring about a station that has that Hot 103/97 feel along with some of the early 'KTU (circa 1996-1998) dance tracks. Though the more I've thought about it, it would be a mistake. Not that I don't believe a station like this could work, but at the same time it would also pigeonhole "The Strobe" to the point that the playlist would be extremely "redundant" since all that station would be is "disco only". Plus, in this country, dance isn't a strong product compared to rock and hip-hop/R&B. Doing "The Palladium" would further "isolate" what little we have.

Perhaps mid 90's material could see a "home" to "The Strobe" and that's fine...I'd like to see an expansion there. But NOT on BPM. BPM should really be about today's dance music, with recurrents as far back as, let's say, 5 years. And yes, allow for the pop remixes since there is an audience from "The Beat" that would want that. That's what the merger did.

And as KDM7000 pointed out, with that link, the conversation is getting heated there and yeah, I got thrown into it! LOL

Thanks again PhDance!

All of you in here are allright and I'll continue to do what I do for all of us!

 

[Saladressing]

Here's an upside to the changes at BPM: I am finding some awesome music on stations such as The Spectrum, Boneyard and others. I used to have it on BPM most of the time, but now that they're basically a Jack-FM type station (I wouldn't even classify them as a Dance format anymore), it gives time to check out other stuff. And if my iPhone had a remote control like Sirius does, Sirius would've been out the door a while back.

 

[IT_Guru]

I still say give it some time. Mike Abrams and Skyy are good guys and they want to make it the best dance station that they can.

BPM hasn't been worth listening to since Alan Freed left. I used to love listening to them in the office all day long but now it's so bad I've removed them from my presets. If they don't start sounding like the old BPM I'm going to cancel XM. The dance channels were the main reason I subscribed in 2004 but now I can't stand to listen to any of them for more than 5 minutes. I've noticed that even Strobe has gotten pretty bad since it's returned.

 

[TonySantiago]

It's the Sirius "brand" philosophy that took over. It's an all around issue, not just the dance channels unfortunately What really strikes me as "odd" is why the Sirius mentality comes off like traditional "radio" when clearly it is not!

Let's compare it to television. You have your regular "free" channels and "basic" channels on cable television. Yes, for cable you do pay for service but with it you get over 200 channels or so....each cable network gets something like 20c + per subscriber, so as to be profitable, they air commercials. Because they HAVE to cater to the advertisers, the free channels and cable networks have to rely on the Nielsens (just as terrestrial radio depends on the Arbs/PPM) so as to know what type of programming has to air so as to maximize things for their "bottom line".

Satellite radio is like HBO, which in terms of cable is known as a "premium" channel. People buy into the services to see shows and movies without the commercials (just like satellite radio). As such, these stations charge a higher price per subscriber since they can't depend on advertising as a revenue base. So as such, to keep the audience base from eroding, HBO and Showtime would bring on compelling programming that would NEVER air on regular television to keep that audience satisfied. That's why shows such as "The Sopranos", "Deadwood", "Entourage", "The "L" Word", "Dexter", "Weeds" as well as movies that are uncut (with objectionable language and profanity) with no commercials keep the subscribers on...because they expect it. And as such, when a show is done with its run or pulled off the schedule, part of that subscriber base goes with it. HBO took a big jump when "The Sopranos" first aired, but also took a bit of a dive after the final show. For me, "The Sopranos" was the only reason why I subscribed to HBO.

So, one would think that if we are paying a "premium" (because after all we don't HAVE to have satellite radio), we should get some sort of compelling programming that would want us to stay on. And that's where the merger killed things because in our case, you had the two differing "philosophies" (Sirius as dance/pop "hits" and XM with more of a club feel, yet still hits in their own right) blended in. For casual/occasional fans, the "BPM" style would come off as "intimidating" and with BPM fans, the sound feels "watered down" from the Alan Freed days (excellent programmer I must add). Now, if satellite radio took on commercials, then losing a couple of fans would be no big deal to them since you do have an advertising revenue base that can keep the company afloat. However, this is a case where YOU NEED to keep things at a happy medium so as both sides of the philosophy can at least tolerate what's going on because, unfortunately, BPM will NEVER be that station pre-merger again and you really DO need us since we are paying for that "premium".

Having "Area" onto the XM side might have helped a bit though for the core househeads out there, losing "The Move" didn't help. As such on the Sirius side, you also had dedicated fans of stations like "Boombox" as well as those that wanted "The Beat" to remain...but that went. Perhaps dance fans don't matter much to Sirius/XM bottom line as rock fans do with the multitude of stations (with some rock groups getting their own dedicated "channel"), R&B/hip-hop fans, or other genres (jazz, classical, country, etc.), yet we still do subscribe and want our programming to really showcase what our community is all about. And if pop-remixes (to the core base) has to appear (and perhaps just my opinion on this) to satisfy that happy medium...so be it, just as long as the pop remix fans can open up to something that may be a bit "edgy" than what they are used to hearing.

But putting on that 80's stuff was a mistake and I am glad that Mike and Skyy rectified it. That should NEVER happen on "BPM" again. Regarding "The Strobe", I tune into that channel here and there. For those used to "The Chrome" on XM, what you're hearing is totally Sirius' take on the classic dance format and I could see why it may appear "diminshed" since XM was mainly a musical operation as opposed to acting like a terrestrial radio operation.

 

[Mid West Clubber]

I guess I was kinda a core househead.. the Move was by far my fav channel... I really enjoyed the more Adult sounds of Deep Soulful, and Prog House without the pop remixes,,, but Area plays very little House. What about the Brekbeat heads that lost boombox, that didnt help either,, now Louis and Todd are outta work.

 

[d21ofnj]

did BPM switch channels? I am hearing hip hop right now