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What is wrong with the audio on WYAY?
- Thread starter BIGSTICK
- Start date
BRENT said:
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Citadel (WYAY’s owner) went bankrupt a couple of years ago when they bought ABC’s (but not radio Disney) radio stations and the Satellite programming operation in Dallas. It is my personal experience when radio stations are cutting expenses the ONLY way anything technical gets done is when the station is off the air. IMHO ever since 106.7 left the 97.1 tower it has been a “down hill slide” signal wise. There was a time when the audio would “burp” or cut out for a couple of seconds at least once an hour when they were on the satellite “True Oldies Channel”. Some posters on this board blamed the T1 out to the tower. The 104.7 Fish is on the same tower and they do not have this problem. I do not know what kind of STL the Fish uses but their stuff works. Now Citadel is in the process of being bought by Cumulus. There will be more “synergies” (cut cuts) so do no expect much improvement.
Their move took two hits. On paper, it looked good to the people who owned the company - more people under the coverage circle on a map. In the real world however, It covered those people well where it was. The move required a downgrade in class, which means the distance over which the station is protected from other signals was reduced. Consequently all the outlying signals on co or adjacent channels either moved closer in physically or upped their power. End result: Large smoking hole in the foot. Additionally, the program delivery to the current site is not the most reliable. It still goes through spells of several days where the signal interrupts for a half second and then resumes, maybe once an hour or so... most annyoing. It will be interesting to see what the Cloud Company does with it, if anything. Till they get there, don't anticipate any great improvments.
I'm no technical expert, but wouldn't it be quick and easy to play with the equalization and compression? Or would that require more trial and error over several nights than Citadel has the staff for? Or is it a hardware (cap improvements $$$) problem? Or is this a leftover from True Oldies (which may have required different processing coming off the bird than the current live format)?secondchoice said:
If Cumulus wants the station to be a player--as AGH or another format--they really need to quit making it sound like an AM talker.
Littlejohn is correct. Citadel should have (but never did) done something with the first adjacent WSKZ 106.5 signal in Chattanooga. I am sure that a better signal in the #7 market is worth a whole lot more than a full blown “C” in a sub 100 market. This might require some shifting of COL’s but Gainesville GA and Chattanooga both have plenty of commercial radio stations with the same COL, so the COL should not be an issue. There are a lot of tall hills or mountains north of Canton so the cost of a big tower could be avoided.
Citadel was not in the picture yet.
WOKA in Douglas, Ga was a co channel & short spacing issue and a deal could not be reached.
WOKA in Douglas, Ga was a co channel & short spacing issue and a deal could not be reached.
Citadel (soon to be Cumulus) right now owns 106.5 Chattanooga and 106.7 Gainesville. If 106.5 were downgraded wouldn’t it make moving 106.7 to a location farther west possible because 106.5’s C status has kept the 2 and 3 adjacent stations out of northwest GA.? I agree 106.7 will never be an in town C or C1 with good signal penetration in the Downtown and Midtown buildings thanks to WOKA, and the LPFM WPFT on 106.3 [which would mess up a frequency swap with 106.5 in Chattanooga (which could help 107.1’s Atlanta’s move into the market)] but a move back to 97.1’s tower or even go up on Sweat Mountain will improve the signal in Cobb and Cherokee without losing a lot of Gwinnet and the rest of the Northeastern suburbs. 106.7 will always have to find a format that will appeal to the folks north of Interstate 20.
Since we are not spending our own money has anyone thought about the old 105.7 tower just off 575? Would the FAA let you go higher? How much would cost to buy WOKA and find another freq for or move WPFT? I would bet that a C or C1 with decent coverage of the entire Atlanta market is worth more.
Since we are not spending our own money has anyone thought about the old 105.7 tower just off 575? Would the FAA let you go higher? How much would cost to buy WOKA and find another freq for or move WPFT? I would bet that a C or C1 with decent coverage of the entire Atlanta market is worth more.
T.G. said:
Until Cumulus takes over, (and maybe after) 106.7 will not have a audio "tune up*" which can take a couple of hours if every thing goes well.
*test tones with no AGC, equalized for flat response then you start adjusting the AGC for the "sound" you want. That how we did it in 70's and 80's. I am sure there is something better now.
WYAY ans WSKZ are very short spaced stemming from an agreement between the two in the 70's that allowed them to both to upgrade to 100kW later. Moving to north without both downgrading was not an option.
Had the WYAY antenna been side mounted lower on the Loganville tower then it could have had a 100kW ERP. The present 505 meter 77kW 60 db contour covered more people/area than the lower antenna's @ 100kW would. Even at reduced power of 77kW it is still a fully protected class C station.
Had WYAY stayed at the old tower it would have been downgraded to C0. This would have allowed other scenarios to unfold. Keeping full C status was one of the main objectives of move. Picking up more people in south metro counties that were getting diaries was also high on the list. The coverage area picked up was averaging 20 or more diaries per book and the area lost might have gotten 20 diaries over the 6 or so years we had diary data for.
Lots of scenarios were played out and the current configuration was the best gain and protection. Other possibilities were considered including construction of a tower between Gainesville and Loganville. There was only a small sliver of land off of 316 that could have hosted a full C WYAY and building a tower there was not an option. Alll the what if's of being a C0 or less were looked at. Taking C0 and letting other stations move in would have created large areas of adjacent channel interference in populated and growing counties. Data was also available to show diaries were distributed in these areas too.
WOKA was the only station stopping WYAY from being a 100kW @ 505m. They would not accept a briefcase full of Disney park hopper passes to make changes.
I still feel that sooner or later the FOX tower will be taken down to make room for more houses and golf courses.
Had the WYAY antenna been side mounted lower on the Loganville tower then it could have had a 100kW ERP. The present 505 meter 77kW 60 db contour covered more people/area than the lower antenna's @ 100kW would. Even at reduced power of 77kW it is still a fully protected class C station.
Had WYAY stayed at the old tower it would have been downgraded to C0. This would have allowed other scenarios to unfold. Keeping full C status was one of the main objectives of move. Picking up more people in south metro counties that were getting diaries was also high on the list. The coverage area picked up was averaging 20 or more diaries per book and the area lost might have gotten 20 diaries over the 6 or so years we had diary data for.
Lots of scenarios were played out and the current configuration was the best gain and protection. Other possibilities were considered including construction of a tower between Gainesville and Loganville. There was only a small sliver of land off of 316 that could have hosted a full C WYAY and building a tower there was not an option. Alll the what if's of being a C0 or less were looked at. Taking C0 and letting other stations move in would have created large areas of adjacent channel interference in populated and growing counties. Data was also available to show diaries were distributed in these areas too.
WOKA was the only station stopping WYAY from being a 100kW @ 505m. They would not accept a briefcase full of Disney park hopper passes to make changes.
I still feel that sooner or later the FOX tower will be taken down to make room for more houses and golf courses.
The 97.1/95.5 tower is on or adjacent to a ranch for boys from broken homes. Early in my Atlanta days, I drove onto the ranch and, with all my radio geekness, headed toward the tower. I wanted to see the transmitter building. That went fine, except I then got lost and couldn't find my way out of the ranch. I saw a man playing ball with a kid and didn't really want to ask him because he might ask me what I was doing on the property. But he was nice and gave me the directions out. 
To Widow's_son:
The signal from the new facility is great! Anyone who understands the technical side of the business would not question the reason for the move. There is practically no difference between 77,000 watts and 100,000 watts but the additional height makes a measureable difference.
WYAY's signal was improved noticeably with the move in the western metro area. I would think the only coverage loss would be well north of the 15 county metro Atlanta area.....
The main gripe seems to be the audio. IMHO the audio doesn't sound bad....at least the times I've listened. Most people could care less about the audio "quality." Research conducted years ago by CBS found that noise was the one thing the average listener noticed and would affect listening.....nothing else.
Argue the merits of the programming all you want.....enough with these threads about the way a station "sounds." They sound different on every radio to every ear.......
The signal from the new facility is great! Anyone who understands the technical side of the business would not question the reason for the move. There is practically no difference between 77,000 watts and 100,000 watts but the additional height makes a measureable difference.
WYAY's signal was improved noticeably with the move in the western metro area. I would think the only coverage loss would be well north of the 15 county metro Atlanta area.....
The main gripe seems to be the audio. IMHO the audio doesn't sound bad....at least the times I've listened. Most people could care less about the audio "quality." Research conducted years ago by CBS found that noise was the one thing the average listener noticed and would affect listening.....nothing else.
Argue the merits of the programming all you want.....enough with these threads about the way a station "sounds." They sound different on every radio to every ear.......
On a radio board, I really don't think you're going to eliminate threads about the way a station "sounds" - especially when you're listening with headphones to 97.1 and 106.7 - and they play the same song. Aaauuuugggghhhh!
97.1 - the music was there (especially the bass*). It was a "full" sound.
106.7 - the music was overly compressed. You knew the bass was there, but you just didn't hear it. Flat tinny sound.
(* "natural" bass - not urban-type digital bass)
Honestly, I like 106.7, but I can't listen to it because it gives me a headache. A change in location, tower, personnel, short-spacing, whatever, only gives an excuse but doesn't fix the problem. Pull off on the compression, WYAY, and listen to the improvement.
trusty said:On a radio board, I really don't think you're going to eliminate threads about the way a station "sounds" - especially when you're listening with headphones to 97.1 and 106.7 - and they play the same song. Aaauuuugggghhhh!
97.1 - the music was there (especially the bass*). It was a "full" sound.
106.7 - the music was overly compressed. You knew the bass was there, but you just didn't hear it. Flat tinny sound.
(* "natural" bass - not urban-type digital bass)
Honestly, I like 106.7, but I can't listen to it because it gives me a headache. A change in location, tower, personnel, short-spacing, whatever, only gives an excuse but doesn't fix the problem. Pull off on the compression, WYAY, and listen to the improvement.
Yes, that what I meant it sounds very "tinny" and harsh.
trusty said:On a radio board, I really don't think you're going to eliminate threads about the way a station "sounds" - especially when you're listening with headphones to 97.1 and 106.7 - and they play the same song. Aaauuuugggghhhh!
97.1 - the music was there (especially the bass*). It was a "full" sound.
106.7 - the music was overly compressed. You knew the bass was there, but you just didn't hear it. Flat tinny sound.
(* "natural" bass - not urban-type digital bass)
Honestly, I like 106.7, but I can't listen to it because it gives me a headache. A change in location, tower, personnel, short-spacing, whatever, only gives an excuse but doesn't fix the problem. Pull off on the compression, WYAY, and listen to the improvement.
You're right.....this IS the place to offer opinions on audio as well as anything else radio. All of us have a choice as to what thread(s) we choose to read......
But my point is that every radio station sounds different on every radio. And everyone hears things differently and all have their own tastes and opinions. It seems some people actually like the sound of heavily processed audio - others don't. (Go to the engineering section on Radio-Info and read the threads on audio processing. Some of the stations described as "fantastic sounding" sound, IMO, like dog squeeze.)
6 people on this thread don't like the station's sound but it cumes hundreds of thousands every week. Audio seems to be good enough for most. The programming consultants and local PD must like it or things would be quickly changed. And these guys are supposed to be the "experts!!"
I again cite the research done back in the 60's by CBS. People just really do not care. There is other reasearch that does seem to show that extreme clipping and limiting of dynamic range (i.e. lot's of compression) does cause listener fatigue, especially with female listeners. That may explain your headaches, Trusty!
The best sounding station in Atlanta, IMO, is WRFG. Listen on a Sunday morning when they have some technically well recorded music playing - it is wonderfully tasteful sounding. That should be our goal as programmers and engineers.....to make the listening experience "wonderful." I think many of us in the business have lost sight of that........
G
GoodTimesandGreatOldies
Guest
I heard WYAY and the sound does really suck. Whatever happened to the old signal??? Needs more REVERB!!! Also, it looks like they FINALLY realized thaey had really SCREWED up the playlist after leaving the True Oldies Channel. They were playing WAY too many repeats and WAY too much stuff like 97.1 plays. The playlist seems to have been recently expanded with alot more of the 1960`s Good Time Oldies back!!
Audio Processing is like art, everyone has an opinion... Most of you that have commented in this thread are really clueless (with the exception of taylorengineer). The general public care about content, and if the "proceesing" isn't god awfull, 99% could care less who's louder, softer more compressed, clipped and so on. There are SO many varibales to consider. 90% of all radio listening is in a car. So, dynamic range can be a killer in the signal. Soft passages getting lost due to road noise, phone callers getting lost... There are also settings on all radios called "Bass", "Treble" and Volume. I for one will always go for dynamic range and an "open" sound, rather than a compressed sound and use the end user adjustments to taylor my personal listening enviorment. Loudness does not equate to "quality".
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