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What, no November ratings talk?
- Thread starter DN14224
- Start date
I know it’s 12+ but KISW seems to have dropped off a bit.
Yes but it's still #1 in all key demos and KZOK is right behind at #2.
Which may say something about the average age of KIRO and those other stations in 6+
We know by now that these numbers aren't telling the full story, but I wonder how safe the format is over at 107.7. I only mention it because Audacy flipped their alternative station in San Francisco to a format that was already well being covered in the market. I'm not a fan of their new direction, but I hope it doesn't suffer the same fate.
And may say even more about the average age of radio listeners in general.
Thanks.
As a longtime fan of 107.7 who until recently had that station as the No. 1 preset on my car radio, I still don't understand what The End is doing these days. As a result, I find myself listening to KEXP much more, despite its marginal signal here in Snohomish County. That station's playing new bands I like that seem to actually be "alternative." Most of the music The End is playing also are played by either pop stations or classic rock stations.
Also interested to see what happens to KIRO-FM now that Tom Tangney's left the afternoon show. Curley's new co-host tends to agree too much with him, and folks like me who don't agree often with Dori, Curley, or Stine have even less of a reason to listen. On the other hand, the ratings say it's working so far.
No, I sample what's on talk radio a lot while I'm in the car, including on 570 and 770 AM. But when the hosts' takes are always predictable and over the top with no actual debate, it's tedious to me. I mean, Dori's down to about five themes he rants on; even my more conservative parents don't tune in anymore. For what it's worth, I don't listen to shows like "Democracy Now!" much for the same reason, even though they're on the left.
Am curious what distinguishes those two stations, and what you like/dislike about them. I rarely sample FM stations (now mostly stuck on Sirius/XM), and even less so the stations that are unfamiliar to me. That being said, I "filled in" as my daughter's date a couple years ago for The End's "Summer Camp" at Marymoor. Expected to "tolerate" the day with a bunch of unfamiliar music, etc. -- and wound up enjoying it a bunch as the music was really new and different for me (yeah, I was "bred" on Top 40 pop and need an enema after about 60 years of it). But I still haven't actually sampled the stations even though I found that sampler of artists interesting and enlightening....
I agree with you completely on 107.7. It was formally my go-to station in town, but it isn't what it used to be. I've been tuning into 102.7 "The Peak" in Vancouver, which I perceive to be a significant improvement over this new Audacy model. Obviously, they have to meet their Can-Con quota on 102.7, but the music mix generally leaves out are polarizing on an "alternative" station (i.e, the tracks that have pushed a lot of listeners away from Audacy outlets). As far as I know, 102.7 has been a hit in their target demographics and will maintain their current direction. We're talking about two different markets, but I think the "The Peak" model would fit the Seattle market better. It definitely can be done.
So, I've thought about this the past few days and even tuned into 107.7 in the car for a while on Friday. I also looked at their playlists a few different times of the day. I guess my complaint mostly is with Audacity and its "gatekeeping" for what's alternative music.
For example, "Beggin'" by Måneskin is getting lots of airplay on The End. It's a four-year-old song that got hot after Måneskin won the Eurovision contest this year. I was wondering why it's getting so many plays and then saw it's high on the Billboard "alternative airplay" chart, so The End's not alone in pushing that song. Mostly, Audacity doesn't stray too far from playlists that mostly favor pop songs with alternative elements in them rather than truly alternative music. And they sprinkle in LOTS of '90s and early 2000s alt hits over and over; seriously, the amount of Red Hot Chili Peppers songs they play from that band's "Californication" era is absurd.
But I looked up playlists from the legendary KROQ-FM in L.A. (also Audacity) and was surprised/depressed to see they play EVEN MORE old alt hits than The End in a typical musical block. So, this obviously is an Audacity thing. Look, I love vintage Nirvana and other alt classics, but if I'm going to listen to the radio rather than a Spotify playlist, I want more than just the classics. For example, The End introduced my ears to Meg Myers when she first hit it big in 2014. She's since made several albums with singles that would fit nicely on the radio. But the only song they play regularly by her is the early 2020 cover of "Running Up That Hill" that she did (and they play it A LOT). They do the same with other artists; Lana del Rey had a very highly regarded album this year, but they tend to play only one older hit by her or her cover of Sublime's "Doin' Time."
Anyway, when The End played yet another old Red Hot Chili Peppers' song during Friday morning drive time, I went over to KEXP, which played TORRES' "Don't Go Puttin' Wishes in my Head" and then Wet Leg's "Chaise Lounge" in succession. Those are two of my favorite songs of the past year. Wet Leg was featured as a "buzz artist" for about a week on The End in the late summer and doesn't get play anymore there. There's plenty of good new music that I'd consider alternative, but Audacity's not playing most of that. Sorry for the rant!
The problem with the alternative format is that it's become a very fragmented and very individual format that doesn't attract the mass audience required for commercial radio. So stations like KEXP are likely to be the best outlet for this music moving forward.
Wow - Just looked at their "recently played" list, and it's WAY better than The End while still including more pop-leaning bands like Twenty One Pilots (not a fan of theirs, but I recognize they're popular). I noted, for example, they played one of those radio-friendly Meg Myers' songs that The End won't touch. Also, maybe it's just to fulfill their Can-Con quota, but a station that plays Tegan & Sara songs like 102.7 apparently does would get me to tune in.
As mentioned before, going back more than a decade we saw alternative music tests very fragmented. Partisans of the short list of "big mass appeal songs" split into multiple groups on everything else... what one group like, another hated and another barely tolerated. So there was no mass consensus.
I think you're right, as I've drifted more and more to the noncommercial stations like KEXP and C-89 in recent years. I'm also on the board of a nonprofit station (KSER 90.7 & 89.9), and we never, ever talk about playlists with the station manager. The volunteers who go on the air solely decide that as long as they stay on the right side of the FCC. Not great for ratings, but good for listeners!
I’ve been a lifelong fan of the alternative format, and it amazes me how well the format can be executed when someone puts thought into it. Before Audacy started to streamline (and KNDD still had local voices), I would argue that the playlist was just fine. Obviously, they had to mix in some music that crossed over with CHR, but most fans of alternative music wouldn’t tune away.
What 107.7 has become today makes no sense if you ask me. Perhaps the format has become fragmented, but how does that explain the success that other alternative stations have? In Vancouver CFOX is a strong performer, and the playlist is very much like “the peak” (with a few more 90’s tracks thrown in). In San Diego, 91x also provides a breath of fresh air.
Would there be any advantage in giving the more traditional alternative fans what they want, rather than focusing on gold tracks from Nirvana and pop songs from Post Malone? It seems that this new direction for Audacy may also not be the best strategy, but that’s purely observation.
Thanks very much for taking the time to articulate. Interesting thoughts and comments.
Sounds like one issue (not much different in the Alt. format as mainstream pop) is that the corporate programmers find a VERY SAFE lane in which to live. To me, that's the philosophy that has almost smothered commercial radio.
The product needs surprises once in awhile...not the kind that leave listeners wondering "are these guys off their med's" but something they might not normally do -- and probably won't do again for a few weeks. Maybe it's a song, maybe it's a background story or interview with an artist, or some history about how a composition came to be -- but something more than "here's the 7th of 11 in a row" spit between the 987th spin of a song within a week.
My two fave shows on Sirius right now ... Kasem's AT40 reruns (because you get the entire playlist for a week -- songs that would NEVER be played in rotation), and Tommy James' "Getting Together" on the 60s channel -- because he spins stories about the evolution of songs, and sets are put together with similar rhythms, similar licks, etc. -- without being so hit-with-hammer obvious as explaining why they are playing those songs together. Sounds like Audacy (and damn near everyone else) could take a hint from the "surprise me" factor behind those two examples.
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