The traditional way of getting a head's up that FM may be getting ready to skip has been to watch for skip on 2-6. Anyone found a proven alternative now that we've lost that tool? LPTV's can't be counted on to skip. Paging companies use frequencies just below 76mhz to broadcast their signals over wide areas, but so far, I haven't heard of anyone observing skip there--plus they are vertical, whereas almost all DX antennas are horizontal. Most State Police transmitters in the 42mhz range are rarely used since 800mhz trunking has spread. Anyone found a good DX indicator in the sub 54mhz range?
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What now that Low Band TV is gone?
- Thread starter BobOnTheJob
- Start date
There will be stuff popping up on the old channels 2-6. Do you think that such valuable frequency space will be wasted?
There are a handful of channel 6 LPTVs with audio on 87.7, so if you hear 87.7 come to life, there's e-skip or tropo.
In fact, a DXer in Springfield, MA picked up an 87.7 that was playing dance music, the only dance-formatted 87.7 is WNYZ. There was no need to wait for an ID.
There are a handful of channel 6 LPTVs with audio on 87.7, so if you hear 87.7 come to life, there's e-skip or tropo.
In fact, a DXer in Springfield, MA picked up an 87.7 that was playing dance music, the only dance-formatted 87.7 is WNYZ. There was no need to wait for an ID.
What's been lost? Till July, night light stations are on the air in the U-S. Canadian analogs are on till August, 2011 and Mexican stations will be on far longer than that. In fact, with U-S "low band" stations gone, I'm seeing Mexico and Canada almost daily.
Certainly...but at the speed of government, it'll be a while and when it arrives, it's likely be lower powered vertically polarized digital services (maybe even point to point?) that DXers will be unable to decode. True, there are a few LPTV's 6's out there, but they don't give you the chance to watch the skip work it's way from 54 mhz up. Whatever replaces TV on 2-6, I sincerely doubt we'll be able to hear the audio from it, that it will have massive horizontally polarized power and that it will be available in most parts of the country as TV 2-6 was. I don't think there's a replacement for the 54-88 mhz flamethrowers that we were blessed with before, but I had to ask just in case I was missing something...Nick said:There will be stuff popping up on the old channels 2-6. Do you think that such valuable frequency space will be wasted?
F
FreddyE1977
Guest
A good use would be to expand the FM band for community broadcasting, but given the current state of Federal spending and the budget deficit, look for that space to be auctioned to the highest bidder.
FreddyE1977 said:A good use would be to expand the FM band for community broadcasting, but given the current state of Federal spending and the budget deficit, look for that space to be auctioned to the highest bidder.
I'd be surprised if any frequency below 88 MHz has much monetary value in a spectrum auction. The ionosphere is considered a liability for most modern communications services and technologies, not an asset.
Outside of hams, the few remaining SW broadcasters, and the military, I don't see much use of the lower frequencies in the future. This is 2009, not 1949.
It's not the ionosphere that's the issue. Tropo is a much bigger issue on lower VHF frequencies than sporadic-E. Heck, Es is fleeting and seasonal. Still, co-channel interference isn't the problem -- it's wavelength.
Most of the services that will utilize newly-vacated frequencies are land mobile, and other portable media. Efficient antennas below 88 MHz are just too big to be useful. Nobody wants a 1/4 λ antenna sticking out of a personal device. It would poke them in the eye, be difficult walking through doors, and otherwise just be annoying. Never mind the fact that electrical interference becomes increasingly an issue as one goes down in frequency. Ask any 6m ham.
Low-band TV will likely remain, if for no other reason than no one else would really want it.
DE
Most of the services that will utilize newly-vacated frequencies are land mobile, and other portable media. Efficient antennas below 88 MHz are just too big to be useful. Nobody wants a 1/4 λ antenna sticking out of a personal device. It would poke them in the eye, be difficult walking through doors, and otherwise just be annoying. Never mind the fact that electrical interference becomes increasingly an issue as one goes down in frequency. Ask any 6m ham.
Low-band TV will likely remain, if for no other reason than no one else would really want it.
DE
Tropo also affects UHF frequencies, I've gotten tropo on my digital TV in the UHF band.
Imagine a 75 centimeter antenna sticking out of a cell phone.
Take 6 mHz, and allow people to broadcast unlicensed at any power they want and any frequency within the band. That might get rid of the pirate stations that infest certain cities. If say, 82-88 mHz is opened up, radios that tune down to 82.1 will be manufactured.
With the rest of the space, use it for HD radio. Every FM station would have its HD station 26 mHz below its analog frequency, and at 100% of analog power. That might have the HD signal reaching further than the analog signal. And for 54-62 mHz, put AM HD stations there.
Imagine a 75 centimeter antenna sticking out of a cell phone.
Take 6 mHz, and allow people to broadcast unlicensed at any power they want and any frequency within the band. That might get rid of the pirate stations that infest certain cities. If say, 82-88 mHz is opened up, radios that tune down to 82.1 will be manufactured.
With the rest of the space, use it for HD radio. Every FM station would have its HD station 26 mHz below its analog frequency, and at 100% of analog power. That might have the HD signal reaching further than the analog signal. And for 54-62 mHz, put AM HD stations there.
I'm for anything that will unclutter the FM band...some say that's what killed AM. Between IBOC, 80-90, translators, LPFM's, possibly dropping 3rd adjacent protection (which I don' think is a bad idea...they set those standards before ceramic IF filters--it's a rare radio that can't ignore something 3 channels away) & pirates, the FM band is headed the way of AM--an ocean of interference with islands of service. If the consensus that the 2-6 channels are largely worthless, expanding the FM band downward may stand a chance.Nick said:Tropo also affects UHF frequencies, I've gotten tropo on my digital TV in the UHF band.
Imagine a 75 centimeter antenna sticking out of a cell phone.
Take 6 mHz, and allow people to broadcast unlicensed at any power they want and any frequency within the band. That might get rid of the pirate stations that infest certain cities. If say, 82-88 mHz is opened up, radios that tune down to 82.1 will be manufactured.
With the rest of the space, use it for HD radio. Every FM station would have its HD station 26 mHz below its analog frequency, and at 100% of analog power. That might have the HD signal reaching further than the analog signal. And for 54-62 mHz, put AM HD stations there.
I've already noticed surprise skip on FM without much indication from 54-88MHz as of 6/12/09. I do run a scanner in that range including various 72-76 MHz paging and other communication services. Although there is an abundance of these around the US, signals have proven to only be reliable to indicate strong E skip as they usually don't appear until Es is already well into the FM band. DTV television have a "pilot" frequency, which sound like a dead carrier that will fade in and out with skip. On channels 2-6 the pilot frequencies are 54.310, 60.310, 66.310, 76.310, and 82.310. There's only a few DTV stations on low-VHF so these are not very reliable as skip indicators either.
I'd like to see the USA get an amateur radio allocation at 70-70.5 MHz. 4 meters has become quite popular in Europe with many countries there receiving access to the band recently.
Combine 6 meters, DTV2-6 pilots, analog TV outside the US, and the 72-76 MHz services and you still have a fairly reliable way to see skip fire up before it happens on FM.
I'd like to see the USA get an amateur radio allocation at 70-70.5 MHz. 4 meters has become quite popular in Europe with many countries there receiving access to the band recently.
Combine 6 meters, DTV2-6 pilots, analog TV outside the US, and the 72-76 MHz services and you still have a fairly reliable way to see skip fire up before it happens on FM.
kd8hho said:i like above would love to see 4 meters opend up for hams here.
also 76-88 should be opend up for fm broadcast. maybe 1kw ERP and use it for community and the am graveyard stations
Good ideas.
radioman148 said:kd8hho said:i like above would love to see 4 meters opend up for hams here.
also 76-88 should be opend up for fm broadcast. maybe 1kw ERP and use it for community and the am graveyard stations
Good ideas.
Yes, the FCC should move about 80% of the graveyarders - especially in the urban areas to FM, keep the stations in rural areas for coverage purposes.
4 Meters I would agree is needed for Hams - 2 meters is way overcrowded. How much of a slice would the Hams get? 2MHz, 4MHz? 2 meters is 144-148 MHz.
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