A two parter.. since any decent AM station line up and team from the past would blow away today's canned competition... but which FM and AM station, announcing teams & format from the past would blow away the competition today... or at least give them a run for the money. When I say past, I don't mean two yaers ago.. lets go back to the 60's through early 90's.... was there a station and crew ahead of their time that could actually survive in today's market?
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What old format and station from the past would still kiick it today?
- Thread starter emo474
- Start date
I'd vote for an updated, refreshed, and tweaked WARM circa 73-79. Believe me, I am not saying the same voices/people, but I am saying that a full-service format with an emphasis on music could make some waves. If you've ever heard me whine about AM, then you know whatever you did would have to be FM. I wouldn't even consider AM, not for a second. Snap, crackle, and pop are best left in your breakfast serial. (A bit of trivia; Snap, Crackle, and Pop were invented and drawn by Keith Martin's late father-in-law, Vernon Grant.)
T
The Watcher
Guest
How about an old ABC-AM format from the sixties like with Cousin Brucie, Harry Harrison, Charlie Greer, Herb Oscar Anderson and who was it that did the "Huggybear" thing?
Maybe not a Poconos station, but how about a gold-leaning/based Hot AC that plays the hits KRZ et al made famous, coupled with a high energy, personality-driven delivery and classic jingles? Sort of like an updated CBS-FM?
I'd vote for an updated, refreshed, and tweaked WARM circa 73-79.
I'd really have to add the caveat that this "Dream Station," whatever it would be, could grab a decent share of the market, but it would never dominate. If you're looking to build and grow a product that could dominate like a WARM, WFIL, WABC, KHJ, etc., it really would be a fool's pursuit. In today's broadcasting environment, such a station couldn't exist. Speaking of KHJ, poke around for an old aircheck with The Real Don Steele and Robert W. Morgan, there are plenty on the net. Listen to that BOSS format. Freshen it, update it, do it right, and you might have another contender of a format. If you get a chance, ferret out an old aircheck of M.G. Kelly on KSTP. Outstanding. THAT kind of radio could work again. It had a contagious fun and magic to it that seems lost today. When it came to contagious fun, no one could touch Dale Dorman, especially during his days at WRKO in Boston.
Please, I am not trying to bring those good old days, because I'm a firm believer that the good old days never really were. What you could do, though, is go back and wander through the cafeteria of radio picking what worked, and tossing what didn't.
You're missing my point... I want local stations from NE PA to fill this list, not WABC... were there any local stations, formats, and jocks who could certainly survive in todays banal programming. I want the whole ball of wax too.. not just one jock, but the whole station and format.. was any station ahead of it's time and right for today?
N
normhill007
Guest
This is sort of a "Chicken or the Egg" topic-were WARM, WABC, KHJ, etc big because of the brand..or were they big because of the personalities. In most cases it was the personalities. But the branding brought the personalities. Harry West and Terry McNulty were WARM and are two examples where long careers came to a less than deserved end. The same with all the "big names" from radio's best years. Sadly, we can never go back, no matter what the format. While I thought Cuzin Brucie was king in the '60's, hearing his show on Sirius is sad. He sounds old (he is), his delivery sounds disjointed, and, the clarity of the satellite signal doesn't carry the intimacy of listening to some "far away, magical place"..For a kid growing up in the boonies in the 60's, commercials from Macy's and Gimbels made you want to shop there rather than Woolworths, and you wanted to grab the keys to the old man's stationwagon and take a joy ride to New York. If you never heard one of the best spontanious bits, you should try to see if it's still out there-It was in the 60's when Howard Cosell did a taped feed from home for local sports with Ingram. There were problems with the equipment so Cosell was just blabbering and singing (badly) while they tried to get things working right. Ingram got hold of the wild tracks and promo'd the next great singing sensation in America. After the break, another great buildup and then he hit Cosell singing. The next day, Cosell begins his report with something along the lines of "reliable sources tell me that management at WABC, in an effort to save money, is going automated..To which Ingram had it edited to say that WABC was going automated...automated...automated...Good stuff, spontaneous, and funny, without insulting listeners, giving away big prizes that lose their luster when the tax man cometh before you can even touch it..Ask the winner of the Magic Corvette who had to have it insured and taxes paid to even drive it home. Taking somebody's happiness and saying before you leave we need however many thousands of dollars it cost..(20 percent gift tax for the Feds, 6 percent for the state, a couple of grand for insurance)..all for a car that had already depreciated substantially but had to be paid at sticker. I don't remember WABC, or any of the other giants giving away anything. By the way, while the Magic Corvette thing was going on, we gave away hot dog buns and a scoop of ice cream..we went up over a point and Magic dropped nearly a point. Magic was stuck in the 4.5-5 range for the whole 7 years at WARM and only became a "Powerhouse" when WARM went talk. Combined, the WARM/Magic combo ran between 12 and 14 12+, more when you hit the 25-54 demo where, again, surprisingly, WARM carried the load. So, in closing, Boss Radio, Drake, (who almost killed radio in the early 70's and sort of what's happening now with the Entercoms, Clear Channel's, and Citadel's of the world) and all the other killer formats from the past can only have a chance at working today if there are personalities to carry it off..and most of us have been put out to pasture, or have become only shadows of our former self. Check around and see how many of the great names at WARM stayed on air long enough to collect Social Security, and if they're above poverty level. Basically, if you're shooting for a 25-54 audience, you don't cut it when you hit 55. Your choices are management or sales. Or find a station that will let you do a Saturday Night Oldies show or a small station that can barely afford the electric bill, let alone you. Sad reality.
This is sort of a "Chicken or the Egg" topic-were WARM, WABC, KHJ, etc big because of the brand..or were they big because of the personalities. In most cases it was the personalities. But the branding brought the personalities.
In all honesty, I cannot think of a format in this market that was ahead of its time, except for WARM back in the late 50s and early 60s, which is when they started rockin' and rollin' while everyone else was still playing Patti Page and Tennessee Ernie Ford. Once WARM set the standard, the wannabes lined up one after another. And one after another, they largely failed to get anywhere near WARM number-wise. WARM, again by design and forethought, managed to get so far out ahead of all other stations in the market that no one caught them for over 25 years.
Now, about Harry and Terry. Terry was treated horribly. He sued. He won. Small consolation, I suppose. Harry made his own bed. Leaving WARM was an enormous mistake. He really should have known better.
Then there's KHJ, WABC, etc.
My take on it, Norm, is that it was more of collaborative effort, especially with WABC and KHJ. These stations were built and tailored for success from the ground on up. Sure, they had big personalities, but formats were such that there was virtually no wiggle room. Where there was wiggle room, it was limited and built into the format for specific people. Ingram likely had more than a Ron Lundy...and I'd bet he had more than Harry Harrison, too. So, and if you go back and do even minimal research on this, the formats were meticulously designed THEN the personalities were found to fit the format, and not the other way around. BTW, I sort of agree on Bruce Morrow, it's time he moved gracefully away. As to how he sounds, I can only guess that Sirius(which I have and love)lacks the mountain of processing that the stations under discussion here once had. I've mentioned this before, but it's true. The first time I did an off-air aircheck at WARM, I thought - who the hell is that? It sounded tremendous, so unlike me that it was a little scary.
Not to be ignored is that these guys all had producers/engineers/board ops who were of the highest talent and skill. They could have likely made the guy who delivered the Danish every morning sound half decent. These stations also had money. Enough so they could pick any major market talent in the nation and recruit them. Can you imagine getting a call from WABC? While your imagining, think of all the hundreds of very talented jocks who busted their humps over the years to get a shot at a station like that and never came even close.
A few, possibly unrelated, thoughts here that have been in my mind since this thread began -- and even before.
(1) Possibly on this board, and definitely over at NYRMB, the concept of "local live" comes up occasionally. In my experience, there's nothing like knowing you can call the dj on the direct studio line. The dj doesn't have to answer if he/she is busy, but no one is that up to their neck that they can't take a call even if only for thirty seconds. Even at what was considered the nation's classiest station, WNEW-AM in NYC, you could talk to the dj on duty. The v/t can't do that.
(2) WNAK had a very viable format and darned good numbers, even after Bob sold to 81. Despite what some say, his being in the top 3 for all those years was no fluke. We can laugh at Margie's live remote "cow flop bingo" and the station's tie-in with Kost Tire when Nanticoke was overrun with tire-slashing, but things like that, and good jocks, help bring your combo to #7 from nowhere; she went and it went back to nowhere.
(3) I'm really surprised that there were no letters in the newspaper when WNAK went all-Hispanic. However, I did hear from two old people who like the Latino music. (One called the station, said while she liked the music, couldn't they toss in a polka once in a while?)
(4) I listen, via internet, to AM740, CHWO, a flamethrower out of Toronto. It's a Standards station and, apparently, doing quite well. Its target demo is 50+, although they obviously hit lower, and they've been doing this for the last seven years. Check it out (am740.ca) while you're doing something else online, unless you have 24/7 access and can keep it on as long as you want. The format is viable, if done right, and I think it could have been viable here -- I just don't know how and won't second guess 81's handling.
(5) What's going to revitalize radio around here? Serve your niche listeners. Give them the spoken information they are looking for: concert calendars, news they are interested in, local events. Sprinkle it throughout the broadcast day. Be the one-stop for their perceived needs. Since most of them are only interested in themselves, try to let them know how this or that happening will affect them (job or career openings, where to get cheap things, what the coming recession will mean to them).
(1) Possibly on this board, and definitely over at NYRMB, the concept of "local live" comes up occasionally. In my experience, there's nothing like knowing you can call the dj on the direct studio line. The dj doesn't have to answer if he/she is busy, but no one is that up to their neck that they can't take a call even if only for thirty seconds. Even at what was considered the nation's classiest station, WNEW-AM in NYC, you could talk to the dj on duty. The v/t can't do that.
(2) WNAK had a very viable format and darned good numbers, even after Bob sold to 81. Despite what some say, his being in the top 3 for all those years was no fluke. We can laugh at Margie's live remote "cow flop bingo" and the station's tie-in with Kost Tire when Nanticoke was overrun with tire-slashing, but things like that, and good jocks, help bring your combo to #7 from nowhere; she went and it went back to nowhere.
(3) I'm really surprised that there were no letters in the newspaper when WNAK went all-Hispanic. However, I did hear from two old people who like the Latino music. (One called the station, said while she liked the music, couldn't they toss in a polka once in a while?)
(4) I listen, via internet, to AM740, CHWO, a flamethrower out of Toronto. It's a Standards station and, apparently, doing quite well. Its target demo is 50+, although they obviously hit lower, and they've been doing this for the last seven years. Check it out (am740.ca) while you're doing something else online, unless you have 24/7 access and can keep it on as long as you want. The format is viable, if done right, and I think it could have been viable here -- I just don't know how and won't second guess 81's handling.
(5) What's going to revitalize radio around here? Serve your niche listeners. Give them the spoken information they are looking for: concert calendars, news they are interested in, local events. Sprinkle it throughout the broadcast day. Be the one-stop for their perceived needs. Since most of them are only interested in themselves, try to let them know how this or that happening will affect them (job or career openings, where to get cheap things, what the coming recession will mean to them).
T
The Watcher
Guest
God!
"Double U N E Double U, 11 3 oh on your dial, serving New York New Jersey and Conn Etttt E Cuttt twenty four hours a Dayyyyyyy!"
That used to be the station in our house when I was a kid. Claburn and Finch, then Rayburn and Finch, William B. Williams ---
Anyone remember the "weather man" Dr. Isadore Isobar?
Les Paul and Mary Ford! Perry Como! Georgia Gibbs!
Mule Train! Shrimp Boats! How Much is that Doggie in the Window?
That station was on all day in my house. I still remember the lyrics to almost everything they sang. You guys are making me cry!!!
"Double U N E Double U, 11 3 oh on your dial, serving New York New Jersey and Conn Etttt E Cuttt twenty four hours a Dayyyyyyy!"
That used to be the station in our house when I was a kid. Claburn and Finch, then Rayburn and Finch, William B. Williams ---
Anyone remember the "weather man" Dr. Isadore Isobar?
Les Paul and Mary Ford! Perry Como! Georgia Gibbs!
Mule Train! Shrimp Boats! How Much is that Doggie in the Window?
That station was on all day in my house. I still remember the lyrics to almost everything they sang. You guys are making me cry!!!
Jeez this thread just shook loose some random memories of listening to WBAX when it was on Union street, two doors away from River street. Honestly, I forget the years but remember the music. Anybody remember: "Amos the Organizer", a guy named Jack Flynn (I think) who I believe never used a name - buy his voice was the identifier, the Gibbons Experience? Yeah, beer commercials. mmmmm. They tapped into a market everybody else didn't seem to know what to do with.
The format was new music, album music, and the jock's personality. They could show up undercover at a Kings Outing (Scarlet Lake) and make all kinds of allusions to it, the bands that played, the people they met or saw. You would hear music from local bands get aired - some of it recorded in a living room or garage that weekend. They managed to make you listen, sell the image and create loyalty amongst the hippies. It was personal, local but you felt like it was a window to the nation.
After "The Flood" Jack got a job as a spokesman for H.U.D. and left the airwaves. Don't know where "Amos the Organizer" got to.
The format was new music, album music, and the jock's personality. They could show up undercover at a Kings Outing (Scarlet Lake) and make all kinds of allusions to it, the bands that played, the people they met or saw. You would hear music from local bands get aired - some of it recorded in a living room or garage that weekend. They managed to make you listen, sell the image and create loyalty amongst the hippies. It was personal, local but you felt like it was a window to the nation.
After "The Flood" Jack got a job as a spokesman for H.U.D. and left the airwaves. Don't know where "Amos the Organizer" got to.
Y
yonkstur
Guest
As the Dummer who is Mad says, that format on WBAX was truly remarkable in the late 60s. It was the brainchild of Jim Ward who let it rip after 6pm because the FM people did not have the foresight to try it. But that old building on Union Street housed a format in the 60s that might work now. Simple, community oriented.
6AM to 10AM Morning music show with news, sports and community guests.
10am to 2PM A talk show with a news block at noon.
2 to 6PM A combination music and garage sale show.
6 to 10pm Sports.
10pm to 1AM A night time local talk show.
1am to 6AM A locally hosted all night show.
Very community oriented. It would cost some bucks but it would have a niche against the syndicated Drudges and Savages and flying saucer guys on Talk Radio.
Yonkstur
6AM to 10AM Morning music show with news, sports and community guests.
10am to 2PM A talk show with a news block at noon.
2 to 6PM A combination music and garage sale show.
6 to 10pm Sports.
10pm to 1AM A night time local talk show.
1am to 6AM A locally hosted all night show.
Very community oriented. It would cost some bucks but it would have a niche against the syndicated Drudges and Savages and flying saucer guys on Talk Radio.
Yonkstur
Y
yonkstur
Guest
Was it a Merv Griffin station then?
No, it was locally owned but by whom I'm not sure. All I remember was that Jim Ward was the GM, Lee Vincent was in sales and they ran over 18 spots an hour. They had the Gibbons Polka Weekend too. I think Griffin took over sometime in the early 1970s when they flipped to an Oldies format. They were in the new building on Rt. 11 when Agnes came and chased Sam Liquori out of the studio just ahead of the water. Enterprise Rental cars are there now.
Yonkstur
No, it was locally owned but by whom I'm not sure. All I remember was that Jim Ward was the GM, Lee Vincent was in sales and they ran over 18 spots an hour. They had the Gibbons Polka Weekend too. I think Griffin took over sometime in the early 1970s when they flipped to an Oldies format. They were in the new building on Rt. 11 when Agnes came and chased Sam Liquori out of the studio just ahead of the water. Enterprise Rental cars are there now.
Yonkstur
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