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What should KIXI do next?
- Thread starter Cobra14
- Start date
There are very few area where AM's are the only available service... like on a remote farm in the Dakotas.
The problem is not coverage. The issue is that nobody under about 50 or 60 wants to listen to today's AM quality when they have loads of FM choices and thousands of streams to choose from. In most markets, AM listening is down around 5% and even in the best cases where there are some very good signals, the use of AM is around 10% (compared to 90% for FM). And, again, that listening is almost entirely by older listeners that advertisers don't want to reach.
When you look at diaries in the non-PPM markets where people write down mostly what they chose to listen to, very little classic hits or oldies formatted station listening appears.
In the PPM, which measures "hearing" as well as "listening", those stations get reported. Mostly it is not by choice but due to someone else in a car or workplace putting on a particular station.
Few markets even have "oldies" stations any more (later 50's and 60's and very early 70's songs predominantly is the accepted definition) because they can't make money. Classic hits is a 35-54 format, and only works on FM as the targeted listeners grew up when FM was absolutely dominant in the later 70's onward.
Yes, some under 55 people like "oldies" and some under 35 people like "classic hits" but we call them "outliers" in audience research and ratings analysis. To program to their tastes would destroy our core audiences in the salable 18-55 year old spread.
Over a period of about 4 decades I looked at several million diaries in Beltsville, Laurel and Columbia and am very familiar with listening trends.
There’s a lot of areas in the US where the only choice on the FM band is a CSN affiliate or another faith based station and a country station or other format. Limited. The rest of the band is fringe static filled stations from the nearest big city 65 or more miles away. Tune up the AM band and you have a pallet of variety that either comes in all day and night or just at night. I dial through the AM band at night and hear a variety of music stations. not just from here but also from Mexico and Canada. Bounce Radio 800 from up there, Country 900 classic country, rock, multiple oldies stations, like KYNO 940 KITI 1420 KBRC 1430 a few between 1620 to 1700 and other spots in the dial. Full of music. More and more in the last few years. Just spin the AM dial at night and you’ll hear what I’m writing about. Music is far from gone on the AM band.
Regarding PPM I wouldn’t put a lot of faith into the accuracy of it. From what I hear radio stations have installed devices to game the system in order to increase the ratings of certain stations due to inaccuracies in the measurements of certain formats. It’s called a Voltron or something similar. They can dial up and increase ratings per station as they choose. Also seems certain areas get a concentration of PPM devices and you see a gigantic spike in ratings based on where they happen to be in concentration. It’s like the blind leading the blind. Wouldn’t be surprised to see it abandoned in the future for a phone app or something more convenient.
Well, then I picked the perfect place to do AM radio!
That device, and a comparable one made by Nielsen, simply makes sure that the PPM code is inserted as often as possible in programming... they system can accommodate as many as 6 code bursts per minute, of course.
In any case, there is absolutely no doubt in the accuracy. If the PPM device picks up the code, the person wearing the device has heard that radio station.
No, they can't. All they can do is make sure the code is broadcast often enough for the station to get its due credit.
Counties are measured in proportion to their population in a metro area. It is one of the Media Research Council's stratification variables that is audited independently. Nielsen also tries to balance areas within counties so that even zones are as balanced as possible.
PPM households are selected to be part of the panel for up to 24 months, and they only change due to a household dropping out or the residence being in consistent non-compliance. This is not like the diary, where there is a new sample every week... the PPM has a 2-year panel, not a weekly sample.
Only to you as you don't understand anything about the PPM.
A phone app was used by the Pulse and Hooper. Both died in the 70's due to advertiser's preferring the vastly more complete and accurate Arbitron survey methodology and expanded metro areas.
Only a tiny portion of the US lives in an area where there are no commercial FM stations.
But no contemporary music of any kind except for AMs that are required to stay on the air to allow the use of a translator. If they could, they would turn off the AM.
Radio listening at night stopped being important about 40 years ago or so.
Both of those nations have tried to eliminate nearly all AM stations. 80% of Mexican AMS have close and moved to FM, and only in a couple of markets where there are no available AM channels and along the US border are any significant AMs left.
In some Western Hemisphere nations, like El Salvador, all that is left on AM is a few religious stations. In Europe, nearly every country has eliminated AM entirely.
As I said, that is only due to the FCC requirement for many hundreds of translators to keep their AM on the air to be "given" a translator. Nobody listens to the AMs, and those stations know it... many have filed for lower power, paricularly at night where they have eliminated directional systems and gone non-directional, sometimes with less than 100 watts!
“No, they can't. All they can do is make sure the code is broadcast often enough for the station to get its due credit”
How does this effect the perceived ratings when a station or group of stations has the device dialed up versus a station or group stations that don’t have the device installed or in play? If there was “no doubt about the accuracy” why did this device get invented and sold to stations across the country? Why did Nielsen admit to an erroneous system and send out patches to fix the “issue that didn’t exist”. Also certain age groups and demos aren’t participating in the surveys because of the aesthetics of wearing a pager. Among other things. I’m sure you can explain everything to refute any questions about though. You guys are pros at discrediting anyone who questions the establishment in the business. It’s your lively hood. Not mine.
How does this effect the perceived ratings when a station or group of stations has the device dialed up versus a station or group stations that don’t have the device installed or in play? If there was “no doubt about the accuracy” why did this device get invented and sold to stations across the country? Why did Nielsen admit to an erroneous system and send out patches to fix the “issue that didn’t exist”. Also certain age groups and demos aren’t participating in the surveys because of the aesthetics of wearing a pager. Among other things. I’m sure you can explain everything to refute any questions about though. You guys are pros at discrediting anyone who questions the establishment in the business. It’s your lively hood. Not mine.
“Radio listening at night stopped being important about 40 years ago or so”
Not to stack posts but I think radio listeners still exist at night. Isn’t that why stations change patterns and stuff at night to protect stations that are on air with coverage area rights during those hours? If it wasn’t important wouldn’t they eliminate the protection for those “big stations”. Again not trying to be a pain, just enjoy questioning things and getting responses back to learn about stuff.
Not to stack posts but I think radio listeners still exist at night. Isn’t that why stations change patterns and stuff at night to protect stations that are on air with coverage area rights during those hours? If it wasn’t important wouldn’t they eliminate the protection for those “big stations”. Again not trying to be a pain, just enjoy questioning things and getting responses back to learn about stuff.
Nobody knows. But the feeling is that stations with certain types of programming, such as talk-based morning shows, talk, sports and new give fewer moments where the coding can be added. The code, which can be emitted up to 12 times a minute if there is "matching audio" to mask the code, won't be emitted if there are pauses and even low passages in music.
In any case, if a person is listening and their "decoder" hears the pulses, they get credit. It's up to each station to evaluate how much low density audio it broadcasts and add an encoding boost. Remember, the PPM is only used in 48 of the top 50 markets and the stations that care about ratings have very high billing and the device is a one-time minor expense.
Ad agencies wanted faster ratings delivery from radio. The diary system takes more than a month to issue reports, and then for 90 day period. The PPM takes 2 weeks and can be seen at individual day and daypart granularity.
I have no idea what you are talking about. First the PPM was created by Arbitron and was already in effect when Nielsen bought Arbitron.
That is not true. Nielsen recruits full households, not individuals, for the PPM and the family can get considerable compensation for compliance.
And Nielsen is now rolling out PPM devices that are worn like a watch, a bracelet, a necklace or whatever that don't look like pagers.
This has nothing to do with our professions. The fact is that Nielsen surveys are audited by the MRC, which is responsible to the ad industry which wants extremely accurate data to support ad expenditures.
“I have no idea what you are talking about. First the PPM was created by Arbitron and was already in effect when Nielsen bought Arbitron”
I don’t work in the business so I’m not in the direct info circle about devices, but based on what you know it surprises me that you aren’t aware of the PPM transmitting device getting an “improvement” back then as a result of the stations installing these Voltrons or whatever they’re called to increase the transmission frequency of the data. It was a patch or something.
When you said “nobody knows” about the effect of installing devices to increase the data sent and groups that do not, haven’t they analyzed the data and found there to be an uneven playing field when certain stations are tampering with the system to “get credit” vs stations that are just running the Neilsen units without? That seems like a logical move to determine the accuracy of their system.
I don’t work in the business so I’m not in the direct info circle about devices, but based on what you know it surprises me that you aren’t aware of the PPM transmitting device getting an “improvement” back then as a result of the stations installing these Voltrons or whatever they’re called to increase the transmission frequency of the data. It was a patch or something.
When you said “nobody knows” about the effect of installing devices to increase the data sent and groups that do not, haven’t they analyzed the data and found there to be an uneven playing field when certain stations are tampering with the system to “get credit” vs stations that are just running the Neilsen units without? That seems like a logical move to determine the accuracy of their system.
This was not a "patch" by Arbitron. In fact, the Voltair was not developed for several years after the wide introduction of the PPM and more than 15 years after the first on-air PPM tests were done.
Over time, some stations that have non-music programs or full programming realized that not every minute in the hour had enough audio places to mask a PPM code burst. So a system was developed to "increase the volume" of lower level audio in the frequency zones where a PPM pulse would be emitted if possible.
Remember, it only takes detection in 5 separate minutes out of each 15 minutes to get credit for the quarter hour. In other words, there about 225 chances to encode in ever quarter hour and the detections don't even have to be consecutive. In some cases, it only takes 3 detections out of 225 "opportunities" for a station to get credit.
Even Nielsen provides a device that does the same sort of thing as a Voltair.
No station is tampering with the system since what the PPM does is detect what people are listening to. More detections don't distort listening... they just reinforce getting credit for every quarter hour of listening. Remember, Nielsen does not measure "by the minute". It measures AQH, Average Quarter Hour listening. Stations have the choice of trying to make sure the get enough credits to "win" a quarter hour that was actually and really listened to. There is no distortion of listening as it actually occurs.
If we’re talking about a station like KIRO-AM, Northwest News 1000, heck even KJR (or any station with a big signal), I’m more than happy to tune in, and I’m not even 30 years old. While the sound quality doesn’t compare to FM, a station like KIRO-AM provides a strong, clear, and steady signal to just about every corner of the market. To me, that’s good enough to be more than viable. When I was growing up, I was always impressed by stations like KIRO and how well the signal came in compared to some of the FM stations in town. That was long before I knew anything about transmitters, or the characteristics of AM versus FM.
“This was not a "patch" by Arbitron. In fact, the Voltair was not developed for several years after the wide introduction of the PPM and more than 15 years after the first on-air PPM tests were done.
Over time, some stations that have non-music programs or full programming realized that not every minute in the hour had enough audio places to mask a PPM code burst. So a system was developed to "increase the volume" of lower level audio in the frequency zones where a PPM pulse would be emitted if possible.”
So for quite a while the system ran without the increase in volume of the lower level audio frequency zones and the accuracy during that time may have been questionable. After several years Along comes a device to fix the issue. Meanwhile a whole bunch of data was collected, thought to be 100% accurate, stations flipped formats etc using that info. That’s what I’m reading here.
Over time, some stations that have non-music programs or full programming realized that not every minute in the hour had enough audio places to mask a PPM code burst. So a system was developed to "increase the volume" of lower level audio in the frequency zones where a PPM pulse would be emitted if possible.”
So for quite a while the system ran without the increase in volume of the lower level audio frequency zones and the accuracy during that time may have been questionable. After several years Along comes a device to fix the issue. Meanwhile a whole bunch of data was collected, thought to be 100% accurate, stations flipped formats etc using that info. That’s what I’m reading here.
Going to have to agree with you there. Some classic hits and oldies sound great on AM. Unfortunately I don’t think we’ll see an “oldies” format anytime soon (or ever), but a station like KRKO 1380 is worth listening to.
The Voltair was sold based on "what if" there could be more detections. There was no demonstrated evidence that there was a deficiency. Station bought the device "just in case".
This is no different that when, in diary days, San Francisco's KGO tried to get at least 50 mentions of the call letters in every hour... just in case they don't remember!
Ratings are "estimates". Evey ratings report says "estimate" on it.
“No station is tampering with the system since what the PPM does is detect what people are listening to”
If some groups are running the added device and some aren’t, that would mean some stations are getting the results of the modified data, as a result of the device and the stations that are running without it are getting the prior data that was considered inaccurate due to the lack of or lesser data in the audio. My question is, how do they equalize data from both groups, with or without adding the Votron Voltaire or whatever? Can they go “okay this group has one of those things installed, this group doesn’t use one of those things, we’ll adjust our measurement data accordingly” or is there an advantage to running that device still?
If some groups are running the added device and some aren’t, that would mean some stations are getting the results of the modified data, as a result of the device and the stations that are running without it are getting the prior data that was considered inaccurate due to the lack of or lesser data in the audio. My question is, how do they equalize data from both groups, with or without adding the Votron Voltaire or whatever? Can they go “okay this group has one of those things installed, this group doesn’t use one of those things, we’ll adjust our measurement data accordingly” or is there an advantage to running that device still?
No classic hits station sound good on AM. They play mostly 80's songs, and by the 80's essentially every listener to CHR radio was listening to FM.
Yes, oldies attracts people well into their 70's and advertisers don't seek that audience.
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