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What to do with WBEN's FM

J

jas2525

This marks the third consecutive no-show in the book for WLKK-FM a/k/a WBEN-FM.

Granted, there's a lot less overhead with a simulcast......but how much of a benefit is there to the simulcast when nobody's listening to it?

I still laugh when I think of the bidding war Entercom "won" to pick up that horrible signal. It serves as a glaring example of the reckless impulsiveness that was rampant among owners post-Telecom.
 
Because WBEN AM simulcasts 100% with (on) WLKK, the ratings that are posted on R-I's rating page will be shown on the WBEN line, displayed as the total for both stations. If, for example, WBEN has a 10 share Persons 12+, it would be the sum of all listening accrued by the AM + FM. Conceivably, the FM could have a 4 share and the AM could have 6 share. Stations that subscribe to Arbitron will be able to discern listening levels for AM and FM.
 
JustPastBuffalo said:
Because WBEN AM simulcasts 100% with (on) WLKK, the ratings that are posted on R-I's rating page will be shown on the WBEN line, displayed as the total for both stations. If, for example, WBEN has a 10 share Persons 12+, it would be the sum of all listening accrued by the AM + FM. Conceivably, the FM could have a 4 share and the AM could have 6 share. Stations that subscribe to Arbitron will be able to discern listening levels for AM and FM.
Click to expand...

Oh.

Interesting.

I hate that. I wanna know how the FM is doing!
 
One would think that Arbitron would do a better job of reflecting that in their ratings rather than listing WLKK with a zero. At least in public radio, the Radio Research Consortium, which provides publicly available Arbitron numbers for public stations nationwide (providing you know where to look), gives a cumulative number for WBFO and then breaks it down as to FM, AM and the two Southern Tier repeaters. You'd think the same would be available for WBEN's AM and FM signals. The zero listed with WLKK is unfair to Entercom because it makes it appear that 107.7 FM has no listeners, when that's obviously not the case.
 
There's another bigger story here.

Take a look at the WBEN line over the last couple of years of Arbitron 12+ reports, and for those of you with demo breakdowns, look at those. Then ask yourself this question; has WBEN added ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT in 12+ or 25-54 to its total as a result of the simulcast, compared to its performance at 930 AM alone (which was itself essentially a full-market-coverage signal)?

My reading of it is that the answer is no. Maybe someone can supply numbers that prove otherwise and if they can, that'll add something to the discussion. But until then, you have to wonder what the point was, and whether it all matters.

About the only effect I can see is that the ROCHESTER book was marginally affected (since WLKK reaches as well into the Rochester metro as it does into Buffalo) and may have taken a few listeners away from WHAM. MAYBE that was part of Entercom's plan, to keep Clear Channel's WHAM out of the top spot in Rochester so Entercom's own WBEE would be undisputed market leader and get a few extra national ad dollars...but it seems like a stretch to devote a whole Class B FM signal to getting a marginal advantage in a neighboring market and throwing away whatever revenue it could get from a separate programming stream.

Bottom line; they'd be better off resuminhg separate programming on 107.7 and getting whatever revenue they could get from it; or alternately, simulcasting WGR (AM), which has nighttime pattern issues in the eastern half of the Buffalo market which would be at least partially addressed by a 107.7 simulcast. WBEN would be helped more through a little engineering tweak (a slight adjustment of the null to the west toward Oklahoma City) that would allow them to bump up to 10 kW DA-N.
 
Bob1370 said:
There's another bigger story here.

Take a look at the WBEN line over the last couple of years of Arbitron 12+ reports, and for those of you with demo breakdowns, look at those. Then ask yourself this question; has WBEN added ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT in 12+ or 25-54 to its total as a result of the simulcast, compared to its performance at 930 AM alone (which was itself essentially a full-market-coverage signal)?
Click to expand...

You'd also have to ask whether they've avoided losing anything significant. What would have been their numbers without 107.7?
 
"What would have been their numbers without 107.7?"

If the very recent past is prologue, probably the same as with 107.7--namely somewhere around the 9s in 12+ AQH and fighting with WYRK for the overall market lead 12+. Which makes you wonder why they bothered to blow up 107.7 and turn it into WBEN's satellite instead of selling it, using it to fill WGR's far more serious signal gaps, or programming it to fill a lucrative niche, all of which would have gotten Entercom more $$$.
 
Bob1370 said:
"What would have been their numbers without 107.7?"

If the very recent past is prologue, probably the same as with 107.7--namely somewhere around the 9s in 12+ AQH and fighting with WYRK for the overall market lead 12+. Which makes you wonder why they bothered to blow up 107.7 and turn it into WBEN's satellite instead of selling it, using it to fill WGR's far more serious signal gaps, or programming it to fill a lucrative niche, all of which would have gotten Entercom more $$$.
Click to expand...

I've heard many programmers lament over the years that the format has to snap out of the conserva-clone political chatter rut it's been in, in order to guarantee the audience (ratings) don't just disappear by attrition. It seems that the effort to make this change has fallen way short, while the numbers are on course for what was predicted. I keep reading/hearing that many newstalkers are not getting the numbers they used to get and particular cornerstones are not fairing as well (ie; Hannity, Limbaugh, etc).

True?
 
I know the large broadcast groups are determined to wean their news/talk audiences to FM to limit erosion of their current audience shares and grow a younger following. However, I'm on record (and so are many others) as saying that WGR would currently benefit the most from an FM partner. In the past year they've picked up the Bills broadcasts and John Murphy and now the final piece.

They just announced that Kevin Sylvester is going to do a Sabres show from 10am-Noon, all year, live from the Sabres store.
Goodbye, Colin Cowherd (unless they plan to tape delay him or something).
 
Heh. I wonder what Bauerle would say if they took away "his" FM and gave it to Sylvester?
 
According to a reliable source, Persons 25-54, Mon-Sun, Winter 11 to Winter 12, WBEN is up about half a share, placing 4th place behind WYRK (the only station in double digits), 97 Rock and WBLK. The source could not say if the modest increase came from FM listening.

WGR doing Sabres talk from 10 to noon, especially in Bills season? This appears to be a concession to the Sabres who can't be thrilled living in the shadow of the Bills. Imagine, if you will (it's a stretch): the Bills are in contention in December, coming off a win in a big game, the city is in a frenzy, WGR's phones are lit up with Bills fans. Comes 10 o'clock and the host is talking about the Sabres playing Winnipeg. Gimme Cowherd.
 
"According to a reliable source, Persons 25-54, Mon-Sun, Winter 11 to Winter 12, WBEN is up about half a share, placing 4th place behind WYRK (the only station in double digits), 97 Rock and WBLK. The source could not say if the modest increase came from FM listening."

Let's suppose for a moment that this half-point bump in share isn't the result of random fluctuation in the survey numbers--and remember, a half point IS within the margin of error in Arbitron's diary markets, overall 12+ and in every major demo cell group, so you need to keep that in mind. They may have really gained nothing, and the next survey could drop by as much in measuring the same overall universe of listeners.

Was it worth throwing away more than two rating points in the same demos that they used to pull with a separately programmed 107.7?

If WLKK as a separately programmed station wasn't cutting it, helping WGR's crippled night signal probably would have paid off better than helping WBEN double-saturate the market.
 
Element9 said:
WGR doing Sabres talk from 10 to noon, especially in Bills season? This appears to be a concession to the Sabres who can't be thrilled living in the shadow of the Bills. Imagine, if you will (it's a stretch): the Bills are in contention in December, coming off a win in a big game, the city is in a frenzy, WGR's phones are lit up with Bills fans. Comes 10 o'clock and the host is talking about the Sabres playing Winnipeg. Gimme Cowherd.
Click to expand...

I knew I left something out. No Sabres talk 10-Noon on Mondays during NFL season.
 
I honestly don't know.
I still think a Country station would be smart to run on 107.7.
Were the numbers for WNUC really all that bad back in the day?
Ratings would be better than what they have now, and indeed better
than the easy lite station that aired prior to the WNUC days.
Plus, most likely, Country would do better than the Lake did.
 
WYRK is the heritage Country station in Buffalo. It's solidly entrenched in the minds of older and younger Country listeners and advertisers. Years ago when WNUC was Country, it had one or two books that were encouraging, but WNUC never came close to denting WYRK. The 107.7 signal has been discussed here dozens of times. It has better penetration in mono with talk, but it was spotty in many areas when it was stereo doing the Lake format. Whether "WBEN on FM" is attracting listeners in Buffalo, how many and in what demo, is known only to people who get the book. Additionally, Entercom won't put Country on a Buffalo signal (107.7) that covers parts of the Rochester metro. Doing so might diminish the ratings (if only in a small way) of Country WBEE, Rochester's #1 station. Ain't gonna happen. So the debate in Buffalo (and on this board) reverts to whether Entercom should be doing sports or news-talk on 107.7. The WGR night pattern is deficient to the east. We'll know a little more when that Thursday night game comes up. Entercom might trimulcast it on 550, 930 and 107.7 as they did the Sabres a few seasons ago during the playoffs. An engineer friend tells me at least one competitor will be monitoring WGR's pattern changes during the Fall to make sure they're done at the proper time. The intrigue never ends.
 
The lack of difference in WBEN's numbers simply indicates that it ain't the band, it's the content. If simulcasting on 107.7 was supposed to bring in younger listeners, it's not. Whether it's the talent, the political bent, or a combination of the two, the content just isn't bringing in a new audience.
 
If sports was a great idea, they would have gone straight from the
WNSA format right into the WGR sports radio feed uninterrupted.
They never would have bothered giving the Lake a try.

Let's face it. The real reason why News is now on 107.7 is simply because
iPods and other MP3 formats are only offering FM radios with their devices.

I'm not fully aware of the Rochester/Buffalo signal issues, so I can not comment on
the idea of a WBEE repeater on 107.7. (with local Buffalo content where necessary)
 
...funny, it comes down to:
A Business decision versus a "logical" decision

(*)Logical: in this case, means, it is a no-brainer, to
place alternate programming on 107.7 as the
passionate (and great) people on this board feel they should....
(if u can think of a better word), add it to the post/thread.

Also, reply w/ what would be the best alt_programming..

Personally, the other end of the spectrum for talk would be...pretty cool...
haha...
 
I was told by someone in a decision-making position with the company that The Lake would never disappear because it was "someone's" baby.

Hey who thought the Braves would ever leave!
 
jas2525 said:
I've heard many programmers lament over the years that the format has to snap out of the conserva-clone political chatter rut it's been in, in order to guarantee the audience (ratings) don't just disappear by attrition. It seems that the effort to make this change has fallen way short, while the numbers are on course for what was predicted. I keep reading/hearing that many newstalkers are not getting the numbers they used to get and particular cornerstones are not fairing as well (ie; Hannity, Limbaugh, etc).

True?
Click to expand...

This has been a big discussion on the Philly board where Hannity & Limbaugh have taken roost on Merlin's (aka Randy Michaels') WWIQ / 106.9 FM - purchased from Family Radio.

While the switch to FM might give these programs a bump vs. their old home on WPHT (ex-WCAU), the fact remains neither of these programs (nor Beck) garner the share they used to...

The interesting battle has become these syndicated talkers on FM vs. WPHT's new "live & local" talk lineup.

Richard in Allentown, PA (ex-East Aurora)
 
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