I don't live in detroit so i don't know how big of a problem this is, but why did the fcc license 102.9 out of Ann Arbor and approve 102.7. It seems like they should have made 102.9 go up a dial position or have 102.7 go down a dial position.
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what was the fcc thinking?
- Thread starter bwilliam614
- Start date
Cincinnati/Dayton has a double short space frequency deal with 101.7 Dayton and 101.9 in cincinnati and also 102.7 Cincinnati and 102.9 Springfield-Dayton. I GUess the FCC Figures if Cities are at least 40 or more miles apart they can get away with short spacing some frequencies
Going way back, both those stations didn't always have that potent of signal. WBRB-FM 102.7, and WNRS 102.9 (the calls I remember in the late 60s), sort of "grew up". I think it was a combination of newer antennas, and sneaking up the height of the antenna and placement of the tower.
H
Human Numan
Guest
I have noticed this about 102.7 FM and 102.9 FM interfering with each other.
I live in Inkster, Michigan and 102.9 FM W4 Country interferes with Hot 102.7 FM in Inkster, michigan where I live.
I can be just listening to my hip-hop on 102.7 FM and then hear country music going over it.
102.9 FM does infact interfere with 102.7 FM's signal in Inkster.
I love Hot 102.7 and I hate the fact that 102.9 FM the country station interferes with their reception here in Inkster.
I would suggest that they move 102.9 FM W4 country farther west from Detroit than Ann Arbor, Michigan to Jackson, Michigan.
102.9 W4 Country should leave Ann Arbor and move to Jackson and become a Jackson radio station.
I live in Inkster, Michigan and 102.9 FM W4 Country interferes with Hot 102.7 FM in Inkster, michigan where I live.
I can be just listening to my hip-hop on 102.7 FM and then hear country music going over it.
102.9 FM does infact interfere with 102.7 FM's signal in Inkster.
I love Hot 102.7 and I hate the fact that 102.9 FM the country station interferes with their reception here in Inkster.
I would suggest that they move 102.9 FM W4 country farther west from Detroit than Ann Arbor, Michigan to Jackson, Michigan.
102.9 W4 Country should leave Ann Arbor and move to Jackson and become a Jackson radio station.
H
Human Numan
Guest
102.7 FM which is owned by Radio One needs to ask the FCC for a power increase, and a directional aim repositioning of their antenna so HOT 102.7 can come in good in the western and northwestern Detroit. Michigan metro area.
Hot 102.7's transmitter is located in Clinton Township, Michigan at 14 Mile Road and Gratiot Avenue, near Mount Clemens, Michigan.
Who cares if Ann Arbors 102.9 FM's signal gets wiped out going into the inner metro Detroit area by 102.7 FM's signal. Only Ann Arbor area people should care if they can get 102.9 FM.
Also 102.9 WWWW FM's antenna and transmitter needs to be moved farther west from Detroit, and their antennas directional aim needs to be repositioned, and Cumulus Radio Broadscasting Company should be forced to do that.
I know I may be selfish and want to be able to get 102.7 instead of 102.9, but I would like to hear my hip-hop music in Inkster, Michigan from 102.7's transmitter with a strong clear signal on all my radios.
I can still pick up 102.7 in Inkster but it comes in very weak on good radios like my stereos and on my walkman 102.9 FM Country signal goes right over 102.7 hip-hop signal in all of Western Wayne County. On my walkman I have to listen to Country Music instead of hip-hop-RAP Music at 102.7 Mhz where I live at when im downriver in the city of Taylor or when im in Inkster where I live or anywhere else in Western Wayne County, because of 102.9 W4 Country's signal overpowering Hot 102.7 FM's signal.
I wish I could change all of this cause "It's Time For Change".
Hot 102.7's transmitter is located in Clinton Township, Michigan at 14 Mile Road and Gratiot Avenue, near Mount Clemens, Michigan.
Who cares if Ann Arbors 102.9 FM's signal gets wiped out going into the inner metro Detroit area by 102.7 FM's signal. Only Ann Arbor area people should care if they can get 102.9 FM.
Also 102.9 WWWW FM's antenna and transmitter needs to be moved farther west from Detroit, and their antennas directional aim needs to be repositioned, and Cumulus Radio Broadscasting Company should be forced to do that.
I know I may be selfish and want to be able to get 102.7 instead of 102.9, but I would like to hear my hip-hop music in Inkster, Michigan from 102.7's transmitter with a strong clear signal on all my radios.
I can still pick up 102.7 in Inkster but it comes in very weak on good radios like my stereos and on my walkman 102.9 FM Country signal goes right over 102.7 hip-hop signal in all of Western Wayne County. On my walkman I have to listen to Country Music instead of hip-hop-RAP Music at 102.7 Mhz where I live at when im downriver in the city of Taylor or when im in Inkster where I live or anywhere else in Western Wayne County, because of 102.9 W4 Country's signal overpowering Hot 102.7 FM's signal.
I wish I could change all of this cause "It's Time For Change".
Human Numan said:
Some of the most nonsensical, most impossible stuff Ive ever read.
Does he ever make any sense?
H
Human Numan
Guest
radioguybroadcasting said:
I try to make sense as much as possible. I'm a radio man cause I like radio.
Back when 102.7 was WBRB-FM, and 102.9 was WNRS, those stations had smaller sticks and there was no problem. These stations "grew up" and were maximized to full potential, which does cause some contours to overlap.
Bongwater, I don't know where you live, but in my "outpost" here in western Ohio, I can get a station on every FM channel on my omni-antenna on the roof, and sometimes as many as three on some FM channels depending on where I point the 11-element FM antenna.
This reminds me a lot of what the AM guys did when the Local Stations (1230, 1240, ect), all went from 1,000 day, 250 night, to 1,000 day/night. The overlaps got so severe that they actually lost service area.
They do it because they can. The F.C.C. rules allow it, so I guess we have to abide by it.
Bongwater, I don't know where you live, but in my "outpost" here in western Ohio, I can get a station on every FM channel on my omni-antenna on the roof, and sometimes as many as three on some FM channels depending on where I point the 11-element FM antenna.
This reminds me a lot of what the AM guys did when the Local Stations (1230, 1240, ect), all went from 1,000 day, 250 night, to 1,000 day/night. The overlaps got so severe that they actually lost service area.
They do it because they can. The F.C.C. rules allow it, so I guess we have to abide by it.
Bongwater said:
Hey, Bongwater...
I know you and I have disagreed on some issues before, but on this one, you are right on.
The FM band can be expanded to include plenty of room for the smaller AM's getting FM signals, with room for additional LPFM service. Moving those stations to FM would allow an extremely significant improvement to the AM band which just might make HD a reasonable option for the 50K stations that cover some ground. Just get the FCC to tell the receiver manufacturers to "get 'r done". (Yeah...I understand the politics of this).
The FCC simply cannot continue to allow the hash on AM in perpetutity. Otherwise, kiss it goodbye.
At least on FM, such bumping and grinding occurs in a relatively small area.
The mis-management/regulation of AM signals has turned a formerly useful service into a quagmire on AM.
As one who is often on the road, I really do miss the old concept of clears/regionals/locals/Canadian/Mexican and daytimers.
I used to be able to listen to a clear channel, since the mid 80's there is no such thing, and I'm still cranky about it.
The first one that really made me mad was 820.. used to be able to get WBAP almost everywhere I've ever been.
Then some pipsqueak decided they needed to run on 820 out east, with just enough power to ruin reception for about half the nation,
but not enough to actually cover more than 40 miles at night. Just great. And they thought they needed to run country music!
Guess what, pipsqueak? There already WAS country music on 820, until you ruined it!
There needs to be some kind of Federal Radio commission or something to co-ordinate frequency usage a la 1929.
Radio is not just local on AM. FM behaves differently due to the wavelength.
I sure do miss KSL, WBAP, WTIC and others.
The mis-management/regulation of AM signals has turned a formerly useful service into a quagmire on AM.
As one who is often on the road, I really do miss the old concept of clears/regionals/locals/Canadian/Mexican and daytimers.
I used to be able to listen to a clear channel, since the mid 80's there is no such thing, and I'm still cranky about it.
The first one that really made me mad was 820.. used to be able to get WBAP almost everywhere I've ever been.
Then some pipsqueak decided they needed to run on 820 out east, with just enough power to ruin reception for about half the nation,
but not enough to actually cover more than 40 miles at night. Just great. And they thought they needed to run country music!
Guess what, pipsqueak? There already WAS country music on 820, until you ruined it!
There needs to be some kind of Federal Radio commission or something to co-ordinate frequency usage a la 1929.
Radio is not just local on AM. FM behaves differently due to the wavelength.
I sure do miss KSL, WBAP, WTIC and others.
Tom, I saw your post and wondered if you knew that AM 820 WCPT got their CP to go 1.5 kw nights from six towersTom Wells said:
near Joliet.
I also want to agree with Fred about the locals, they should have stayed 250 watts at night. They are paying a higher
electricity bill now and getting less coverage. The other thing that absolutely amazes me is graveyards that go HD. Do
they not realize they are destroying their small coverage area even more.
really if 102.7 just moved to 102.5 this wouldn't be a problem. the translator on 102.3 simulcasts a smooth jazz station that is already in downtown detroit anyway (according to radio-locator anyway). the only thing i'm not sure about is if 101.9 and 102.5 would be to close together band wise according to the fcc. in real life it wouldn't be a problem but in the yellow tape world it might be.
i think 102.5 in saginaw would be just fine. It's pretty far away and it would still be able to cover what it is intended to cover. Like i said though i don't know if the fcc would go for that.
bwilliam614 said:
"It's pretty far away" doesn't cut it with the FCC. There are spacing tables that have to be followed, and Saginaw (Bay City, actually) is far too close for a co-channel class B to Mount Clemens. There's a minimum of 241 km (~150 miles) spacing between class B signals on the same channel - and there's only 128 km spacing between those two stations right now. You'd have to downgrade both stations to class A (6 kW) for them to be able to co-exist on the channel; in fact, they're considerably short-spaced even for first-adjacent stations, where the minimum spacing is supposed to be 169 km (~105 miles).
102.5 in Mount Clemens would also be too closely spaced to 101.9 in Detroit, to a Canadian allocation on 102.3 in Windsor, to 102.5 WBZV in Hudson, MI (near Hillsdale) and possibly to 102.3 in Sylvania, Ohio as well.
The whole idea behind the spacing tables, which went into effect in 1964, was precisely to prevent the short-spacing that was developing in situations like Mount Clemens/Ann Arbor.
M
Mid West Clubber
Guest
Mr Fybush,, Im glad to see you contributing to the board a bit more lately,,, Perhaps you always do, but just not on the boards I normally read.. I do love your TX website,,,It makes for hours of radio geek education when im board,,, and you really do seem to have an honest answer to any question.
Human Numan..... I understand your frustration,,, I used to have a class B that I listened to here until a year ago, and just 13 miles away they put an NPR translator,, which only has about a 5 mile usable range, but at my town, which is 13 miles from the translator, I now get a mixture of both stations on the same frequency.... Bummer,,,,But the FCC decided I was outside the protected contour...
At least where you live, you can pick up Channel 95.5 and 97.9 WJBR,,, I know that on paper technically hot 102.7 is a CHR Rhythmic,, and 97.9 is Urban. and 95.5 is supposed to be CHR Mainstream,,,,,,,,,But to my ears,,, they are all 3 hip hop stations.....
Human Numan..... I understand your frustration,,, I used to have a class B that I listened to here until a year ago, and just 13 miles away they put an NPR translator,, which only has about a 5 mile usable range, but at my town, which is 13 miles from the translator, I now get a mixture of both stations on the same frequency.... Bummer,,,,But the FCC decided I was outside the protected contour...
At least where you live, you can pick up Channel 95.5 and 97.9 WJBR,,, I know that on paper technically hot 102.7 is a CHR Rhythmic,, and 97.9 is Urban. and 95.5 is supposed to be CHR Mainstream,,,,,,,,,But to my ears,,, they are all 3 hip hop stations.....
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