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What will Jack do Now?

Re: OMG 3

> > > And this differs from any other format change how?
> >
> > Not a bit- that's part of my point. This whole "suits are
>
> > killing jocks off by going Jack because Jack means no
> jocks"
> > conspiracy is laughable.
> >
>
> No, you're saying they're not adding jocks because of the
> costs associated with a format change. I'm saying that it's
> never been an issue with other format changes.

The real issue is that the format behaves best in an initial period, often over a year, without jocks. The format caplitalizes on backlash against jocks, talk, interruptions, etc.
>
> If your goal is to discredit the "JACK means no jocks"
> consipiracy, you need better ammo.

Jack means attitude. It caters to a specifc mindset and demographic.
>
> Frankly, I don't care. I don't own Infinty stock.

Nobody owns Infinity stock.
 
Re: OMG 3

> The real issue is that the format behaves best in an initial
> period, often over a year, without jocks.

That's a pretty bold statement for such a fledgling format. Maybe it does better on paper or in a sales pitch... but in real life? There is probably a more direct correlation between success and marketing budget. And do you really think they'll follow that playbook if KCBS continues to grow? Will they bring in personalities if WCBS shrinks?

> The format
> caplitalizes on backlash against jocks, talk, interruptions,
> etc. Jack means attitude. It caters to a specifc mindset and
> demographic.

Funny how that growth doesn't seem fall into that mindset/demographic. Isn't it more upper end of 25-54 (Baby Boomers) than the lower end (Gen-X)?

BTW - "Attitude" can't be taken. It has to be given. That is, I can say to my son "stop that attitude...", if he say's "Look at me, I have an attitude" he sounds like the tween he is.

> Frankly, I don't care. I don't own Infinty stock.
>
> Nobody owns Infinity stock.

Whoops. VIA A &/nor B
>
 
OMG 3

I am NOT saying that and have never said that- I'm saying radio stations are NOT going variety hits largely because they're saving money without jocks at the outset.

Geez. Willya please r-e-a-d all the actual WORDS instead of reading into things what you want.
 
Jack/Jocks

when the get to the point in their development when they believe they'll need them-- and the WILL need them. Otherwise, as I've said countless times before, they'll be the "iPod on shuffle WITH commercials" and what is the point of that.


> WHEN? Some Jack stations have been on for well over a year
> and are still jockless. How long will it take before Jack
> gets jocks?
 
OMG 234

ain't just L.A., cat. Count 'em:

*LA
*Indy
*St Louis
*Nashville
*Phoenix
*Dallas
*Minneapolis
*Seattle
*Baltimore

Those are just the bigger markets, all with jack-type stations all on the way up.
>
> That's a pretty bold statement for such a fledgling format.
> Maybe it does better on paper or in a sales pitch... but in
> real life? There is probably a more direct correlation
> between success and marketing budget. And do you really
> think they'll follow that playbook if KCBS continues to
> grow? Will they bring in personalities if WCBS shrinks?
 
Re: OMG 3

> > The real issue is that the format behaves best in an
> initial
> > period, often over a year, without jocks.
>
> That's a pretty bold statement for such a fledgling format.

The format is about 3 years old.

> Maybe it does better on paper or in a sales pitch... but in
> real life?

The original Jacks have added talent in most cases, especially alrger markets.

> There is probably a more direct correlation
> between success and marketing budget. And do you really
> think they'll follow that playbook if KCBS continues to
> grow? Will they bring in personalities if WCBS shrinks?

They will follow the research, and when they see incrasing indicators on burn of the jockless, anti-pukers attitude, they will ad jocks before they get dinged.
>
> > The format
> > caplitalizes on backlash against jocks, talk,
> interruptions,
> > etc. Jack means attitude. It caters to a specifc mindset
> and
> > demographic.
>
> Funny how that growth doesn't seem fall into that
> mindset/demographic. Isn't it more upper end of 25-54 (Baby
> Boomers) than the lower end (Gen-X)?

25-44 is the big LA demo. It has hurt alternative stations like Indie and KROQ, hard leaning AC's like Star, and even classic rockers like KLOS. It is a coalition format.
>
> BTW - "Attitude" can't be taken. It has to be given. That
> is, I can say to my son "stop that attitude...", if he say's
> "Look at me, I have an attitude" he sounds like the tween he
> is.

We all have and project attitudes. You are using attitude in the contemporary subdefinition of meaning a bad attitude or stuck up one; I mean that the stations has character.
>
> > Frankly, I don't care. I don't own Infinty stock.
> >
> > Nobody owns Infinity stock.
>
> Whoops. VIA A &/nor B

Yup. Of course, I still think NBC is owned by RCA.
 
Re: OMG 3

> The original Jacks have added talent in most cases,
> especially alrger markets.

Added, or retained? Didn't quite a few of the JACK-a-likes (MIKE, NINE, BEN, PEAK, ARCH etc.) either retain or replace their airstaff from almost the get-go? Denver went what, six months I think. Dallas is still jockless I believe.

I still maintain that any addition of personalities at KCBS at this point would be akin to a format change.



> Yup. Of course, I still think NBC is owned by RCA.

You mean they don't????? Well, at least Cap Cities will never spin off ABC. :)
 
Re: OMG 3

> I am NOT saying that and have never said that- I'm saying
> radio stations are NOT going variety hits largely because
> they're saving money without jocks at the outset.

You're obviously not a lawyer - that's one good thing I can say about you.

If you want to prove your point that "radio stations are NOT going variety hits largely because they're saving money without jocks at the outset" you simply have to provide better evidence than "In other words (read carefully), it's costing them a lot more money short-term to do these flips than sticking with the old formats". That's always been the case with any format change.

As long as one JACK station remains jockless, you won't be able to prove the conspiracy theorists wrong.

Honest to God, I'm trying to help you out here.
 
Jack & Jox

My point was that all the super-cynical and paranoids are portraying the JACK format as radio's magic answer for how to do radio cheaper and kill off jobs
and that is just simply not true (and the only 'evidence' I can provide is the common-sense mindset I've presented dozens of times before, including earlier in this thread).

I just think it's way too early in the Jack saga to know when they'll add jocks.
Many, many start-ups and flips go months without jocks- heck, years ago it was not unusual to go 6 months or more, then one-by-one begin introducing personalities. Also, please keep in mind these aren't rock or AC or country stations- it's a brand-new format concept and mindset that's going to take awhile to be fully developed.

There's an expression that goes something like, "the longer you take, the longer it lasts" and when doing a start-up, you want that "new" glow to last as long as possible.

My bet is the audience will determine when they start to add personalities (and not pissed-off radio people on web boards).


>
> As long as one JACK station remains jockless, you won't be
> able to prove the conspiracy theorists wrong.
>
> Honest to God, I'm trying to help you out here.
>
 
Re: OMG 3

> > The original Jacks have added talent in most cases,
> > especially alrger markets.
>
> Added, or retained?

I'm talking about the Canadian "originals" which are demonstrating the evolution of the format concept.

> Didn't quite a few of the JACK-a-likes
> (MIKE, NINE, BEN, PEAK, ARCH etc.) either retain or replace
> their airstaff from almost the get-go? Denver went what,
> six months I think. Dallas is still jockless I believe.
>
> I still maintain that any addition of personalities at KCBS
> at this point would be akin to a format change.
>
>
>
> > Yup. Of course, I still think NBC is owned by RCA.
>
> You mean they don't????? Well, at least Cap Cities will
> never spin off ABC. :)
>
 
Re: OMG

> In other words (read carefully), it's costing them a lot
> more money short-term to do these flips than sticking with
> the old formats.
>

If it is going to cost more money long termb to change formats, then why bother?

I'm thinking of a few examples in Philly. Research or is it just trendy? 95.7 in Philly, and of corse WNEW here in NYC. Three formats in three years, and finally they have got something. Do stations recoop costs and eventually make profets on formats, or does the format whiel change too often for this to happen.

I'm a radio geek too, and like my said format and think XYZ station should be yada yada yada, but know that won't happen. I'd like to understand how this all works. How do stations chose what format to switch too anyway?
And why so many changes for WNEW in so little of a time, after being an astablished rock outlet for many years?

They wwent from Hot Talk to Blink (What format was that anyway?) to Bright AC (Whatever that means...) to a Hot AC/Disko mix which they are now, but leaning heavier on the classic dance.

If the rock format worked for WNEW for so long, and WCBS was oldies for so long, then why the format change? Is the demmo too old according to advertisers of these two said stations?
In other words, why did it work for 30+ years, and all the sudden it doesn't work anymore?

John
<P ID="signature">______________
John
E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: RainAngelsRule
MSN: [email protected]</P>
 
long vs. short term

Read it again- it costs more SHORT-TERM, looking at long-term gain. Why is that so hard for so many to comprehend?
>
> If it is going to cost more money long termb to change
> formats, then why bother?
>
> I'm thinking of a few examples in Philly. Research or is it
> just trendy? 95.7 in Philly, and of corse WNEW here in NYC.
> Three formats in three years, and finally they have got
> something. Do stations recoop costs and eventually make
> profets on formats, or does the format whiel change too
> often for this to happen.
>
> I'm a radio geek too, and like my said format and think XYZ
> station should be yada yada yada, but know that won't
> happen. I'd like to understand how this all works. How do
> stations chose what format to switch too anyway?
> And why so many changes for WNEW in so little of a time,
> after being an astablished rock outlet for many years?
>
> They wwent from Hot Talk to Blink (What format was that
> anyway?) to Bright AC (Whatever that means...) to a Hot
> AC/Disko mix which they are now, but leaning heavier on the
> classic dance.
>
> If the rock format worked for WNEW for so long, and WCBS
> was oldies for so long, then why the format change? Is the
> demmo too old according to advertisers of these two said
> stations?
> In other words, why did it work for 30+ years, and all the
> sudden it doesn't work anymore?
>
> John
>
 
Re: OMG

> > In other words (read carefully), it's costing them a lot
> > more money short-term to do these flips than sticking with
>
> > the old formats.
> >
>
> If it is going to cost more money long termb to change
> formats, then why bother?
>
> I'm thinking of a few examples in Philly. Research or is it
> just trendy? 95.7 in Philly, and of corse WNEW here in NYC.
> Three formats in three years, and finally they have got
> something. Do stations recoop costs and eventually make
> profets on formats, or does the format whiel change too
> often for this to happen.
>
> I'm a radio geek too, and like my said format and think XYZ
> station should be yada yada yada, but know that won't
> happen. I'd like to understand how this all works. How do
> stations chose what format to switch too anyway?
> And why so many changes for WNEW in so little of a time,
> after being an astablished rock outlet for many years?
>
> They wwent from Hot Talk to Blink (What format was that
> anyway?) to Bright AC (Whatever that means...) to a Hot
> AC/Disko mix which they are now, but leaning heavier on the
> classic dance.
>
> If the rock format worked for WNEW for so long, and WCBS
> was oldies for so long, then why the format change? Is the
> demmo too old according to advertisers of these two said
> stations?
> In other words, why did it work for 30+ years, and all the
> sudden it doesn't work anymore?
>
> John
>

To answer some of your questions, the target demo for CBS FM and probably WNEW was growing older and older and add buyers aren't that interesting in anyone above the age of 55, which is a shame. Infinity wants to make MONEY and they will make more money with Jack. Not sure how much Mix is making, but I'm sure they are doing well.
<P ID="signature">______________
Check my website www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
 
> Now that the monthly Arbitrends have come out and CBS FM has
> gone down what will the suits at Infinity do now? Will they
> bring jocks to the station? Will they change the music or
> will they just ignore the whole thing till the first book is
> made public in October?

They will not do a thing for at least several more months...when was the last time you saw a broadcasting company admit it had made a mistake and respond to it quickly? Won't happen until Les Moonves (who's busy now rolling out the fall TV season at CBS) gets a look at Infinity's NYC cluster bottom line, sees wreckage, and raises hell. He will look at what the numbers for Jack will likely be by then, and order the whole thing blown up (and probably bring in a new management team to do it).

This will happen sometime in late fall or over the winter, assuming the aftermath from Stern's departure doesn't cause an even bigger meltdown and an even bigger distraction. If they don't have a post-Stern strategy in place on 1/1/06 (and it looks like they may not), they will have a major multi-city fire to put out which will keep them from addressing CBS-FM's troubles until next spring. By that time, things will have really hit bottom for the whole NYC cluster with three wounded FMs struggling to avoid the bottom all at once. God knows what they'll do if that happens. Given the company's prejudice against oldies, hot talk and country, and the overcrowded field for AC, CHR, urban and rock, what CAN they do with any of those stations, except maybe sell them?

All this was avoidable, of course. They made a horrible blunder with 101.1 that now looks like it'll have ripple effects across the cluster. It will magnify the pain that the other struggling stations are already inflicting on the company, by denying Infinity that one reliable source of strong positive cash flow they could once count on, and could have continued to count on for another 8 to 10 years if they'd just fine tuned it.
 
Re: long vs. short term

> Read it again- it costs more SHORT-TERM, looking at
> long-term gain. Why is that so hard for so many to
> comprehend?

Because when you do it badly and embrace a faulty flavor-of-the-month format, what you end up with is a station that's been rejected by the market and a need to blow it up and start the process over again within a short time. You now have a seriously damaged station. How much do you think that will cost to repair?
 
Re: OMG 3

> Radio hacks are out there hating jack for 2 reasons:
>
> * they don't get it (because it doesn't fall into their
> little box of what radio is supposed to be to them)

No, it's not doing well and not holding audiences (read the Arbitron/Edison and Bridge studies) because it isn't working as a format in most of the markets where it's being tried...listeners in its target range don't like it much, and that's the most important measure of any format.

> * it's replaced a couple of popular oldies stations (NYC,
> Baltimore, Indy)

And therein lies the problem...it is replacing POPULAR stations with something that just doesn't work. Jack is one of those formats that works best when it marries the new concept (a broad eclectic music mix of past hits) with time-honored ideas (personality, value-added information and entertainment content).
When you do it on the cheap you've just created someone's overstuffed iPod wired to a transmitter. They just don't get it. The success of a radio station lies in its ability to offer something unique so that people will put up with commercial interruptions, and allow themselves to be exposed to advertisers' messages, in order to hear the station and spend time with it. If all you are is an iPod with commercials, why should I choose you rather than my own iPod which has music I picked and doesn't make me listen to any commercials at all?
 
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