What will radio do for people with two left feet?

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I hope our friend BigA will not be offended that I pulled part of a post out of the San Francisco Forum to begin this topic:

As for localism, it's once again a function of format and daypart. Syndication hasn't hurt AM talk, and it hasn't hurt public radio. To have a local DJ in San Francisco saying "that was" and "this is,"
is silly, and the audience knows it. So formats where a local personality can add something remain mostly unchanged. But live personality on music radio simply isn't the draw it used to be.

You have expressed what I accept as part of the current management of top-rated, large-market stations in particular. I also understand the top-rated, large-market stations sell into a market and into an advertising market-place that gives great value to the youthfulness of the audience.

Some of us slightly more seasoned citizens do not go out "clubbing" a couple of nights per week. Some of us grew up in rural areas, particularly in the South where "dain-sin" was not socially acceptable. We were NEVER up to date even back then on all the music. In a household where both adults work outside the home for income, in a household where people devote a certain amount of time to community service, playing golf and managing the local PTA.... I have a question!

• If it has become a mortal sin for any radio announcer to ever announce anything about the song, the artist, etc, where are we left over squares supposed to learn who the artist is, and what the name of the song is?
  
  

We could solve the rumors about the new Healthcare Law and the rumored "death panels". We should have a national policy that all adults upon reaching age 42 are taken out and executed. Makes things easier to the healthcare industry. Makes things a lot clearer for radio station programming.

Yes, of course. I am being absolutely ridiculous and silly.

Where are we, the square pegs in our society supposed to go to keep up with what is hip in the current culture if we don't have disc jockeys to play the role Kasey Kasim and others used to do for us when we were younger?

 

[TheBigA]

Where are we, the square pegs in our society supposed to go to keep up with what is hip in the current culture if we don't have disc jockeys to play the role Kasey Kasim and others used to do for us when we were younger?

That might be a better question for someone in the demo. I speak with high school and college kids all the time, somehow, they know. Jay Leno's Jay-Walking bit asks people if they know who the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is, and no one seems to know. But they all know who's sleeping with who and who sings what song. There's no shortage of information available about songs and artists. My car radio prints the name of the song and artist right on the dial. That's one way. There are search engines that handle this kind of stuff. I go to YouTube with a few bits of information, type it in, and presto: I get the song.

What's really sad is when I speak with DJs and they know less about the music they play than their listeners. Partly because they're too old, and partly because they don't care. That's a problem. What made DJs so useful in the old days wasn't the information they gave, but the fact that they were part of the social life group. That's what seems to have changed to me. I remember Casey Kasem having trouble pronouncing the names of some rap artists in the Top 40. That was the begining of the end, for me.

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Being a parent of a 14-going-on-25 year old, I can tell you exactly where the kids find what's hip.

The Internet.

Radio is something that plays in the car on the way to school, and nothing more. That doesn't mean that kids don't listen to radio, but it's nothing more than background noise now.

As for the jocks not knowing much about the music, a lot of that is probably because the poor sap is also tacking for 4 other stations. He probably knows something about one of the formats. It's just a sign of the times, unfortunately.

 

[Roger That]

• If it has become a mortal sin for any radio announcer to ever announce anything about the song, the artist, etc, where are we left over squares supposed to learn who the artist is, and what the name of the song is?
  
  

I think you missed his point. It's not a mortal sin for a jock to talk about the music playing. It just doesn't make sense to be paying a full time "personality" to sit in a studio and offer nothing more than that to their audience. If that's all they're capable of doing, you might as well VT and save the money. Being "live and local" and offering little more than that is simply not a winning strategy.

It IS important for the jock to talk about the music, because a large part of the audience still uses radio to find new music. You'll never get scolded by your audience for saying the name of the artist or song, but you WILL if you don't and that what they were expecting.

But more to his point: Should there be local personalities? Absolutely, but not if they offer so little. Radio has an opportunity to create REAL personalities to cut through the laziness of most programmers. But don't confuse local for necessary. Just having a warm body in the studio does you nothing. Whether local or syndicated, the jock has to compel the audience. And the part that most people don't get is that the audience doesn't care about where the jock is from. They care about where they're going, and if they can be taken for the ride with them. No one cared that Stern wasn't in their city. They cared that when talked, it was worth listening to.

How many "personalities" in radio can you say that about now?

 

[TheBigA]

Radio has an opportunity to create REAL personalities to cut through the laziness of most programmers.

Radio doesn't create personalities. The personalities create personality. If they have none to begin with, and most don't, radio isn't going to help. In my view, the best on-air personalities are the ones who have the experience of standing on a stage in front of a live audience in a club and selling themselves. If you can communicate directly with people, and keep them from walking out, you have a chance. I don't know many jocks who can do that.

A DJ on the radio has to know something the audience doesn't. Knowing the title or artist isn't what I'm talking about. They need to have credibility. They need to be living the life style. Most DJs simply aren't in the life group of their audience. When we talk about "serving your community," we're not talking simply geography. The community can be a social community. That's what it meant in the 60s. People believed that Murray the K was one of them. He had access to The Beatles. He lived the life. He was in the community. Not a faceless voice. I'm talking about Radio 101. You don't learn this in college. Murray The K and the great legends of the airwaves didn't go to college to learn radio. They were performers.

This is why most listeners consider DJs to be clutter and interruptions. The DJ often doesn't add anything to the experience, because the DJ himself doesn't have anything to say. So don't say anything. The audience understands the music better than the DJ. The audience is living the life. Most of these fans are more committed to the music than the DJs. They travel from city to city, they chat among themselves on fan pages, they have formed a community, and the DJ isn't part of it. That's why most DJs are irrelevent.

Where does the radio community meet? You're looking at it. If we meet on the internet, why do radio station not have more developed web presences? Some do, and those that do are succeeding. You don't need radio to connect with your audience. They're using social media to connect with each other. Effective radio stations place themselves in the middle of this community. They have active Twitter and Facebook pages, where they do their contesting and communication. They don't do it on the air signal, because they can't speak directly and personally there as well as through social media. This isn't about owners, it's not about managers, it's not about programmers, but it's about the DJs themselves becoming part of their community and part of the discussion. That's what listeners want.

 

[bturner]

Radio must have communicators with the ability to relate to the listener, creating an emotional bond, placing themselves in the listener's shoes and be liked by the listener.

You don't have to be funny or say so many words but if you can talk about things that happen in the listener's life, have a style that is friendly and share something of interest to your listeners, that is a valuable air talent.

Being behind the microphone for so many years being told things like "your personality is the way you get acrodss the information on this 3 by 5 card" and being told if you go over 10 seconds the hotline will be ringing have cowed down air talent to the point they likely believe they are a worthless used to be necessity.

Radio listeners prefer to hear people they feel like they know and relate to them on their level. If you can add some interesting content (water cooler talk) that a listener can share (making them appear smart, gaining them attention or the feeling they might know a bit more than the average person).

 

[TheBigA]

Radio must have communicators with the ability to relate to the listener, creating an emotional bond, placing themselves in the listener's shoes and be liked by the listener.

They don't exist. Very few people have the street cred with the people where the listeners will trust them. That's what's wrong with radio.

The place to do build street cred is in social media. Radio needs to own social media. You can reach out and touch listeners on a one to one basis, but you need to WANT to do it, and you need to ENJOY it. Otherwise, it will kill you. Because fans know when the DJ doesn't care, and when someone other than the DJ is doing the social media. So don't fool them.

Recording artists are going direct to their fan bases through Twitter and Facebook. Radio needs to LEARN from these artists, watch what they do, and do it. If radio doesn't use the tools available, they're nuts.

 

[Roger That]

Radio has an opportunity to create REAL personalities to cut through the laziness of most programmers.

Radio doesn't create personalities. The personalities create personality. If they have none to begin with, and most don't, radio isn't going to help.

Not sure why you took that one line so out of context. We are saying the same thing. Radio, and particularly the people who are running it right now, doesn't create anything. I'm simply saying that, as an industry, there's an opportunity right now that someone IN radio needs to capitalize on. They need to find those personalities.

If you read everything I wrote, you'll see we're on the same side. My intention was actually to defend your point.

 

[landtuna]

I've read this topic with a great deal of interest but think a lot of it is over-thought.

Assuming the listening public hasn't changed all that much over the years (and we're talking about pop music radio here, right?) I really doubt listeners care if their DJ of choice "lives the brand" or not. Most people listen because the DJ entertains them, not because they are looking for life style validation or participation. Most listeners are what we would call common folk but most on-air talent are not. They tend to be outgoing, expressive, boisterous, flaky and some are medically/mentally over the top. I doubt most listeners want to emulate the jocks but they do want to be entertained - either by the music or the personality.

 

[TheBigA]

I've read this topic with a great deal of interest but think a lot of it is over-thought.

Assuming the listening public hasn't changed all that much over the years (and we're talking about pop music radio here, right?) I really doubt listeners care if their DJ of choice "lives the brand" or not.

Then you're wrong. You haven't seen the incredible sociological revolution that took place ten years ago. You need credibility. Any dope can get a radio show. It happens every day. It takes someone special to communicate. And the key to it is living the brand. Otherwise, the listeners don't care how funny you think you are. They have lots of choices. Everyone thinks their funny. You need to find a way to stand out.

I don't know if you've ever launched a radio station or a morning show from scratch. To go from zero audience to a solid fan base. You don't win them over with talent. You don't win them over with entertainment. You win them over by going out and winning each individual listener over one by one. Shake their hands. Answer their emails. Hang with them in the parking lot after a concert. That's not on the air. You win over the audience in all the things you do OFF the air. It;s like politics. They say politics is retail. So is radio. One by one. They need to see you and smell you. Once they know you, THEN you hit them with entertainment. But until they let you into their house, you're just more spam in their inbox.

 

[bturner]

The Big A - two points...you last paragraph on your most recent post is very accurate but not the only method.

In an earlier post you said what I described as air talent did not exist. I beg to differ. Love him or hate him, Rush Limbaugh is a fine example. His listeners tune to him because they like him and he offers them information that makes them feel important or relates to their views. Virtually all of the talk radio hosts fit this model.

Everybody says the air talent that establishes an emotional bond is an old time philosophy with no place in today's radio. My question is, if that is true, what part of basic human emotions and feelings is no longer a part of humanity? Everybody needs to feel like they belong and everyone establishes relationships in the workplace and the neighborhood and gives this a certain value. It is subscribing to these basic human emotions and needs that I am saying most radio is missing. Most music stations have tossed this concept out the door. I believe this is why most music stations seem so unimportant to many. Outside quite a few morning shows, music radio has eliminated the idea of bonding with the listener. I say that and still see PDs going to some extremes to put a face on the 'target listener'. One station sees their target as a 35 year old female soccer mom. Even so, I cannot hear anything amid DJ patter that relates to this target on that station.

Just observations and opinion from the #6 market.

 

[TheBigA]

Love him or hate him, Rush Limbaugh is a fine example. His listeners tune to him because they like him and he offers them information that makes them feel important or relates to their views.

I agree. But he's syndicated, and he's towards the end of his career. What's going to happen when he retires? Poof! Vacuum.

Everybody says the air talent that establishes an emotional bond is an old time philosophy with no place in today's radio. My question is, if that is true, what part of basic human emotions and feelings is no longer a part of humanity?

I agree with that too. However, radio has been replaced by social media as a more direct line to people. Why? Because it's interactive. That back & forth is CRITICAL to reaching feelings and emotions. Why do people divorce? Usually because the interaction stops. It's all one way. One way communication feels great until all of a sudden you meet someone who gets what you're saying, gives it back, and you interact. Ahem, in more ways than one. Know what I mean? From that point on, one-way communication simply doesn't cut it any more.

That's why I say radio people MUST use social media to establish that one on one communication with their listeners. Once the listeners let you into their house, you are their friend. Don't abuse that relationship. But use it to build your community. Then SERVE your community.

 

[bturner]

The Big A - We are on the same page. The internet has enabled the air talent to become a person and a part of a listener's life on a one-on-one basis. It is indeed a requirement for success.

My gosh, back in the 80s, you'd do this over the phone. There was a high school girl that used to call here and there to request songs. At a remote I got to meet her as she was in the high school band that was performing at the event. Her family moved to California just before her senior year in high school. She wrote me a letter after the move (which I answered) and when Homecoming came around, she called to ask if I'd wish good luck to the team. I called her the band member now performing in California. Several calls followed to ask the name of the former high school band member and one caller said they'd mention her over the PA system when they called the game...don't know if that happened. It was that personal connection and information she provided that aided me in making that personal connection with some of the audience. This was in a market of about 250,000, so not a very big market, but nothing beats one-on-one. Now the internet has changed all of that.

There were so many fun things we used to do. I hosted 'Jock For A Song' letting callers intro a song. Listeners voted and the winner got to go on the air with me for an hour Saturday night. It was a bit nerve-wracking but fun.

Part of my job at one station was to attend the play by the local college drama department. I'd ask listeners to give me a review. Typically, with lots of splices and wasted tape, would piece together a review with a comment from many listeners. At the end I would add my comments and thank the listeners by name for assistance in the review.

As you can see, I was not the shock jock, comic or especially entertaining, but I always tried to make the listener a part of the air shift (when allowed to) and give the impression they directed what I did. I can't say it earned me the big bucks but I enjoyed it and I think my audience did as well. The thing that makes me think I might have done well was the number of callers in a college town I worked asking if I was the same guy that was on that station in Eagle Pass. I figured I had to have connected if they remembered me. At some places they wouldn't remember you next week.

I agree that the one-on-one contact is a sacred trust made with the listener, never to be abused and always cherished.

While Rush is syndicated and likely has few years remaining is true, I was using his simply as an example of what I was speaking of. There are so many more names I could use who are also synidicated. I contend their success is tied to establishing an emotional bond, but if done locally, the listenership would permit much more one-on-one contact to cement a loyal listener to the station you're on.

 

[landtuna]

You win them over by going out and winning each individual listener over one by one. Shake their hands. Answer their emails. Hang with them in the parking lot after a concert. That's not on the air. You win over the audience in all the things you do OFF the air. It;s like politics. They say politics is retail. So is radio. One by one. They need to see you and smell you.

Only a very, very small fraction of listeners participate in radio at this level. Most just listen. Some dial in for contests. A few more may read the station web page. But most just listen. The image, and any "feelings" they may have for their radio personalities, exist only on the radio and in their minds.

I will agree that some genre's are more participatory than others and that Country, for instance, requires the personalities to get out in person and live the life style - just as it requires a hat and big belt buckle on performers. Others, not so much. And the older the audience, the less important that whole lifestyle thingy is.

There are some very popular morning show personalities in my market that virtually never make personal appearances (outside some holiday charity work) and they remain popular year after year (or maybe I should say decade after decade).

I think your opinion is valid for the younger-age formats but once people hit their late teens and early 20's there are much more important things to be concerned with than the voice behind the mic.

 

[TheBigA]

I think your opinion is valid for the younger-age formats but once people hit their late teens and early 20's there are much more important things to be concerned with than the voice behind the mic.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. I read a lot of criticism that radio is losing this audience. I blame the lack of DJs in the demo as a big part of the problem.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Only a very, very small fraction of listeners participate in radio at this level. Most just listen. Some dial in for contests. A few more may read the station web page. But most just listen. The image, and any "feelings" they may have for their radio personalities, exist only on the radio and in their minds.

Here is a viewpoint that I cannot prove or disprove. It's just my observation and opinion.

For a person on the radio to have interaction with a least a few people, gives the radio person a sense of comfort and connection, and when he/she makes mention that "last night after the concert I was talking with Hope Bumbalow from out of Pools Mill about their Pig Roping contest this Saturday and I am really disappointed that I am committed to a family outing over in Alabama and can't be at Pooles Mill. Sounds like a great event.".... it may be boring to some listeners, but to others it reassures them they are indeed listening to a human being who is or wants to be warm and fuzzy. That can be one element in what we call personality. Even if the show is voice-tracked, drop ins of that nature are very appealing to some listeners.

 

[TheBigA]

Even if the show is voice-tracked, drop ins of that nature are very appealing to some listeners.

That gets back to my basic point. If the DJ isn't going to make the effort of physically meeting and interacting with the public, then who cares if the show is voice-tracked, syndicated, or jockless at all? I think a lot of talent has hurt their own value to employers by shielding themselves from the public.

 

[GeneSavage]

When all you hear when you meet the public is, "why do you play the same songs over and over?," "why don't you talk more, make jokes like you used to?," and "who's that awful night jock... he doesn't even sound like he's in town!" it's easy to give up on your owners and "leave work at work."

In some cases, owners may not want you representing the station except at official functions using officially approved words and actions. Lawyers may insist on it.

Back in 1991, I actually had an owner who told me I had to either shave my mustache, or I couldn't tell ANYONE where I worked. No joke... I couldn't make that kind of excrement up!

When every idea you have is shot down either by your PD or by corporate above him... it's hard to get excited about going out and doing the meet and greet thing... unless the station is paying you a talent feed to do so.

I just don't see it as cut and dry as you're describing...