What would you do if you bought WBAI

[Ai4i]

What does it taste like?

How will HD radio ever catch on when even radio enthusiasts on this board are using receivers that do not tune below 92.3?
WBGO has "The Jazz Bee"
WFUV has "The Alternate Side" (also part time on WNYE)
WKCR has a classical station from Mercer college.
BTW...Q2 is a unique format of living composers but (probably) no film scores, and their signal probably covers all of Central Park. Actually, if Q2 were at 10%, that would be like a full "B" at 1%..

 

[AlNYRadio]

BTW...Q2 is a unique format of living composers but (probably) no film scores, and their signal probably covers all of Central Park. Actually, if Q2 were at 10%, that would be like a full "B" at 1%..

Well I get WQXR easily on my portable HD radios and my home ones easily as well in southern Brooklyn.

 

[luperm]

There's also CBS Sports Net on WCBS-FM HD3

 

[MarcB]

My opinion:

WNYC buys 99.5 WBAI from Pacifica. While NYC loses their Pacifica outlet Pacifica can use the influx of cash for their Washington DC outlet, which is in as much trouble financially as WBAI is currently. WNYC moves WQXR to 99.5 and moves the Q2 format to 105.9 and 105.9 HD1.

 

[uncamark]

As for people actually buying HD radios, the problem with that is: They'd have to actually find some first. None of the big-box retailers sell them, and for a very good reason: They didn't move when they were on the shelves.

That's not really true. I was in Kmart a couple weeks ago and they sell an Audiovox portable HD radio. It looked exactly the same as the Insignia model that is sold at Best Buy. Best Buy actually sells 3 different models of HD radios, just do a search on their website. Whether or not people are buying them, who knows.

I know, and they're not.

There needs to be compelling programming on HD subchannels in order for there to be demand for HD radio.
Let's see what's available on HD
92.3 - Alternative (yeah, alternative fans would buy HD radios for K-Rock, if they knew it existed)
93.1 - not in HD
93.9 - WQXR
94.7 - no HD2
95.5 - True Oldies (same format as WCBS-FM)
96.3 - not in HD
97.1 - Indian music (the Indians would buy HD radios if they knew Hum Desi existed)
97.9 - more Spanish music
98.7 - ESPN subchannels
99.5 - not in HD (although my proposed HD subchannels would not duplicate anything else in NYC)
100.3 - CHR (almost the same as the HD1, yawn)
101.1 - WCBS-AM
101.9 - not in HD
102.7 - Last.FM, WINS
103.5 - Pride Radio (wish they'd change it to Evolution or Club Phusion to convince straight EDM fans to buy HD radios)
104.3 - alternative (similar to 92.3's format)
105.1 - no HD2 (leasing it was a failure)
105.9 - Q2 (more classical music, but can anyone hear it with the weaker signal)
106.7 - country (whatever listeners it had, they moved to Nash FM)
107.5 - no HD2

So unless you like alternative rock, are Indian, or like gay-flavored dance music, (or you're a DXer) there really isn't a compelling reason to buy an HD radio.

To hardcore classical fans, Q2 is an option because it plays the sort of contemporary classical music that most classical stations, even the non-com ones, don't play in favor of the 500 certified masterpieces that most people want to hear. Yes, even classical music radio has the 500-song playlist.

 

[HHH]

My opinion:

WNYC buys 99.5 WBAI from Pacifica. While NYC loses their Pacifica outlet Pacifica can use the influx of cash for their Washington DC outlet, which is in as much trouble financially as WBAI is currently. WNYC moves WQXR to 99.5 and moves the Q2 format to 105.9 and 105.9 HD1.

Q2 is much too niche for a terrestrial frequency. Better that WNYC swap 105.9 + cash to WBAI for 99.5.

Put WQXR on 99.5 and let WBAI have 105.9. WBAI can still be from the Empire, but will have a king sized bundle of cash.

 

[hubcity]

I'd try to do what anyone with the money will try to do: try to make more money.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

My opinion:

WNYC buys 99.5 WBAI from Pacifica. While NYC loses their Pacifica outlet Pacifica can use the influx of cash for their Washington DC outlet, which is in as much trouble financially as WBAI is currently. WNYC moves WQXR to 99.5 and moves the Q2 format to 105.9 and 105.9 HD1.

Q2 is much too niche for a terrestrial frequency. Better that WNYC swap 105.9 + cash to WBAI for 99.5.

Put WQXR on 99.5 and let WBAI have 105.9. WBAI can still be from the Empire, but will have a king sized bundle of cash.

This appears to make the most sense, given the ideology, drama and politics associated with WBAI.

 

[412Color]

I would make it a Old School Hip-Hop & R&b Station. NYC is the mecca of hip-hop but there is still no station that caters to the 25-54 crowd. Hot 97 and Power 105's ratings are tanking because we are tired of the same bs negative music. 90s and 80s hip hop had meaning. I know KDAY in L.A was sold but they had listeners and plus theyre signal didnt cover all of L.A. and plus NY and LA are too different demo markets..I just hope hot 97 put more throwbacks in there playlist even tho i dont support radio. But check out that movie Corporate FM. Im still trying to find when they will have a screening in NY. Follow me @412Color on twitter. peace.
P.s. if i miss spelled some words. sorry

 

[Giacomo Siffredi]

Put WQXR on 99.5 and let WBAI have 105.9. WBAI can still be from the Empire, but will have a king sized bundle of cash.

Everyone here whose speculation involves WQXR somehow acquiring the 99.5FM class B license should try to remember the reason why WQXR is now on the class B1 FM that is 105.9FM.

Similar in coverage area to the "B" FMs transmitting from the Empire State Building, the B1 license, at only 610 watts, covers nearly the entire relevant population that the station's former frequency, 96.3FM, and the other Manhattan "B"s serve. However, the minimal reduction of coverage area and substantially lesser wattage are appropriately factored into the monetary value of the license. It was this reduced expense and overhead that helped to close the three-way deal that preserved WQXR and it's classical music format in the New York City market.

With WQXR now owned by New York Public Radio (WNYC), which relies on private and public donations and funding, the expense of upgrading to a full "B" license is probably not a financially logical option, especially considering that their present 105.9FM "B1" signal does quite well covering the relevant population areas, especially Manhattan and its Upper East Side neighborhood.

Essentially, the station would lose whatever profit was realized by not originally acquiring a "B" back in 2009, and they would have to pound the pavement harder to recoup the difference.

 

[davideduardo]

Similar in coverage area to the "B" FMs transmitting from the Empire State Building, the B1 license, at only 610 watts, covers nearly the entire relevant population that the station's former frequency, 96.3FM, and the other Manhattan "B"s serve. However, the minimal reduction of coverage area and substantially lesser wattage are appropriately factored into the monetary value of the license. It was this reduced expense and overhead that helped to close the three-way deal that preserved WQXR and it's classical music format in the New York City market.

The "relevant coverage" for any station in New York City is reaching as much of the MSA as possible. 105.9 does not reach much of the market, and is severely hindered in even penetrating apartments and buildings on Manhattan.

A 600 watt signal is not a "minimal reduction" from the 6 kw range of the full B's at the same site... it represents well less than half of the coverage of the other stations.

A public broadcaster is dependent on funding... with the WQXR funding coming predominantly from listener contributions. Smaller coverage results in smaller potential donors.

Many people thought that 105.9 was good enough to coverer the market's Hispanic population... something that was proven to be untrue for the same low power non-penetrating signal that was too weak to be used by most listeners.

 

[davideduardo]

Hot 97 and Power 105's ratings are tanking because we are tired of the same bs negative music.

Hot and Power are 4th and 6th in 18-34, and both have been averaging in the same range for the last 10 to 12 books. Neither is "tanking" in their core demo. Both have significant sales.

Both stations are off a small amount in 18-49, and the general analysis is that this is due to a stronger WBLS performance in the 35+ demos.

 

[MCNDRWS]

What would you do if you bought WBAI?

Have It Steam Cleaned.

 

[Giacomo Siffredi]

Hey David,

The "relevant coverage" for any station in New York City is reaching as much of the MSA as possible. 105.9 does not reach much of the market, and is severely hindered in even penetrating apartments and buildings on Manhattan.

Understood. But I wasn't referring to "relevant coverage", I said "relevant population".

I'll be more specific with this example: WNSH Newark is doing respectably well overall with PPMs breaking the 2.0, according to the June 2013 12+ ratings for New York City/Market #1. During that same rating period, WNSH garnered a 3.3 in Middlesex-Somerset-Union (NJ/Market #41). Ratings for WQXR, by the way, get all but squashed in M-S-U.

One of the arguments that Country music format proponents made during that whole format debate once Cumulus closed on 94.7FM Newark was that the transmitting antenna situated in West Orange, NJ., approximately ten miles west of Manhattan, would provide more coverage to New Jersey inland and counties whose populations were more receptive to Country music. The recent ratings of WNSH in M-S-U seem to be corroborating this earlier speculation.

The Classical music format on WQXR generally appeals to an affluent and mature audience which generally resides in affluent bedroom communities in NE New Jersey, Westchester County in New York, and in urban Manhattan, specifically the Upper East Side. It was from these geographic areas that the largest outcries came when the future of WQXR and classical music on the free terrestrial airwaves was uncertain.

You're correct that the 105.9FM signal is lacking, but it's limited coverage area technically serves this smaller but densely populated region in which the target audience for Classical music generally resides. That is what I meant by "relevant population"

And FWIW, I have not experienced any trouble receiving WQXR on 105.9FM in the Bergen County, NJ area, whether it be stationary or mobile listening.

A public broadcaster is dependent on funding... with the WQXR funding coming predominantly from listener contributions. Smaller coverage results in smaller potential donors.

Many people thought that 105.9 was good enough to cover the market's Hispanic population... something that was proven to be untrue for the same low power non-penetrating signal that was too weak to be used by most listeners.

Obviously the full B's, for the most part, mitigate the reception issues hindering 105.9FM. But if the bulk of the target audience is being served by the B1, their contributions will likely continue, given a favorable economy. Perhaps they may even be more inclined to contribute if they hope that someday a better signal may be realized once again.

The full "B"s certainly ease the reception difficulties and expand the coverage area. But if the coverage area is expanded to locations generally bereft of Classical music fans, the added population will essentially realize no monetary gains from those locations.

After Univision acquired 96.3FM, the ratings proved that the dial position at 105.9FM was a hindrance. But the target audience for X96.3 is not as closely isolated as the target audience for WQXR. One could even argue that, given the demographics and relegation to being programmed almost exclusively by public broadcasters, the Classical music format is becoming more of a niche format.

 

[davideduardo]

Understood. But I wasn't referring to "relevant coverage", I said "relevant population".

The average B on the ESB puts a 65 dbu signal over about 6 million more people than 105.9 does. And considering that it reaches the outer ring of the metro, that's where a significant percentage of the classical listeners are.

A ZIP Code analysis of the 96.3 WQXR ratings in pre-PPM days shows this to be an overwhelming fact... averaging several 2007-2008 books shows that 60% of the AQH and about the same amount of cume came from outside NYC and the boroughs.

The Classical music format on WQXR generally appeals to an affluent and mature audience which generally resides in affluent bedroom communities in NE New Jersey, Westchester County in New York, and in urban Manhattan, specifically the Upper East Side.

Yet only 40% of the listening to 96.3 was from the City and the boroughs. 105.9 from experience is not a useful signal, save a small swatch of NY right across from midtown.

"Useful" means the average listener can listen to it... not just "hear" it. There is a big difference.

Actual listeners, not conjecture, make up the definition of signal relevance.

You're correct that the 105.9FM signal is lacking, but it's limited coverage area technically serves this smaller but densely populated region in which the target audience for Classical music generally resides.

You are victim of a stereotype that the only "cultured" people live within spitting distance of Central Park South..

And FWIW, I have not experienced any trouble receiving WQXR on 105.9FM in the Bergen County, NJ area, whether it be stationary or mobile listening.

But the other 99.99% of the population apparently does.

The full "B"s certainly ease the reception difficulties and expand the coverage area. But if the coverage area is expanded to locations generally bereft of Classical music fans, the added population will essentially realize no monetary gains from those locations.

But we can already see that the uncovered or deficiently covered areas are where the majority of the fans of WQXR on 96.3 were.

After Univision acquired 96.3FM, the ratings proved that the dial position at 105.9FM was a hindrance.

Univision knew from back in 1999 that the 105.9 facility was inadequate. They realized that projections based on a 60 dbu signal were unrealistic in a market with a huge percentage of the population living in apartments that the base 600 watts could just not penetrate... sometimes even in direct line of sight with the ESB.

I can tell many stories of having to put my very high end Sony portable right next to a hotel room window in midtown to listen to the former WCAA... because deeper inside the room it would not come in. And every staff member had similar anecdotal experiences.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

Univision knew from back in 1999 that the 105.9 facility was inadequate. They realized that projections based on a 60 dbu signal were unrealistic in a market with a huge percentage of the population living in apartments that the base 600 watts could just not penetrate... sometimes even in direct line of sight with the ESB.

I can tell many stories of having to put my very high end Sony portable right next to a hotel room window in midtown to listen to the former WCAA... because deeper inside the room it would not come in. And every staff member had similar anecdotal experiences.

Here are some Longley-Rice maps (using Doug Lung's original Perl code modified for FM) covering a variety of markets of interest to me and some colleagues. At the top of the list are WQXR and WXNY for the New York market.

The difference in the darker green coverage between 96.3 and 105.9 is notable.

http://www.onairusa.com/fm/

 

[Ai4i]

Classical music stations need stronger signals to be enjoyed than popular music stations.
In Miami, we have two rimshots with very similar signals (compare this with that) but widely different formats.
The former is an aggressively processed pop station and sounds pretty good within a large area of multipath.
The later is classical and I can not tolerate the noise, even in mono.

Rather than trying to figure where the classical listeners are, someone please answer this:
How strongly have the overall ratings for WQXR been impacted by the change?

 

[davideduardo]

Here are some Longley-Rice maps (using Doug Lung's original Perl code modified for FM) covering a variety of markets of interest to me and some colleagues. At the top of the list are WQXR and WXNY for the New York market.

The difference in the darker green coverage between 96.3 and 105.9 is notable.

http://www.onairusa.com/fm/

Thank you.

The maps from Chicago and Dallas also illustrate the differences between, respectively, a Hancock / Willis (Sears) site and an edge-of-market signal and a Cedar Hill vs. a rimshot signal.

 

[davideduardo]

How strongly have the overall ratings for WQXR been impacted by the change?

It is hard to equate the pre-sale diary ratings to the current PPM ones.

What I did was find the cume from 2008, the year before the sale. It averages 825,000 persons.

Then I took the current PPM data, and selected the cume for persons who listen 1 hour a week or more* (which tends to make PPM data comparable to diary data by excluding accidental listening) and the cume is 345,000.

So, on what I can defend as the best / only way to compare diary data with PPM data, the current 105.9 cume is somewhere around 40% of the 96.3 cume.

* Listening to a station less than an hour a week tended not to be recorded in the diary due to the "you have to remember it to write it down" aspect of the paper log methodology.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

The maps from Chicago and Dallas also illustrate the differences between, respectively, a Hancock / Willis (Sears) site and an edge-of-market signal and a Cedar Hill vs. a rimshot signal.

What struck me when comparing WQXR's 610 watt coverage vs. its former 6000 watt facility is how what's referred to as the East Egg and West Egg in the "Great Gatsby" no longer have a potent signal from the current 105.9 facility.

As I recall, a portion of what the old WNCN used to refer to as the "leadership community" in its media ads lived in or near Great Neck, Port Washington and Glen Cove. Bill Paley, among others, lived there.

http://magazine.elliman.com/personalities/glitter-gold

The L-R maps clearly show that former strong signal of 96.3, indicated by dark green, covered the Gold Coast of Long Island well. The lesser facility of nowadays has some areas out there where indoor reception on a tabletop radio would be a struggle.