What's 104.9 The River's Problem?

[MarketWatcher]

Morale is terrible for obvious reasons below. No one knows from day to day if they'll have a job next month.

They've fired more PD's, management and support staff than Clear Channel over the last few years.

I hear that they've demoted their 104.9 Columbus operations manager to "head of production" whatever that means. But he's still got the operations title for some reason. Some are saying that he's soon on the outs. They put some big wig from another town in his job with the title VP of operations.

They let go their 92.1 Zanesville station's PD after over a decade of faithful service. He he was faithful. He loved that place. He started out as a volunteer for WCVO years before and worked his way up the ladder. He had a heart and a passion for that place. They'll not find many more as faithful as him.

I hear they fired their 95.1 mid-ohio station manager for daring to have a slight difference of opinion on something last year.

And there are rumors that they're getting ready to blow out their promotions director. I wonder if he knows they've advertised for applicants for his job already.

Does anyone have any idea what their problem is? Sounds to me like they need to hire the right people in the FIRST PLACE and THEN retain them.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by MarketWatcher on 01/07/06 03:39 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[denningsjon_]

You have to remember that CVCO is a 501C3 organization and all 3 of its properties are listener supported.

Knowone know why jobs shift or why people are let go.. but before you start condemming what Dan Baughman has done with CVCO as a company, look at where it is today compared to 6 years ago...

I will admit, I used to work for CVCO and left on my own terms and now work at another CCM station out west. I can testify to the account that Dan Baughman is a man of his own words and he does everything with Faith, Prayer and from a business standpoint. WCVO and its sisters are all listener supported.. they dont make hundreds of thousands every month like Clear Channel.. this means they have limited resources. So, the smart thing to do if the money isnt there month after month is to eliminate unneeded jobs or employees that cant step up to the plate. Ask any business manager, they will agree.

Yea, Michael James was faithful to CVCO (its 92.7 not 92.1 and he was Assistant PD, not PD), however do you know why he was let go? Did he drop the ball way to many times? Did he violate a company policy? You cant condemn CVCO for letting go of a "faithful" employee without knowing the facts.. Faithful employees are let go everyday everywhere.

Im not saying Dan does no wrong, because he does. Hes not perfect.. but the Dan Baughman that I worked for at CVCO is a man that works by faith and Prayer. Seriously, hes one of the best company presidents that I have ever worked for.
He's just running a business like a business.




> Morale is terrible for obvious reasons below. No one knows
> from day to day if they'll have a job next month.
>
> They've fired more PD's, management and support staff than
> Clear Channel over the last few years.
>
> I hear that they've demoted their 104.9 Columbus operations
> manager to "head of production" whatever that means. But
> he's still got the operations title for some reason. Some
> are saying that he's soon on the outs. They put some big wig
> from another town in his job with the title VP of
> operations.
>
> They let go their 92.1 Zanesville station's PD after over a
> decade of faithful service. He he was faithful. He loved
> that place. He started out as a volunteer for WCVO years
> before and worked his way up the ladder. He had a heart and
> a passion for that place. They'll not find many more as
> faithful as him.
>
> I hear they fired their 95.1 mid-ohio station manager for
> daring to have a slight difference of opinion on something
> last year.
>
> And there are rumors that they're getting ready to blow out
> their promotions director. I wonder if he knows they've
> advertised for applicants for his job already.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what their problem is? Sounds to
> me like they need to hire the right people in the FIRST
> PLACE and THEN retain them.
>

 

[MarketWatcher]

I'm not saying Dan's not a good guy. In fact, I'm sure he's better than most in Christian radio.

But a great manager wouldn't have hired the wrong people for the wrong positions in the first place.

I just don't think it's fair to people in general to bring a bunch of staff into the company only to let them go a year...two years...three years later... only to replace them with someone that THEMSELVES end up on the "outs" a year or two later.

I have no problem with running a lean, cost-efficient company. And trimming un-needed jobs is part of that. But if a manager comes in and hires WAY too many staff and then turns around and fires them because he's getting too top-heavy with staff...what does that say about his management skills? And is that fair to your employees that have been hired and then fired?

Look, I know Michael James. If he was one who had a reputation of dropping the ball, then why did they put him in a management position? Seems as though they should know after a decade of service if he's management material before they promoted him. If he wasn't the kind who could cut it...then DON'T PROMOTE HIM. Know what you're doing before you promote. That's a mark of a good manager.

The point is that Baughman is apparently learning as he goes about managing a radio station and finding the right people to put in the right places. And the cost of his on the job training are numbered in staff being fired that he shouldn't have even hired in the first place.

I haven't condemned anyone here. I'm sure he's a good guy. But anytime you see staff chronically dropping like flies...that's a sure sign of someone in upper management having made a mistake at some point. They dropped the ball either in hiring all of this un-needed staff...or in not properly managing them to do their hired tasks.

Plus, if you'll talk to the remaining staff at CVCO...most of them are just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Again...morale is bad. And that's usually management's problem.

Now about ratings...good. They're great in fact. Better than they've ever been. And for that, I commend them. Plus, I'm sure the atmosphere is better around there than it was 5, 10 or even 15 years ago when Pat Patterson and his self interested Gustapo were running things. But just because one has come far doesn't mean that there shouldn't continue be improvement.

This isn't a condemnation of Dan Baughman. I know Dan personally and I know his intentions are good. He's done ALOT with that group. Again... he's a good man. He just needs some management help. For goodness sake...besides staff dropping right and left, they were recently fined THOUSANDS of dollars for running commercials on their NON COMMERCIAL Zanesville station. What does that say about the state of organization and management there? Good intentions are not a get out of jail free card. Recognize weakness in yourself...and get help. That's the path of wisdom!!! I hope he recognizes that before he becomes a fall guy.

 

[toddohio]

What you described is called growing pains.

 

[neutral_observer]

> But a great manager wouldn't have hired the wrong people for
> the wrong positions in the first place.

Sometimes, you just have to get a body in there.


> I just don't think it's fair to people in general to bring a
> bunch of staff into the company only to let them go a
> year...two years...three years later... only to replace them
> with someone that THEMSELVES end up on the "outs" a year or
> two later.

...and, considering your use of the five year-old's favorite word of objection -- "fair," I have to believe that, if these people hadn't been hired in the first place, you would have been whining that it wasn't "fair" they weren't "given a chance!"



> But if a manager comes in and hires WAY too many staff and then
> turns around and fires them because he's getting too
> top-heavy with staff...

By definition, it is impossible to be "top-heavy" with "staff!"



> ...what does that say about his management skills?

It depends. One would need to know and understand the full story, and you're not providing it. (NO, that's NOT an invitation to post more of it!)



> And is that fair to your employees that have been hired and then fired?

Possibly not, but I think the real issue here is your continuous use of the word "fair" -- it suggests you have a lot of growing yet to do.



> Look, I know Michael James.

That was obvious. All readers here had figured out you were...uh...very close to the situation.


> If he was one who had a reputation of dropping the ball, then why did
> they put him in a management position? Seems as though they should know
> after a decade of service if he's management material before
> they promoted him.

Again, we would need to know the whole story...and, again, that is NOT an invitation for you to post it.

Here's what happens:

One person says, "you know, I've been seeing John rotating his arms over his head and down toward his back."

Another person says, "that's funny - I've seen him moving his legs and kicking his feet."

The first says, "well, we really need another swimmer, and here's a guy who's rotating his arms over his head down toward his back and moving his legs and kicking his feet; what do you think?"

"You're right, we do need another swimmer. Okay, let's let him in the pool."

You just never know about a person for sure until you've seen him in the water. All the abilities could appear to be there, but the person winds up not being able to put them all together and swim. Or swim fast enough. Or swim in the specific races where you need swimmers.



> The point is that Baughman is apparently learning as he goes
> about managing a radio station and finding the right people
> to put in the right places.

Ha...who isn't?!



> And the cost of his on the job training are numbered in staff being fired that
> he shouldn't have even hired in the first place.

Yes, it winds up being unpleasant and maybe even very painful for some people, but you just don't - and can't - know at the time!

All this says is that he's human.

I recommend reading, hearing, and/or seeing Jack Welch -- considered by many to be the greatest manager alive today, he'll be the first to tell you these things that we're telling you.



> I haven't condemned anyone here. I'm sure he's a good guy.
> .
> .
> .
> I know Dan personally and I know his intentions are good. He's done
> ALOT with that group. Again... he's a good man.

Ooops...a little slip there!


> But anytime you see staff chronically dropping like
> flies...that's a sure sign of someone in upper management
> having made a mistake at some point. They dropped the ball
> either in hiring all of this un-needed staff...or in not
> properly managing them to do their hired tasks.

So, what do you want? What is the outcome you want? Do you want some of these people to have their jobs back even if, as you've conceded, they're currently incapable of doing them at the level desired or needed?

We're all (or, at least, many of us) sorry that you've experienced a painful event, but why come here and say these things? There's nothing that you can actually do or accomplish on an internet message board, so why do what you're doing? There really seems to be a significant maturity issue here.



> Plus, if you'll talk to the remaining staff at CVCO...most
> of them are just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
> Again...morale is bad.

OR...they've just been trying to be sympathetic or empathetic when talking to you! People do that sometimes...make that "a lot of times."



> Plus, I'm sure the atmosphere is better around there than it was 5,
> 10, or even 15 years ago...

Wow, now I'm really getting confused!


I'm very sorry if something painful has happened to you or someone you know, but the better and more mature way to look at this is as a great opportunity for learning, growth, and new beginning. Yes, I know you don't want to hear that right now, but give it definite time and consideration.

 

[MarketWatcher]

> I have to believe that, if
> these people hadn't been hired in the first place, you would
> have been whining that it wasn't "fair" they weren't "given
> a chance!"
>

I guess we'll never know.




>
> > But if a manager comes in and hires WAY too many staff and
> then
> > turns around and fires them because he's getting too
> > top-heavy with staff...
>
> By definition, it is impossible to be "top-heavy" with
> "staff!"

I guess it depends on your definition of "top-heavy." But critique of definition isn't really why we're here, is it? Top heavy...you know...too many staff members at "the top." Too many generals and not enough soldiers. Understand what I meant? Maybe I didn't communicate effectively here.



> > ...what does that say about his management skills?
>
> It depends. One would need to know and understand the full
> story, and you're not providing it. (NO, that's NOT an
> invitation to post more of it!)
>

Well, I think 5 years of "growing pains" as another poster put it speaks for itself. CC, Infinity, Cumulus, etc... would have already fired him and brought in someone else by now.



>
>
> > And is that fair to your employees that have been hired
> and then fired?
>
> Possibly not, but I think the real issue here is your
> continuous use of the word "fair" -- it suggests you have a
> lot of growing yet to do.
>

Good attempt at intimidation by emotional discredit here! However, a dimestore psycological assesment of my maturity based on my usage of the word "Fair" isn't really moving this discussion along in a "mature" manner. Let's stick to the subject at hand and leave discussions of my maturity to my wife, parents and therapist.


>
>
> > Look, I know Michael James.
>
> That was obvious. All readers here had figured out you
> were...uh...very close to the situation.
>

I believe it was Jeff MacFarland (or was it Steve Swanson?) of Joy FM in Sarasota who said at GMA one year that assumption is the lowest form of communication. I "assume" that YOU assume that I'm MJ. There's no real way to prove either way my identity on this message board. So back to the topic at hand and concrete facts.



>
> > If he was one who had a reputation of dropping the ball,
> then why did
> > they put him in a management position? Seems as though
> they should know
> > after a decade of service if he's management material
> before
> > they promoted him.
>
> Again, we would need to know the whole story...and, again,
> that is NOT an invitation for you to post it.


I'm sure I don't even know the full story. So anything beyond what I've posted would be further assumption.



>
> Here's what happens:
>
> One person says, "you know, I've been seeing John rotating
> his arms over his head and down toward his back."
>
> Another person says, "that's funny - I've seen him moving
> his legs and kicking his feet."
>
> The first says, "well, we really need another swimmer, and
> here's a guy who's rotating his arms over his head down
> toward his back and moving his legs and kicking his feet;
> what do you think?"
>
> "You're right, we do need another swimmer. Okay, let's let
> him in the pool."
>
> You just never know about a person for sure until you've
> seen him in the water. All the abilities could appear to be
> there, but the person winds up not being able to put them
> all together and swim. Or swim fast enough. Or swim in the
> specific races where you need swimmers.
>

I have to admit that this is a great illustration and you've actually gone a long way toward changing the way I think about this sort of thing with it. Seriously.


>
>
> > The point is that Baughman is apparently learning as he
> goes
> > about managing a radio station and finding the right
> people
> > to put in the right places.
>
> Ha...who isn't?!


Again well said. And You're right. Maybe I was a bit trigger happy on that point.


>
>
>
> > And the cost of his on the job training are numbered in
> staff being fired that
> > he shouldn't have even hired in the first place.
>
> Yes, it winds up being unpleasant and maybe even very
> painful for some people, but you just don't - and can't -
> know at the time!
>

Again, agreed. But where do we start to get better? And what's the percentage of allowed hiring error before someone else is brought in to take over hiring? Just a thought. Where I work, the fire rate is WORLDS below this place. And my station has been on the air for fewer years than The River. There are many other examples.


> All this says is that he's human.
>

Well, that's part of what all this says. There may be more. There usually is when you have a failure rate of close to 50% on the people you've hired.


> I recommend reading, hearing, and/or seeing Jack Welch --
> considered by many to be the greatest manager alive today,
> he'll be the first to tell you these things that we're
> telling you.
>
>

Jack Welch. What has he written? I'd be interested in taking a look.



> > .
> > I know Dan personally and I know his intentions are good.
> He's done
> > ALOT with that group. Again... he's a good man.
>
> Ooops...a little slip there!
>


Huh?


>
> > But anytime you see staff chronically dropping like
> > flies...that's a sure sign of someone in upper management
> > having made a mistake at some point. They dropped the ball
>
> > either in hiring all of this un-needed staff...or in not
> > properly managing them to do their hired tasks.
>
> So, what do you want? What is the outcome you want? Do you
> want some of these people to have their jobs back even if,
> as you've conceded, they're currently incapable of doing
> them at the level desired or needed?
>

I'd like them to be mentored, trained and effectively brought up in their positions if they've been deemed 'good enough' to fill them. But so many managers don't have the skills or tools to train or mentor future leaders. A sad by-product of our present microwave system of instant gratification. I don't know. Maybe I'm a dreamer. Maybe, as you say, I have growing to do. I just hope that in my case growth isn't equated with becoming jaded to professional casualties.

> We're all (or, at least, many of us) sorry that you've
> experienced a painful event, but why come here and say these
> things? There's nothing that you can actually do or
> accomplish on an internet message board, so why do what
> you're doing? There really seems to be a significant
> maturity issue here.
>

First, I doubt you're actually sorry about anything. My guess is that the first sentence in your paragraph is conversational parsley to segue to your real point. But here again, I'm assuming.

What I'm trying to accomplish is to get some valuable (albeit general and possibly speculative) opinions on why this situation is taking place over there. And amongst the other stuff in your post here, you've actually given me some of that. And for that I thank you, Sir.



>
> > Plus, if you'll talk to the remaining staff at CVCO...most
>
> > of them are just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
> > Again...morale is bad.
>
> OR...they've just been trying to be sympathetic or
> empathetic when talking to you! People do that
> sometimes...make that "a lot of times."
>
>

Here again I sense that you assume I've worked for the company recently. Let me give you a glimpse of how I got my information about Morale there. They came to me. Not the other way around. I know several of the current staff very well from previous dealings with that radio group. But I haven't been involved with CVCO recently.

>
> > Plus, I'm sure the atmosphere is better around there than
> it was 5,
> > 10, or even 15 years ago...
>
> Wow, now I'm really getting confused!
>
>

That's ok. You wouldn't be confused if you knew how BAD it really used to be around there. The current environment is heaven compared to 15 years ago.



> I'm very sorry if something painful has happened to you or
> someone you know, but the better and more mature way to look
> at this is as a great opportunity for learning, growth, and
> new beginning. Yes, I know you don't want to hear that
> right now, but give it definite time and consideration.
>

Again, your aim would be dead-on here if I was who you think I am. Your use of logic, reasoning and structure is excellent. For the most part, you actually gave me what I came here for; cogent discussion.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by MarketWatcher on 01/10/06 04:49 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[xmusicmatt]

Wonder what WCVO would do if Clear Channel decides to bring a Christian AC to town? I wouldn't rule that out.. They have one in Austin Texas and OKC now. Columbus would be a market I could see them trying to do an "AC" station in cosndiering the success WCVO has had with ratings.

Matt<P ID="signature">______________
Program Director/Music Director
X Music Online
The X
Today's Best Music
http://www.xmusiconline.com/</P>

 

[radiodaze621]

When a company starts out small, there are sometimes people there that will not fit when it grows to a larger company - and all the coaching, prodding and pleading won't work. Also, faithful does not equal effective. There are numerous reasons people are no longer employed, whether it's radio, TV, the local shoe store, or where ever. (Seen the news lately?)
Unless you have some kind of electronic eavedropping equipment somewhere in that organization, you're probably hearing your information from one (or more) of the people no longer there, a perspective which tends to lend itself to negativity.
I've been there myself before.
There may not really be a "problem" there other than previous management leaving behind their remnants.