What's happening at KTWV "The Wave"?

[K.M. Richards]

Part of my comments were designed to amplify what you had said.

However, my comments about your suggestion on what CBS should do, perhaps my phrasing did not make it clear that any such "dividing up" of the songs would be made as part of an analysis of why there is no more Hot 92.3; if you're going to make a move to try to grab alienated listeners you first need to know why the former station dropped the format (or at least a best educated guess), otherwise how do you know which group of listeners is the most available for grabbing?

You say 94.7 should be a rhythmic AC but don't tell us why. WTF is a "very good heavy"?

You also seem to think 93.1 and 101.1 should be adding songs they weren't already playing just because of the format change at 92.3, as if they hadn't likely already been testing a lot of songs that would fit the formats.

As for the "." not being necessary, try telling the FCC that.

 

[davideduardo]

In 2005, KXOL switched from Spanish-language programming to bilingual programming. The on-air hosts spoke both Spanish and English (but not at the same time, of course). Some of the songs and some of the ads were in Spanish and some were in English. I believe there were a few ratings periods when KXOL ranked #1 among 12-to-24-year-old listeners. In 2006, there were rumors that country KZLA would switch to a similar Spanglish format. KZLA instead became Movin' 93.9 and, even with Rick Dees in mornings, was unsuccessful. A decade later, the percentage of Latinos and hispanics in Los Angeles has increased. Would a Spanglish format work on KTWV? At least K.M. can't say that such a format is "too white."

There isn't a working "spanglish" format anywhere that I know of.

 

[davideduardo]

947 should be a mass appeal rhythmic ac that is very good heavy.

What is "very good heavy"?

 

[DOB]

Very gold heavy, I type fast so mistakes happen.

First off, no there are no songs from hot 92.3 for Jack, I didn't say that at all anywhere in my post, but if that was implied some how then to clear it up, no way.

Hot 92.3 was a moderately successful station. It was switched because they got big boy and that a hip hop station compliments the cluster better. Also, since 947 has been stepping on their heels, they have taken some of their listeners time as well.

This rhythmic ac format is very viable for LA, but with 94.7 going with it, it took away from what 92.3 had. They might not have made this change if they didn't get a competitor in 94.7, though getting big boy was a game changer and he could be the west coast urban morning man to compliment the east coast breakfast club.

I'm saying there might be a song or two from the old 92.3 that 101.1 could pick up on, but mostly it is 94.7. They could create a nice station for the cbs cluster by adding in the mainstays from the old 92.3. If they pick up their listeners we are talking some pretty nice numbers here. I think there is a way to do a nice hybrid rhythmic ac format that is the best of the old 92.3 along with the best of what 94.7 had going. It is going to be mostly gold based, probably 90%, but with the new songs like John Legend and Jill Scott that go well with the oldies as well.

2 stations doing this format, although they were different, was too much. Now that 94.7 has this lane all to themselves they can do this where they keep their current listeners but also take in the old 92.3 ones. I guess you could make the argument that with how well kost and kbig are doing, that you could put on ac that is more up tempo than kost but more gold based than kbig. If you do this I think that 101.1 would be the #1 station for 11 of the 13 books each year. You could also tweak 101.1 just a tad to be a bit more rhythmic(just a little and by no means am I saying drop rock lol) but as 101.1 gets newer it is starting to step on Jack's toes, so you create a bit more separation between these 2.

btw, this is not the fcc but I put the dots in for you anyway. I have not said the "point" on air in ages, not at the classic hits station or the top 40 that I have been working at for the last 8 or so years. We did say the "point" at the heritage top 40 I was at before those 2, but that was because they have always been called that going back to the early 80s, it is pretty much gone from station names today.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I have not said the "point" on air in ages, not at the classic hits station or the top 40 that I have been working at for the last 8 or so years. We did say the "point" at the heritage top 40 I was at before those 2, but that was because they have always been called that going back to the early 80s, it is pretty much gone from station names today.

Just wanted to say that while I appreciate that, there is still a difference between the way dial positions are announced at stations and the way formatted text on a message board is read.

As an example, my client station in Albuquerque uniformly promotes its dial position as "94-5" but if I were writing about them I would use the traditional "94.5" for their frequency. Call it an industry convention (as in, look at the way AllAccess, Radio INK, and the like do it).

I also appreciate your clearing up the typo on "gold" (for some reason, neither David or I recognized it as such ... most likely because you created a valid word in the process) and for clarifying that your comments on the music were intended to be focused on KTWV. I still think CBS is in the middle of evaluating their position in light of the flip at 92.3; I am of the opinion that iHeart didn't flip because they had Big Boy but rather that they had likely decided some time ago that Power would be ripe for a challenge if a strong enough morning show could be created to build a station around. Until Alexander came to them while "shopping around" that idea was sitting on a shelf somewhere, then taken down and dusted off. If he hadn't approached them and simply re-upped with Emmis without looking elsewhere, it'd still be sitting on that shelf.

Given that, CBS suddenly had a new variable to take into account in what has to be, by now, an ongoing discussion of what to do with 94.7; part of their problem -- again, in my opinion -- is that they were the pioneer of the New Age/Smooth Jazz format and as a result were very hesitant at moving away from it. I'm sure their intent was threefold: One, to try to maintain the heritage "Wave" branding; two, to gently transition in whatever direction they decided on; and three, to avoid starting any kind of industry panic about the format's viability in general (of course, as we have seen, the industry figured that out anyway).

All of that being said, CBS needs to make a decision, and soon. The multiple shifts in direction over the past several years has pretty much reduced the brand name advantage, as nearly everyone who has ever listened to them would have a memory of whatever "version" of the format was in place at the time. I've had conversations with people who still think the station plays David Benoit and Ottmar Liebert (how many years has it been since those artists, and others like them, were purged); while that is, of course, anecdotal and therefore not a reason in and of itself to consider changes, it is one real factor CBS must be aware of and which is part of whatever discussions are taking place about the station's future.

Of course, they could always do what has been suggested many times in mock seriousness over the years, and just create an FM simulcast of KNX.

 

[crainbebo]

KNX FM 94.7 and 1070 may be the way to go. Do you try for a 2.9 in the PPM, or a 2.4? Most likely the 2.9. Los Angeles most likely would not make smooth jazz very viable...and that's sad! KTWV was such a heritage smooth jazz station in the 90s and 2000s.

-crainbebo

 

[davideduardo]

KNX FM 94.7 and 1070 may be the way to go. Do you try for a 2.9 in the PPM, or a 2.4? Most likely the 2.9. Los Angeles most likely would not make smooth jazz very viable...and that's sad! KTWV was such a heritage smooth jazz station in the 90s and 2000s.

KNX was 27th in 25-54 in the last book, and is in a market where news does not do well. This is in no small part due to the fact that 70% or so of the population consists of groups that don't use news radio as much as the core of non-Hispanic white listeners do: 8% African American, 42% Hispanic, 12% Asian and about 12% first generation immigrants not included in these other groups such as Russians, Persians, and persons from the Arab nations.

Smooth jazz died of low numbers and aging listeners in LA despite it being the market where Frank Cody, Owen Leach et. al. invented the format in 1987. It's been nearly a decade since it was remotely viable, and it can never be reborn.

 

[Thomps2525]

Verrry interesting. (Said in my best Arte Johnson voice.) I was re-reading some of the 1986-87 Radio People bi-weekly newsletters which were published by Don Barrett and the December 9 1986 issue includes some observations by Herald-Examiner radio columnist Ray Richmond. Remember, this was two months prior to the so-called Valentines Day Massacre when KMET dropped AOR and became "new age" KTWV. Richmond offered his suggestion for KMET: "Can't-miss format for the ratings-starved station: classic black/urban rock oldies." Some of us are still making that suggestion more than 28 years later!

Richmond also had this to say about AM 930: "KRTH-AM, formerly KHJ - saddest sound on the dial. Never has a station plummeted so dramatically as the once legendary top-40 purveyor."

 

[K.M. Richards]

I, for one, could care less what Ray Richmond thought more than a quarter-century ago. He had, as has Richard Wagoner in the present, too much of an emotional attachment to the glory days of KHJ.

Radio columnists (and radio history feature writers ) are unfortunately prone to think their perspectives are better than the people who actually program the radio stations they write about. As I recall, Ray was especially blind to the realities of the industry: His remarks were phrased as if the downturn was sudden, instead of coming after Boss Radio gave way to "growing up to be cowboys" and Car Radio. That's about a half-dozen years which he ignores as if Bill Drake had only left the building in 1986, instead of a good dozen years' previous.

As a curiosity of history, the above is interesting. As a valid point of current discussions, it is irrelevant, if for no other reason than the huge shift in demographics over the almost three decades that have passed since.

 

[Thomps2525]

I didn't see anything "sad" about the oldies format on KRTH-AM...although they played songs from an eleven-year span (1955-65) and called it "rock'n'roll's first ten years." And hey, I never insist that my perspectives are better. All I say is that they are my perspectives and opinions and I am entitled to hold them. I'm going to leave now before you bring up that KRTH thread.

 

[michael hagerty]

I, for one, could care less what Ray Richmond thought more than a quarter-century ago. He had, as has Richard Wagoner in the present, too much of an emotional attachment to the glory days of KHJ.

Last week was the 50th anniversary of Boss Radio. It was one helluva station---for its time. Discussing it now is akin to having Don Page from the L.A. Times talking about radio from 1915 then....except there wasn't any.

 

[DrAkbar]

Last week was the 50th anniversary of Boss Radio. It was one helluva station---for its time. Discussing it now is akin to having Don Page from the L.A. Times talking about radio from 1915 then....except there wasn't any.

Hey, wait a minute! Weren't the Rolling Stones touring in 1965? Those old farts are still touring 50 years later, and are still relevant. Fact is we're all living a lot longer and most remember what they were doing 50 years ago.

Now imagine what we'll be talking about in two years when BANG 545 hits the mid-century mark?!

 

[TheBigA]

Hey, wait a minute! Weren't the Rolling Stones touring in 1965? Those old farts are still touring 50 years later, and are still relevant. Fact is we're all living a lot longer and most remember what they were doing 50 years ago.

Memories are fine when they're free...but how much would you pay for a 50 year old memory?

That's the question. If radio was a hobby, it wouldn't matter. But it's not.

The Stones figured it out. But it's not that easy in radio.

 

[LKellerIII]

Last week was the 50th anniversary of Boss Radio. It was one helluva station---for its time. Discussing it now is akin to having Don Page from the L.A. Times talking about radio from 1915 then....except there wasn't any.

I made the same analogy some time ago regarding Oldies radio, when people were upset that 60s music was being purged from the airwaves for 80s Classic hits. Hearing a 45+ year old song like...let's say - Brown Eyed Girl would have been the same as KRTH in the early 70s playing Ain't She Sweet by Paul Whiteman & the Rhythm Boys (featuring Bing Crosby).

 

[K.M. Richards]

I didn't see anything "sad" about the oldies format on KRTH-AM...although they played songs from an eleven-year span (1955-65) and called it "rock'n'roll's first ten years."

You've complained about that enough, Steve. Let it go, please.

 

[jasonharper2013]

Ktwv 94.7

Notice mediabase has dropped ktwv from urban ac

 

[K.M. Richards]

Jason, I am once again going to gently suggest that the subject line should consist of more than just the call letters and frequency, so that we can tell it apart from the other threads about the same station. Thank you.

 

[frankberry]

Jason, I am once again going to gently suggest that the subject line should consist of more than just the call letters and frequency, so that we can tell it apart from the other threads about the same station. Thank you.

That's why I merged it into this thread.

 

[jasonharper2013]

ok sorry i was going to put it here and should have in first place

 

[davideduardo]

Notice mediabase has dropped ktwv from urban ac

It never was truly an urban AC... it was AC with a smooth jazz flavor. And the Smooth Jazz had always had a strong r&b influence.