What's The Point

[Radknowski]

Not much extensive discussion about it here, but while examining the 12+ numbers from the first trend of the Fall book, it's hard not to notice that WWKB and WHLD aren't setting the market on fire. Combined, they barely break a 1 share, WWKB having a 0.7 and WHLD having a 0.5, Persons 12+, 6 a.m. to midnight, Monday through Sunday. WECK's country format, turning in a 0.9 isn't doing much either. Meanwhile, WXRL gets a 1.3 share! WLVL, Lockport gets a 0.8 and CHWO pulls a 2 share.

Amazing.

 

[ThePickleReport]

I'm wondering when the next station will get its "10 seconds of fame" and flip an AM to an adult standards/easy listening format. I know the popular sentiment on is that no-one wants the audience....but....I'd take WECK's former billing & numbers.

 

[lash]

Same thing with KB. Except for expense, I can't understand to this day why they flipped it. Both it and WECK were certainly stronger before.

 

[Element9]

Same thing with KB. Except for expense, I can't understand to this day why they flipped it. Both it and WECK were certainly stronger before.

Mr. Bonzini! As an owner and having experience in smaller markets such as Cortland and Erie, you'd be familiar with day-to-day economics.

According to Jeff Silver, CBS-Regent GM, WECK's Adult Standards format was profitable, billing $1M per year. Why CBS changed it is anybody's guess. Seems like a foolish decision. It was also an format oasis of sorts.

I don't think the same could be said for KB. Of the two stations, WECK was more successful, having consistency and format heritage. Of the two stations, I'd opt for bringing back adult standards on WECK.

While Entercom would very much like to see WWKB billing $1M a year, the station has run the gamut of formats. Standards would seem to be an ideal fit on 1520, but the "wheel of format" changes over the last ten years may have taken a toll and it may be cheaper to run KB as it is, on life support with a format that's quirky enough to get some listeners who take a breather for a few minutes before returning to WBEN. WWKB also serves as a catch-all for sports programming that isn't cleared on WGR and University at Buffalo football and basketball.

Would listeners 50+ flock to KB as an Adult Standards format? Would the same listeners return to WECK if it resumes Adult Standards? It happened once before with 97 Rock when it came back from the dead. It might happen again. A calculating GM would flip WECK yesterday and also incorporate some pre-70's format compatible oldies that aren't heard elsewhere on the AM or FM band. $1M billing isn't chump change.


-9-

 

[lash]

I just don't understand why somebody, anybody can't take a 50,000 watt AM hitting two countries, and two or three states during the day, and a clear channel at night, blasting to 20 states, and program something that can pull a 2+ share. Why would anyone give up on a station like KB?

If they don't want it, give it to me, or someone else. At least we'll try!

The WECK format change was just stupid. But I still feel strongly that an hip adult standards blasting to half the country at night on KB would work.

 

[anoldguy]

The thing about KB running Stephnie Miller and Ed Shultz is it has not caught on yet and hasn't had a long enough time period to see what it can do. Although Entercom's co-owned WROC in Rochester has had the format a little longer they are not exactly setting the world on fire either. Of course the signal is part of the problem at WROC as well as a lack of promotion. However, if WROC & WWKB should catch on, the ratings would be small but would be hitting a younger, educated, more hip audience than WBEN and WHAM. So even if they got a 2 share it would be a strong 35 -54 audience with a strong showing in women. So as the manager of a station what would be better....
a 3 share like WLGZ gets or WECK got strong in 54+ or a 2 share hitting a younger more desirable to advertisers audience?
I think if both stations hang in there a little longer with a little promotion so people know that they are there it could work. Let's face it, most people who would listen to such programing don't even know where there AM tuner is on their reciever.

 

[dampier]

The thing about KB running Stephnie Miller and Ed Shultz is it has not caught on yet and hasn't had a long enough time period to see what it can do. Although Entercom's co-owned WROC in Rochester has had the format a little longer they are not exactly setting the world on fire either. Of course the signal is part of the problem at WROC as well as a lack of promotion. However, if WROC & WWKB should catch on, the ratings would be small but would be hitting a younger, educated, more hip audience than WBEN and WHAM. So even if they got a 2 share it would be a strong 35 -54 audience with a strong showing in women. So as the manager of a station what would be better....
a 3 share like WLGZ gets or WECK got strong in 54+ or a 2 share hitting a younger more desirable to advertisers audience?
I think if both stations hang in there a little longer with a little promotion so people know that they are there it could work. Let's face it, most people who would listen to such programing don't even know where there AM tuner is on their reciever.

WROC gets zero promotion, not even on Entercom's own stations. Its ratings have been flat and essentially the same as they were when it was running second tier conservative talk shows. They didn't promote it then either. They are not going to draw a younger audience to AM without a re-education campaign explaining that AM isn't just a time of day, but a band as well.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

WROC gets zero promotion, not even on Entercom's own stations. Its ratings have been flat and essentially the same as they were when it was running second tier conservative talk shows. They didn't promote it then either. They are not going to draw a younger audience to AM without a re-education campaign explaining that AM isn't just a time of day, but a band as well.

The reason that WROC-AM has no promotion budget is because Entercom is spending money promoting its top two rated stations; WBEE and "The Buzz." Besides that 950 has one of the worst signal patterns in the metro Rochester area. That station is just a latch-key operation and I’ve always wondered why Entercom bothers to keep it? What will be interesting to see is what avenue WROC-AM takes if Air America goes dark. The conservative talk market is already locked up with WHAM and now WYSL. The only other formats open to WROC-AM could be going after Legends 990, leasing the station to a religious broadcasting group, or a Bonneville type of easy listening format similar to what WEZO played during the 1970s and 80’s.

 

[SirRoxalot]

WROC

WROC could always go Spanish, or become the local brokered programming outlet. WHLD made a profit with brokered programming, and in a sense are still brokered to Cashdollar & Co. for their presentation of Air America.

 

[ThePickleReport]

$1M billing isn't chump change.

No it isn't. I'm generalizing here, but I imagine a lot of the advertisers on WECK were as loyal as the listeners.

Like I said before the new owners could create some nice publicity for themselves if they changed the format back to standards. Hello, Regent?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Re: WROC

WROC could always go Spanish, or become the local brokered programming outlet. WHLD made a profit with brokered programming, and in a sense are still brokered to Cashdollar & Co. for their presentation of Air America.

There are a number of alternatives WROC-AM could take. The most practical and economical would be just to sell the station to a religious broadcasting group.

 

[raymond_shaw]

What will be interesting to see is what avenue WROC-AM takes if Air America goes dark.

Actually, from 6m-6pm, m-f, WROC is now only running 3 hours of AA programming(Al Franken, noon-3pm). They recently dropped AA's latest morning show, The Young Turks, replacing it with Bill Press. WWKB also runs Press in the morning.

I am also surprised that Entercom wants to keep WROC, as they will soon own 4-5 major FM's in the city. Perhaps nobody serious wants to buy it?

How much would AM 950 go for on the market these days, taking into consideration it's bad signal and all?

 

[Mark_Giardina]

What will be interesting to see is what avenue WROC-AM takes if Air America goes dark.

I am also surprised that Entercom wants to keep WROC, as they will soon own 4-5 major FM's in the city. Perhaps nobody serious wants to buy it?

How much would AM 950 go for on the market these days, taking into consideration it's bad signal and all?

To answer your question I highly doubt any large media company would want to buy WROC-AM. So therefore perhaps some local group of investors who want to play radio might be interested. As for the price, I am guessing that the station might go for around $800,000 to $900,000. Again it's just a guess. Anything over 1 million would be too much money.

 

[lash]

Can anyone guess what they would want for KB?

 

[Mark_Giardina]

Can anyone guess what they would want for KB?

A 50kw clear channel (not the company) station with a signal that reaches numerous states during the evening hours; I would venture to say the lowest price to purchase it would be in the neighborhood of $5 million. That's the lowest price. I'm certain Entercom would want more.
As a native of Buffalo and long-time listener to the former WKBW, I find it pathetic what has happened to that one-time radio giant. If a group of radio professionals were to purchase KB they could turn it into a successful operation. It might take a few years because of the damage already inflicted, but it could be done.

 

[lash]

Here's what is a shame! A minimum of 5 million for this one time giant. And that 5 million sure has heck isn't based on revenue or cash flow. These idiots destroy a station like this, but still want 5 million for it.

But your right, it could be fixed!

 

[rdcuffpa1]

The WECK format change was just stupid. But I still feel strongly that an hip adult standards blasting to half the country at night on KB would work.

What's "Hip Adult Standards"? To this outsider, it sounds like an oxymoron.

Isn't Adult Standards what CHWO does anyway?

Richard in Allentown, PA (ex-East Aurora)

 

[Mark_Giardina]

Here's what is a shame! A minimum of 5 million for this one time giant. And that 5 million sure has heck isn't based on revenue or cash flow. These idiots destroy a station like this, but still want 5 million for it.

But your right, it could be fixed!

Please note that I am guessing about the price. Most likely WWKB will cost a lot more than 5 million dollars. Someone once told me that WHAM, which is also a 50kw clear channel station (actually owned by CC) would go for between 20 to 25 million. Back in 1983 the station was purchased for a mere $3 million. I tried like hell to get the owner of the station I worked for the buy WHAM. Unfortunately he didn't act fast enough to put in a bid.

If you plan on buying WWKB, I wish you good luck.

 

[raymond_shaw]

I was told along time ago that before the days before dereg('96 Telcom Act), the average way of figuring out a station's market value was annual cash flow x 3. After dereg, it increased to x 10. Is this about right?

But little WROC and big KB have one thing in common(besides their formats) - they both would appear to have very little cash flow. Most of the spots I hear on WROC are what I believe are called "added value" spots for clients who buy on The Bee and The Buzz. I hear a few Green Party ads around election time, but not much else.

So who would pay so many millions of dollars to buy KB when, as a stand alone station, they would probably have few advertisers? Also, the only folks with deep pockets to come up with that money are mega broadcasters and suits like that would not consider trying to revive a low rated AM(who's only glory is it's past history) a good business investment.

Both WROC and KB have multi-antenna transmitter sites. With all the maintenance that goes into that and the monthly electric bills, why is it still worth it to Entercom to keep these low performers?

 

[lash]

Your 10X cash flow is still a good number, however I'm told that Clear Channel wants 12X for the 448 properties they are selling off. Most of which are smaller unrated markets, and stations they destroyed.

The key word is destroyed! KB was destroyed a long time ago. It needs a giant resurrection, which would cost a ton.

And sorry, I understand its a clear channel. But its a destroyed clear channel. Its not worth 5 million, not even close.

I haven't heard CHWO for years. Last time was when Bob Dearborn was still there. But a short example of a hip adult standards it WJAS in Pittsburgh.

Legendary talent, playing more or less a real oldies format, and pulling great numbers. Don't know what the revenue is, but I would imagine its in the 1 to 1.5 million dollar range.

KB can't be in that range now!