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What's the status of 1220-AM?

T

The Voice of Reason

This is a question that Bob Savage can answer.
Not trying to be nosy, but how far along are you Bob in the process of getting 1220 up and running? What's the coverage area? And can you increase the power like you were able to with WYSL? Inquiring minds want to know. :)
 
Mr. Savage's signal will be limited (at least to the west) because he'll have to protect CHSC in St. Catherine's Ontario, so he can only put so much to the west. He can correct me if I'm wrong but I think I read somewhere on this very board that he has talked with the folks at CHSC and has figured out a way for both stations to co-exist quite nicely without infringing on each other's territory. I think he also mentioned another station at 1220 that he has to squeeze the signal away from.
 
"What's the status of 1220 AM??" Wish I knew.

The CP application has gone into the gaping processing maw at the FCC. We're kind of at the "when we've got something to tell you or to ask, we'll let you know" stage. We did a series of measurements this spring on both CHSC and WECK in Cheektowaga to pull competing contours apart so we can tweak the final pattern.

The facility applied for is 2.5kw, DA-2. Indeed the night coverage is considerably restricted to the west and west-southwest because of the aforementioned stations and WHKW Cleveland, but a nice big lobe over Rochester.
 
BTW, VOR, it's not "nosy." Feel free to ask anytime you wish. I'm happy to pass along what I know. But, as is often the case with the FCC, that's "nothing for now" until they get around to your paperwork.

The proposed 2.5 kw 1220 would encompass a population of over 800,000 within the 5 mv signal, so it should be a pretty good facility. Also it will diplex on the existing WYSL array with the exception of an additional tower which would have to be used for nighttime 1220 only. WYSL plans to use the old, retired 2.5kw feed system and sample lines for 1220 and we built the new 1040 20kw transmitting plant with room in it for the 1220 transmitter and phasor.
 
Savage said:
BTW, VOR, it's not "nosy." Feel free to ask anytime you wish. I'm happy to pass along what I know. But, as is often the case with the FCC, that's "nothing for now" until they get around to your paperwork.

The proposed 2.5 kw 1220 would encompass a population of over 800,000 within the 5 mv signal, so it should be a pretty good facility. Also it will diplex on the existing WYSL array with the exception of an additional tower which would have to be used for nighttime 1220 only. WYSL plans to use the old, retired 2.5kw feed system and sample lines for 1220 and we built the new 1040 20kw transmitting plant with room in it for the 1220 transmitter and phasor.
Click to expand...

Ah...the infamous FCC motto: Hurry up and wait. One other question, if you don't mind? Will 1220 occupy the same facility as WYSL, or are you going to build new studios once the FCC gives you permission to proceed?
 
1220 would operate out of the 5620 South Lima Road facility. We have a total of four studios, and the "talk" Studio B is really only in use for recording long-form shows and Nojay from 2-3pm. As I mentioned the new 20kw transmitter gallery, which added almost 500 sq ft in 2005, was built with additional floor space and HVAC planned to accomodate 1220 should that happen.

BTW, because 9-tower CHSC has to protect first-adjacent WECK, a mere 23 miles to the Canadian station's east - WECK actually presents more of a protection factor during the day than the 10kw Canadian does! CHSC is highly restricted due east. Taking measurements for 1220 in the field last fall, I was astonished at the amount of IBOC interference the St. Catherines station was enduring. Maybe Dick Green will eventually turn HD off, which he inherited from CBS.
 
1220 CHSC was sold not too long ago.
The new owner is actually trying to go FM with the AC format and all multicultural with the AM side.

I don't think their AM licence will allow them to be a Toronto radio station though:

http://www.1220chsc.ca/
 
This brings us full-circle to answer a question posed earlier in the thread (which I inadvertently failed to do.)
If CHSC were to follow the general Canadian trend and take their AM dark, that would greatly reduce the protection factors imposed by the co-channel station. Of course first-adjacent WECK is still an issue, but only in the daytime.

How much power could the Lakeville AM get if CHSC 1220 were to go away? That's a question for WYSL's consulting engineer. Of course we're mostly interested in how much of an improvement we could get to the north, western coverage being far less important than Rochester. The big limiting factor at night is Cleveland's big 1220.
 
Savage said:
This brings us full-circle to answer a question posed earlier in the thread (which I inadvertently failed to do.)
If CHSC were to follow the general Canadian trend and take their AM dark, that would greatly reduce the protection factors imposed by the co-channel station. Of course first-adjacent WECK is still an issue, but only in the daytime.

How much power could the Lakeville AM get if CHSC 1220 were to go away? That's a question for WYSL's consulting engineer. Of course we're mostly interested in how much of an improvement we could get to the north, western coverage being far less important than Rochester. The big limiting factor at night is Cleveland's big 1220.
Click to expand...

When Canada deletes AM facilities, it does so only domestically. The deleted facilities are still reported internationally, and must still be protected as though they were on the air. If that weren't the case, I could slide a decent 910 right into Rochester, filling the gap left behind when CKLY in Lindsay moved to FM (and, before that, when CBO Ottawa moved from 910 to 920 and then to FM.)

In some cases, US AM stations are still protecting twice-dead Canadian AMs - WLIB, for instance, protects CHTN Charlottetown PEI, never mind that CHTN moved from 1190 to 720 in the eighties and then from 720 to FM a few years back.

On very rare occasions, Canada can be persuaded to shift its internationally-reported allocations to improve a US facility. I don't remember the exact details now, but there was an AM somewhere in the midwest (820 Chicago, maybe?) that arranged to have a vacant Canadian allotment somewhere in northern Ontario shifted from 820 to (I think) 770. That's unusual, though.

In the meantime, the only benefit Bob's new 1220 might get from a CHSC move to FM would be a somewhat lower noise floor on the channel. There's something to be said for that - I remember how much better the night signal from WJIB in Boston (5 watts on 740) got out during the months between CBL's departure from 740 and CHWO's arrival there, for instance. Given how deeply CHSC is already nulled in Bob's direction, though, I'm not sure it would make that much difference.
 
Thanks for the reminder, Scott. I thought I heard something about them moving their site, but haven't been able to confirm that. Besides, as noted above, western coverage isn't much of an issue for Lakeville and WECK still presents a very low daytime limit in the same direction as CHSC.
 
I'd be interested to see what frequency CHSC would end up on if they were to move to FM. The FM band between Buffalo and Toronto is filled to overflowing as it is.
 
JakeLongwell said:
I'd be interested to see what frequency CHSC would end up on if they were to move to FM. The FM band *between Buffalo and Toronto is filled* to overflowing as it is.
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I've always believed that to be correct.
The desire to move the AC format to FM would serve as a lower powered station in Stoney creek.

(***Note: They never had plan to let the AM go dark! They wanted to run an AM 24/7 multicultural with an FM AC format***)

So far, the CRTC has denied the right for them to move anything to FM.
Not only because moving to fm is limited in space, but also because they are borderlining violation with their current AM split of AC and "Radio UNO" programming.

Their AM licence has not been approved for 24/7 multicultural use.
There is no immediate plan to let their AM go dark, regardless of what happens to the FM situation.

They did get locked out of their building in St. Catherines, but they will continue to survive somehow...

Here's the latest news about 1220 CHSC (and yes, they are *STILL* on the air, broadcasting out of their sales office in Woodbridge, for now.)

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1109144
 
Re: What's the status of 1220-AM? What should the new station be?

Just to shift the subject a little...Bob, not asking you to reveal any trade secrets in advance, but what holes in Rochester's current format menu do you think the new 1220 signal, when it happens, might be most profitable to fill? I know a lot of people here on this board (myself included) have speculated about the viability of everything from a progressive talker to replace WROC, to a Latino station, to classic country, to "true oldies", and beyond.

We know what's there now on AM in the six county metro--two long-established news/talkers (one commercial, one noncomm) with decent numbers, and a third one with a good signal that's clearly growing and starting to have a real impact; one and soon to be two sports-talkers, each with some play-by-play; four teaching/preaching stations, one Catholic and three Protestant (two of the three Protestant-leaning stations being suburban rimshots); a small local service outlet covering Batavia and Genesee County and targeting that area almost exclusively; another simialr AM/FM combo targeting exclusively the Dansville/southern Livingston County environs; and a rimshot network of regionally driven news/talkers targeting only the Finger Lakes portion of the metro. What do you think is the most potentially profitable hole left by these existing stations, for a new AM signal near the middle of the Rochester AM dial lineup with a signal good enough to take in most of the core population of the metro to fill?
 
Thanks, Bob1370, I appreciate your many nice comments here about our efforts. In answer to your programming question I would have to say frankly, at least at this juncture, "beats the hell out of me."

We had on a corner of our mental desk a sports-intensive product given ESPN's hunger for a Rochester outlet, but now WROC has taken that option. Certainly progressive/liberal is another option since there's plenty of product - it would also tend to quell the few complaints we've gotten about conservative programming to be able to say "we've got one channel for right, the other for left." Down in Cohocton I ran across a little country store that has two benches on either side of the entrance doors. One is labelled DEMOCRATS, the other REPUBLICANS...we could be the radio version. (Come to think about it, other than one or two calls when Laura debuted in 2006, the only anti-conservative complaints we've gotten have appeared on this board.)

On an emotional level I'd love to do a recreation of a late 60's oldies-based format with jingles, reverb, a la WABC or KLIF. Could we sell it? I'd have to explore that as well.

On that tantalizing note, I'll let all of us, this poster included, ruminate on what could be....
 
Bob Savage said:
On an emotional level I'd love to do a recreation of a late 60's oldies-based format with jingles, reverb, a la WABC or KLIF. Could we sell it? I'd have to explore that as well

I think a good future barometer of success of oldies on AM would be nearby WFBL. If oldies on any AM will work it would be WFBL. They have the power, the local talent, and the enthusiasim of the ownership. Syracuse has a huge over 50 population. But, although, there has been a lot of positive audience response, they have not shown up in the book and the sales are not there yet. Probably too soon. Maybe by the time 1220 is about to go on the air, there will be a track record on how well they are doing.
 
"On an emotional level I'd love to do a recreation of a late 60's oldies-based format with jingles, reverb, a la WABC or KLIF. Could we sell it?"

Hmmm, a 1964-75 music mix, classic CHR formatics (including actually mentioning the artist's name over the record intro before the vocal kicks in), a good PAMS or TM jingle package, reverb, C-Quam stereo with 40 hz-10 kHz audio and no IBOC, and jocks who made their name initially on either the 950 or 1460 spots on the dial back in the day and want to get back into the game again? And does anyone know if the WAXC call letters are available for use on the AM band these days?

News/talk's my first love and radio passion (God, it had better be) but that sure would be a cool station to listen to...and don't forget the :20-:20 news...

Bet you could get enough numbers to sell time profitably to businesses catering to all of us boomers...

;D
 
Savage said:
We had on a corner of our mental desk a sports-intensive product given ESPN's hunger for a Rochester outlet, but now WROC has taken that option. Certainly progressive/liberal is another option since there's plenty of product - it would also tend to quell the few complaints we've gotten about conservative programming to be able to say "we've got one channel for right, the other for left." Down in Cohocton I ran across a little country store that has two benches on either side of the entrance doors. One is labelled DEMOCRATS, the other REPUBLICANS...we could be the radio version. (Come to think about it, other than one or two calls when Laura debuted in 2006, the only anti-conservative complaints we've gotten have appeared on this board.)
On an emotional level I'd love to do a recreation of a late 60's oldies-based format with jingles, reverb, a la WABC or KLIF. Could we sell it? I'd have to explore that as well.
On that tantalizing note, I'll let all of us, this poster included, ruminate on what could be....
Click to expand...

If you don't come up with a format remember there is always the option of going all Hispanic all the time. ;)
All kidding aside it would be nice to hear a format similar to the old WAXC with a good selection of music and local news. I hope that I can drop that idea into the suggestion box for consideration?
 
And does anyone know if the WAXC call letters are available for use on the AM band these days?
Click to expand...

According to the FCC data base, the WAXC calls are assigned to an LPFM in Alexander City, Alabama. Y'all could work out a deal with 'em.
 
Savage said:
On an emotional level I'd love to do a recreation of a late 60's oldies-based format with jingles, reverb, a la WABC or KLIF. Could we sell it? I'd have to explore that as well.
Click to expand...

Go for the best of both worlds!
I recommend modeling after this station in Cornwall Ontario:

http://www.am1220.ca/shows/

(minus the classic country they recently chose to add, respectfully.)
 
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