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What's up with WRR?
- Thread starter grantchester
- Start date
Having WRR in play like this is not a good situation for the station. They won't be able to recruit or retain the sales and marketing professionals they need so long as there is a chance the station's commercial status could change. WRR is an asset to the city of Dallas. Changing it to a non-profit would have several detremental effects:
-The 50 million $$ figure being thrown around is myth. Dollars to donuts the final offer is closer to 20... if that much
-An endowment might be good in theory, but it's doubtful the station could keep all the money. City Council will always have funding pressures, and will always be looking at any large pot of money for other uses
-Making WRR a non-profit will put it in competition for donations with other arts and charity groups. That will hurt everyone.
-The staton makes money, despite all of the challenges of recent years. It should be allowed to do that.
I have nothing but good to say about Salem. They run a good shop. They have great facilities. Pete and Tyler are bright, honest, and care about people. Those qualities are rare in this business. (I have no use for their air product, but that's just me...) Still, I don't think they should get 101.1.
And the WRR air-sound is still screwed up. It sounds like the frequency response cuts off at 10k. Please, could'ya fix it? It's giving me a headache, and I find myself listening much less lately.
g
-The 50 million $$ figure being thrown around is myth. Dollars to donuts the final offer is closer to 20... if that much
-An endowment might be good in theory, but it's doubtful the station could keep all the money. City Council will always have funding pressures, and will always be looking at any large pot of money for other uses
-Making WRR a non-profit will put it in competition for donations with other arts and charity groups. That will hurt everyone.
-The staton makes money, despite all of the challenges of recent years. It should be allowed to do that.
I have nothing but good to say about Salem. They run a good shop. They have great facilities. Pete and Tyler are bright, honest, and care about people. Those qualities are rare in this business. (I have no use for their air product, but that's just me...) Still, I don't think they should get 101.1.
And the WRR air-sound is still screwed up. It sounds like the frequency response cuts off at 10k. Please, could'ya fix it? It's giving me a headache, and I find myself listening much less lately.
g
K
klifhanger
Guest
VoxPro:
"Advisor" is still a consultant no matter what costume they choose to wear for the day.
I agree with Grant a lot and he appears to be thinking this through more than any business advisor who wants to make a quick profit. Pete ,and Tyler are good people at Salem, plus Jim is great at SRN. Azinger and Anderson are another story all together. Salem is doing fine with the Freq(s). it has. They don't need to get involved with the WRR proposal.
Leave WRR alone. They are doing fine without the Greed that has infected radio in the last 10 years.
"Advisor" is still a consultant no matter what costume they choose to wear for the day.
I agree with Grant a lot and he appears to be thinking this through more than any business advisor who wants to make a quick profit. Pete ,and Tyler are good people at Salem, plus Jim is great at SRN. Azinger and Anderson are another story all together. Salem is doing fine with the Freq(s). it has. They don't need to get involved with the WRR proposal.
Leave WRR alone. They are doing fine without the Greed that has infected radio in the last 10 years.
Re: What's up with consultants?
Hey, K-H... You know the definition of a consultant?
He's the guy with a list of a hundred ways to make love to a woman,
who doesn't have a girlfriend.
Hey, K-H... You know the definition of a consultant?
He's the guy with a list of a hundred ways to make love to a woman,
who doesn't have a girlfriend.
R
Reasonable
Guest
The city will look at any proposal, but this swap will not happen. The classical music community is what is important to WRR, not some "retired expert" whose "win-win" solution is merely the present highest bid. Anyone who has been successfully involved in radio should know that much of the creativity, community involvement, and drive is generated from its sales department. To say that WRR will preserve its quality by taking a step down in operations obviously does not belong in radio.
WRR serves the Dallas city residents whether they listen to the station or not, but it is the almost 300,000 weekly audience members that truly matter. And they are some of the most affluent and influential Dallas city residents.
4 million dollars in annual billing is indeed, weak, for a station with such a sellable audience. The real solution is to get more aggressive in the sales department and not play dumb to the "advisor's" display of "opportunism" for his side. If this guy thinks the city should swap for the extra money, maybe he should also propose we let strip clubs and casinos move into the state fair's extra space. Or how about we sell our prison inmates for cheap labor in foreign countries.
Why the heck would he think that a revenue-building community asset like WRR should change and sell out so cheap? Surely, it would take a better radio professional and smarter person to make an arguement to a board and community of greater minds.
WRR serves the Dallas city residents whether they listen to the station or not, but it is the almost 300,000 weekly audience members that truly matter. And they are some of the most affluent and influential Dallas city residents.
4 million dollars in annual billing is indeed, weak, for a station with such a sellable audience. The real solution is to get more aggressive in the sales department and not play dumb to the "advisor's" display of "opportunism" for his side. If this guy thinks the city should swap for the extra money, maybe he should also propose we let strip clubs and casinos move into the state fair's extra space. Or how about we sell our prison inmates for cheap labor in foreign countries.
Why the heck would he think that a revenue-building community asset like WRR should change and sell out so cheap? Surely, it would take a better radio professional and smarter person to make an arguement to a board and community of greater minds.
M
MartinGG
Guest
Well, it's good and healthy to see so much interesting debate regarding the potential swap for WRR.
While the dollar number for the swap won't be known until after, if ever, the Council asks for proposals, but $50,000,000 is probably close to the number, PLUS the swap station.
Seems to me we need to leap to the end of the story...if the swap takes place, the citizens of Dallas and Ft. Worth will continue to hear classical music 24 hours a day except for City Council meetings...the new signal is comparable to the current WRR signal...
Should the City be competing in the private sector? That's for some debate...WRR currently performs under the pace of most classical stations...is it because WRR is owned by the City of Dallas...maybe, but WRR's performance is not up for debate here.
If the proposed swap took place, the LISTENER would be served with classical music and Arts News 24 hours a day...and if the City chooses, it can operate totaly commercial free...running on less that 1/2 the interest accrued by the Endowment Fund created by the swap.
It always interests me when folks start criticising the people (Salem, etc) involved, rather than focusing on the issue itself.
Just one man's opinion.
While the dollar number for the swap won't be known until after, if ever, the Council asks for proposals, but $50,000,000 is probably close to the number, PLUS the swap station.
Seems to me we need to leap to the end of the story...if the swap takes place, the citizens of Dallas and Ft. Worth will continue to hear classical music 24 hours a day except for City Council meetings...the new signal is comparable to the current WRR signal...
Should the City be competing in the private sector? That's for some debate...WRR currently performs under the pace of most classical stations...is it because WRR is owned by the City of Dallas...maybe, but WRR's performance is not up for debate here.
If the proposed swap took place, the LISTENER would be served with classical music and Arts News 24 hours a day...and if the City chooses, it can operate totaly commercial free...running on less that 1/2 the interest accrued by the Endowment Fund created by the swap.
It always interests me when folks start criticising the people (Salem, etc) involved, rather than focusing on the issue itself.
Just one man's opinion.
K
klifhanger
Guest
"It always interests me when folks start criticising the people (Salem, etc) involved, rather than focusing on the issue itself."
It is because of the nature of those involved(salem,KVTT they become part of the issue.) TRUST is earned,they have not earned it based on past dealings with others here in this market and outside. For Salem look at the WFIL in Philadelphia deal as well as KRLA in Los Angeles. LOOK deep beyond the official PR press release. KVTT-Power FM split. The shaft swung well.
WRR has managed this well for so long. Why fix it when it ain't broke? Answer: Greed from outsiders. Greed from consultants getting a slice of the pie.
Hey Grant-GOOD ONE!
It is because of the nature of those involved(salem,KVTT they become part of the issue.) TRUST is earned,they have not earned it based on past dealings with others here in this market and outside. For Salem look at the WFIL in Philadelphia deal as well as KRLA in Los Angeles. LOOK deep beyond the official PR press release. KVTT-Power FM split. The shaft swung well.
WRR has managed this well for so long. Why fix it when it ain't broke? Answer: Greed from outsiders. Greed from consultants getting a slice of the pie.
Hey Grant-GOOD ONE!
M
MartinGG
Guest
"Why fix it if it ain't broke?" The horse and buggy weren't broken either, but cars certainly became a better way to move around.
Is WRR broke? Not up to me to decide that, but if a better idea comes along, why not at least debate it and consider the "facts" rather than comment about folks involved.
Any and all proposals will have to face the scrutiny of City Council and 5 billion lawyers....and to those who close their ears, eyes, and mouths and just respond "don't fix it if it ain't broke"...be careful of inciting a debate whether it IS broke....compared to anything you'd like.
The taxpayer of Dallas is supporting this station...and the valid and fair question to ask is "is there a better way?" Remember, No ONE is suggesting the City sell WRR aand get out of the radio business.
My humble opinion is , yes, there is a better way to go, or at the very least, to consider.
Is WRR broke? Not up to me to decide that, but if a better idea comes along, why not at least debate it and consider the "facts" rather than comment about folks involved.
Any and all proposals will have to face the scrutiny of City Council and 5 billion lawyers....and to those who close their ears, eyes, and mouths and just respond "don't fix it if it ain't broke"...be careful of inciting a debate whether it IS broke....compared to anything you'd like.
The taxpayer of Dallas is supporting this station...and the valid and fair question to ask is "is there a better way?" Remember, No ONE is suggesting the City sell WRR aand get out of the radio business.
My humble opinion is , yes, there is a better way to go, or at the very least, to consider.
Would you mind a comment from someone on the East Coast?
Philly lost its commercial classical station in 1997, and things have never been the same. Temple U's WRTI, which had been full-time jazz, went to a split format with classical 6 AM-6PM and limited daytime weekend hours, but that doesn't really fill the need.
I'm not philosophically opposed to a city owning a station, but I don't think it's a very safe long-term bet, given the current political climate in this country. Could I suggest that you look at the Seattle model?
KING-FM was a privately owned commercial classical station until 1994, when the Bullitt sisters decided to sell off their family's local communications empire. In order to preserve full-time classical in Seattle, they established a non-profit corporation to operate KING-FM and channel its profits to local arts organizations.
And it works. If there were only some way to spin off WRR to a similar non-profit!
From 2000 to 2004 there were bills in Congress to give a commercial station owner a tax credit plus bonus for donating a station to such a non-profit, but it never went anywhere. Of course, such a bill would need an alternate provision to reward a governmental body (which doesn't pay Federal taxes), but maybe some civic minded people in DFW could get some action on this issue. Think it's worth a try?
Philly lost its commercial classical station in 1997, and things have never been the same. Temple U's WRTI, which had been full-time jazz, went to a split format with classical 6 AM-6PM and limited daytime weekend hours, but that doesn't really fill the need.
I'm not philosophically opposed to a city owning a station, but I don't think it's a very safe long-term bet, given the current political climate in this country. Could I suggest that you look at the Seattle model?
KING-FM was a privately owned commercial classical station until 1994, when the Bullitt sisters decided to sell off their family's local communications empire. In order to preserve full-time classical in Seattle, they established a non-profit corporation to operate KING-FM and channel its profits to local arts organizations.
And it works. If there were only some way to spin off WRR to a similar non-profit!
From 2000 to 2004 there were bills in Congress to give a commercial station owner a tax credit plus bonus for donating a station to such a non-profit, but it never went anywhere. Of course, such a bill would need an alternate provision to reward a governmental body (which doesn't pay Federal taxes), but maybe some civic minded people in DFW could get some action on this issue. Think it's worth a try?
M
MartinGG
Guest
It is worth consideration...setting up a non-profit corporation to run WRR...actually, we now have a non-profit runnng WRR, the City of Dallas I(a joke...settle down.)
To put things in to some context here, on an average qtr basis, based on a recent book, 98.1% of the folks living in Dallas Fort Worth ARE NOT listening to WRR...probably worse if you were able to isolate just the good old taxpayers of the City of Dallas (whose taxes support the station) as WRR's strongest zips have been in Plano and east Ft. Worth.
Just something else to think about.
To put things in to some context here, on an average qtr basis, based on a recent book, 98.1% of the folks living in Dallas Fort Worth ARE NOT listening to WRR...probably worse if you were able to isolate just the good old taxpayers of the City of Dallas (whose taxes support the station) as WRR's strongest zips have been in Plano and east Ft. Worth.
Just something else to think about.
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
Some thoughts on this:
(1) There is nothing to stop a station on the commercial part of the dial from being operated as a non-comm. But once the swap is made, there will never again be the option to be a commercial station. Who knows at what point in the future musical tastes may change and classical become a very lucrative format. Not likely - now - but in 20 years - 50? Nobody knows. If it is stuck as a non-comm then, revenue would be lost.
(2) The signals are NOT equal. The KVTT signal is a MONSTER - I remember good reception 50 miles the other side of Shreveport when I moved here. Similar ranges in other directions. The WRR signal is not nearly as good.
(3) Somehow, I missed the discussion about the KVTT / Power FM split. The last time I met Tom Dooley, he was all for the Christian rock format on Power FM. Something must have changed. There are those in the Christian community to this day that absolutely DESPISE Christian rock / contemporary - whatever. They are irrational, dogmatic, and in some cases literally violent about it. Now - put SECULAR music - even classical - into the swap, and WRR could be in serious trouble. Christian "ministries" devoted to wiping Christian contemporary and Christian rock off the airwaves have used extremely devious, unethical, and borderline illegal methods to achieve their goals. Given that some opera lyrics are pretty - um - spicy - these folks will be BAD NEWS and do whatever it takes to wipe out WRR.
(4) Would it be swapping frequencies - or swapping facilities? There is a big difference between the two. Swapping facilities would be a disaster.
I wouldn't recommend the swap.
(1) There is nothing to stop a station on the commercial part of the dial from being operated as a non-comm. But once the swap is made, there will never again be the option to be a commercial station. Who knows at what point in the future musical tastes may change and classical become a very lucrative format. Not likely - now - but in 20 years - 50? Nobody knows. If it is stuck as a non-comm then, revenue would be lost.
(2) The signals are NOT equal. The KVTT signal is a MONSTER - I remember good reception 50 miles the other side of Shreveport when I moved here. Similar ranges in other directions. The WRR signal is not nearly as good.
(3) Somehow, I missed the discussion about the KVTT / Power FM split. The last time I met Tom Dooley, he was all for the Christian rock format on Power FM. Something must have changed. There are those in the Christian community to this day that absolutely DESPISE Christian rock / contemporary - whatever. They are irrational, dogmatic, and in some cases literally violent about it. Now - put SECULAR music - even classical - into the swap, and WRR could be in serious trouble. Christian "ministries" devoted to wiping Christian contemporary and Christian rock off the airwaves have used extremely devious, unethical, and borderline illegal methods to achieve their goals. Given that some opera lyrics are pretty - um - spicy - these folks will be BAD NEWS and do whatever it takes to wipe out WRR.
(4) Would it be swapping frequencies - or swapping facilities? There is a big difference between the two. Swapping facilities would be a disaster.
I wouldn't recommend the swap.
K
klifhanger
Guest
Considering the current politcal climate,its still a bad idea to swap. "98% don't listen to WRR?" 98 % don't listen to WBAP,KRLD,KLUV,KPLX,KKDA either . Thie listening times are divided up. The Tax money you bring up (as most business folks like to do) is actually doing GOOD keeping WRR around,plus the public service sector (police,fire,streets) are still functioning well. Tax money well spent,a rarity. WRR's freq has a pair of Salem eyes salivating it,using KVTT as a pawn,and (as Salem has been shown to do) in a few years get the KVTT freq . if the swap went through. Yeah the horse and buggy was replaced ,but with the latest gas prices some folks probably desire to have them back. The same could hold true if the swap for WRR were made.
Tax money? What tax money? WRR returns more than 400,000 dollars a year to the city of Dallas. It used to be more, before uncertainty about the fate of the commercial nature of the station crippled it.
And what's this in a previous post about educational channels 'billing' 6 million dollars. How can a non commercial 'bill'? The fcc has been lax about those underwriting messages, but one day they will crack down, and the underwriting 'commercials' won't be a reliable source of operating income.
Listeners don't want to hear commercials? Can they be worse than pledge drive breaks?
KVTT is not a superior channel. WRR can be heard from the Red River to Waco consistently, and often beyond.
As a commercial, rated station, WRR is under pressure to provide the best and most listenable programming. I think it makes them a better station.
Then there's the argument at the root of all this...that a city shouldn't be allowed to compete with private enterprise. That's the trump card the commercial interests are using to drive this whole process. BAH! One day your Karma will run over your Dogma.
Bottom line... this deal will not go down.
g
ps- the processing is still bad. No high end.
And what's this in a previous post about educational channels 'billing' 6 million dollars. How can a non commercial 'bill'? The fcc has been lax about those underwriting messages, but one day they will crack down, and the underwriting 'commercials' won't be a reliable source of operating income.
Listeners don't want to hear commercials? Can they be worse than pledge drive breaks?
KVTT is not a superior channel. WRR can be heard from the Red River to Waco consistently, and often beyond.
As a commercial, rated station, WRR is under pressure to provide the best and most listenable programming. I think it makes them a better station.
Then there's the argument at the root of all this...that a city shouldn't be allowed to compete with private enterprise. That's the trump card the commercial interests are using to drive this whole process. BAH! One day your Karma will run over your Dogma.
Bottom line... this deal will not go down.
g
ps- the processing is still bad. No high end.
I know that WRR makes money. But so does KING-FM, more in fact. But KING-FM is secure, because its charter allows representatives of arts organizations on its board, but no on organization controls it. And it's legally "booby-trapped" so that the board members and the organizations they represent can't profit from selling it in a pinch (even if enough of them agreed to sell it and split the proceeds, they can't).
This gives it a stability that the threat of political upheaval denises to WRR. That's why it can operae more effectively. Everybody knows it's not going away.
This gives it a stability that the threat of political upheaval denises to WRR. That's why it can operae more effectively. Everybody knows it's not going away.
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