What's your opinion? CC v/s CBS in CLE.......

[scottvoicedude]

While there are obviously a multitude of factors in play.....

Do you think it's finally time to say for CERTAIN that a MAJOR contributor to CC's FM's trending down over the past 18 months....(Mix and Majic specifically)

Is due to less "live&local" programming? In other words....all the horrible things said about CC.

Are Q's obvious gains and strongest market position in a decade......and NCX's and DOK's ability to remain solid.

A DIRECT result of (among other things) actually answering the phone?

For a long time because of ratings fluctuations.....you just couldn't say it was THE reason.

But....Mix and Majic are HURTING....with money demo ratings in never before seen (LOW) areas.

And after working full time for CC since 2000....and now part time at Q and DOK since T-Giving........I am amazed at the way listeners claim ownership of Q specifically.

It's like everyone who ever called a radio station.......has finally figured it out.....and migrated to CBS.

Maybe it's because I never really saw radio-stations run in this manner...

Again.....clearly there are several factors at play......

Thoughts?

 

[crn97]

Having left CBS in Cleveland to take a Clear Channel position in another city, I have to make similar observations. It is amazing to me that I am doing a LIVE morning show, yet there is little to no interaction with listeners. I went from two great stations, one which was very listener involved to a station that only deals with listeners if they want to wish someone a happy birthday or to generically win a prize. Which by the way, the clocks are so predictable that listeners are already calling in before we have even said what the prize is. To me, something is wrong with that. No variety or spontaneity...boring!! CBS cares way more about their listeners, yeah they are still in it to make money, but they haven't lost what is important. CC obviously lost that along time ago and in more than one market.

Frustrating!!

 

[VODood]

While there are obviously a multitude of factors in play.....

Do you think it's finally time to say for CERTAIN that a MAJOR contributor to CC's FM's trending down over the past 18 months....(Mix and Majic specifically)

Is due to less "live&local" programming? In other words....all the horrible things said about CC.

Are Q's obvious gains and strongest market position in a decade......and NCX's and DOK's ability to remain solid.

A DIRECT result of (among other things) actually answering the phone?

For a long time because of ratings fluctuations.....you just couldn't say it was THE reason.

But....Mix and Majic are HURTING....with money demo ratings in never before seen (LOW) areas.

And after working full time for CC since 2000....and now part time at Q and DOK since T-Giving........I am amazed at the way listeners claim ownership of Q specifically.

It's like everyone who ever called a radio station.......has finally figured it out.....and migrated to CBS.

Maybe it's because I never really saw radio-stations run in this manner...

Again.....clearly there are several factors at play......

Thoughts?

Hey Scott (G?)

MIX has been a joke for years. WMJI's issue, the music. Other than Lanigan, who is still doing quite well, the music has changed fairly dramatically in recent years, add to that at least 3-4 dead segs an hour, plus no "sparkle' to the station.

WMJI, more than any other in the market, was always a personality driven station, with big/fun imaging and promotions. And, lots of calls to bring Cleveland listeners into the radio station and over the air.

WMJI needs to bring back the Cash Bribe Oldie as well. Hasn't had it for a few years. And not the national collective version, but the version that Gorman started in the early 90s. $105 per day, seven days a week, $5000 grand a few times each book.

First and foremost, the music is too wide. Re-center the station and play more 60s titles. WOMC/Detroit has done this recently and the station sounds great! And then either let the air TALENT be just that, or get new talent that knows how to do it.

Hell, re-hire names that were once on WMJI in it's "heyday" that are still in the area. Luther Heggs for one. Even if he's VT'd, it's a name the WMJI core knows and likes. Scott Howitt is another. In fact, I'd hire Scott back fulltime for PM drive. Metheny won't do this to "protect" Triv, b/c Scott has pure talent and can kick Triv's a$$ any day.


I'll give WQAL PD Dave Popovich some props here as well. He's been in Cleveland radio over 20 years going back to the 80s, originally with WMJI. He's programmed former WLTF (now WMVX)....for one hell of a run, WDOK, WMVX briefly, WMJI again, and now WQAL. He knows the market well. Knows the flaws of CC Cleveland and how to exploit what they're doing...and not doing...well. Especially WMVX, Q104's direct competitor.

I do disagree with some things Dave did while at WMJI, first and foremost taking many of the rock songs off Majic. That was a bad move.

WDOK competes with WMJI more than any other. Again, Dave P programmed WDOK quite successfully. I'm sure he's "in the mix" so to speak now that Scott Miller is no longer PD.

WMJI NEEDS a programmer that understands the core audience, and not just what CC wants to target.

"Oldies" is NOT a 25-54 format. It's 35-64. And no you CANNOT young up the listener base.

Same goes for classic rock. Oldies and CR target the same demos. Classic rock is in for a rude awakening....and very soon.

Anyway...WMJI needs structure and direction, and it won't come from anyone presently inside Oak Tree.

Oldies isn't over...not in Cleveland. But it will be if not properly taken care of, and soon.

 

[VODood]

Having left CBS in Cleveland to take a Clear Channel position in another city, I have to make similar observations. It is amazing to me that I am doing a LIVE morning show, yet there is little to no interaction with listeners. I went from two great stations, one which was very listener involved to a station that only deals with listeners if they want to wish someone a happy birthday or to generically win a prize. Which by the way, the clocks are so predictable that listeners are already calling in before we have even said what the prize is. To me, something is wrong with that. No variety or spontaneity...boring!! CBS cares way more about their listeners, yeah they are still in it to make money, but they haven't lost what is important. CC obviously lost that along time ago and in more than one market.

Frustrating!!

Dan Mason Sr gets it. And it's starting to show. He brought oldies back to WCBS, brought back KFRC, and WOMC Detroit sounds more focused of late, with more 60s than 70s - and NO 80s.

 

[stratace05]

If only WMJI still had Max Heywood and the legend, Denny Sanders. I miss hearing those voices on Cleveland radio and I believe contributed to WMJI. Majic needs to bring back some personalities and interact with listeners more!

 

[jessejames44]

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

 

[ilikecake]

When I met a now very good friend of mine years ago, she found out that I used to work at Q. She on numerous times talked about Q104 as "MY radio station," and she said it without thinking about, and this was back in 2003. To this day, this friend still talks about it as HER radio staiton. She's 30 years old... right in the demo.

I think that speaks for itself.

 

[JNight]

WMJI should consider bringing back Mr. Music Norm Nite to host a 50's and early 60's show on Saturday or Sunday evening's like he use to years ago. I enjoyed listening to that show, especially when Norm had a guest from the past on like Dick Clark, or Leslie Gore, Dion, and the listeners had a chance to call in and ask them questions. Could you imagine a line up at MAGIC with those that still live in the Cleveland area like Denny Sanders, Scott Howitt, Larry Morrow, Bob Friend, Norm Nite, Ted Alexander, and Billy Bass...WOW, there would be some great numbers for WMJI. Real Talent with Real Music and let them play what they want!!!

 

[VODood]

If only WMJI still had Max Heywood and the legend, Denny Sanders. I miss hearing those voices on Cleveland radio and I believe contributed to WMJI. Majic needs to bring back some personalities and interact with listeners more!

Heywood??? Aka "Wheezer"...R u kidding me? Did u know he invented voicetracking? Ask him, he'll tell you!

Denny would be great, as well as The Scottster, Daune (in a bigger role than she has now), Luther, Norm....

Not Heywood, Bass or Friend. Friend was part-time...and really shouldn't have been on the air anymore. Nice guy...just past his due date.

If Metheny exteneded the olive branch to Denny and others..perhaps they'd do a reunion weekend, much like the old WIXY weekends? I doubt that would happen.

Larry Morrow never worked at WMJI, but he's a big name and would sound great.

 

[YEKIMI]

I always got the impression when listening to Max Heywood that it was just more then he could bear to have to talk to listeners and take their requests. I never heard anyone sound more impatient with callers, like it was an absolute chore to even have to answer the telephone. I got the feeling that some of these callers were lonely old people warehoused away in a nursing home somewhere and calling the station and requesting a song they remembered from their better days AND the fact that he was probably the only human they may have talked to that entire day. Then, on the other hand, you could tell a few of the callers may have been on their second 12 pack of the day!

 

[OhReally?]

While there are obviously a multitude of factors in play.....

Do you think it's finally time to say for CERTAIN that a MAJOR contributor to CC's FM's trending down over the past 18 months....(Mix and Majic specifically)

Is due to less "live&local" programming? In other words....all the horrible things said about CC.

Are Q's obvious gains and strongest market position in a decade......and NCX's and DOK's ability to remain solid.

A DIRECT result of (among other things) actually answering the phone?

For a long time because of ratings fluctuations.....you just couldn't say it was THE reason.

But....Mix and Majic are HURTING....with money demo ratings in never before seen (LOW) areas.

And after working full time for CC since 2000....and now part time at Q and DOK since T-Giving........I am amazed at the way listeners claim ownership of Q specifically.

It's like everyone who ever called a radio station.......has finally figured it out.....and migrated to CBS.

Maybe it's because I never really saw radio-stations run in this manner...

Again.....clearly there are several factors at play......

Thoughts?

Scott...first of all, you don't know me, but congrats on bouncing back in town at CBS. I think you nailed several factors right on the head. I have always been impressed what Dave P. has done since being hired at Q. He's really taken that station in the direction it was lacking for many years. I am also quite impressed how CBS actually lets their PD's program. The personalities at 'QAL are actually allowed to be personalities and I can tell listeners love it. IMO, those are some of the key factors that put Q back on track -- and so quickly.

I can't speak for 'MJI because I am not their demo, but as far as MIX, I think that station has been a throwaway for CC for almost a decade. Their recent decision to robo-backannounce songs (and not always the correct one ) was the 'nail in the coffin' so-to-speak. I also find it quite insulting to the listener that every song is back-announced. For the life of me, I can not understand the logic behind that. If it's because research is telling them so ("I don't know the name/artist of that song I've been hearing since it was released in 1982..." ), then I question what demographic they're 'researching.' I recently saw a MIX billboard (IIRC along I-480) that said something along the lines of 'playing all kinds of music'.

WTF?! Is THAT what they've resorted to?

What CC and other stations tried to do years ago -- and thought they could get away with -- has come full circle. And it's biting them BIG TIME, while doing considerable damage along the way. While some demo's might not care about the VT, the demo of the stations dragging down CC the most do. I am convinced they're just feeding audio on 106.5 until they are able to unload some of their stations to make the changes they want to.

That's my 1.15 cents (loss of value due to the weakening dollar. )

 

[scottvoicedude]

Max Heywood......What an old-school-dude.

I remember him telling me he would urinate in the office plants outside the studio.

Simply beacuse it was "Closer".

You can't deny that it's people like him that make this business "Interesting".

 

[VODood]

Max Heywood......What an old-school-dude.

I remember him telling me he would urinate in the office plants outside the studio.

Simply beacuse it was "Closer".

You can't deny that it's people like him that make this business "Interesting".

Scott, have you talked to doc de pollo lately?

 

[wwes]

Re: WMJI - I think they're right on target!
OK...Maybe more 80's tunes...and more v/t's!
Bill
www.SundayOldiesJukebox.com

 

[VODood]

Re: WMJI - I think they're right on target!
OK...Maybe more 80's tunes...and more v/t's!
Bill
www.SundayOldiesJukebox.com

Uncle Bill you would say that LOL! I'm sure you want MJI to keep playing the crap they are, lol

 

[HHH]

I'm sorry, but Popovich was not the right guy for WMJI.

When Denny Sanders left in 2001, the contrast was never greater. Pre-2001, the station played lots of rock and roll oldies, regional hits and market-specific AOR crossovers. The production was great. Even promos sounded full of fun and humor. Lots of little crazy touches and wild stuff. Like when Scott Howitt broadcast his show live from Cancun Mexico, Denny had the top-of-the-hour cut in Spanish! Then, Lou "King" Kirby (who lives in Cancun) was invited to join Scott for the afternoon. Great radio. Lanigan from Hong Kong, and later from London (with musical guests). Christmas rock and roll that went deep, and a staff of real pros on the air all sounding great. Lots of phones. Lots of fun.

Popovich took over, and suddenly the music was toned down to where he seemed to be trying to make a sort of WDOK-ish oldies station. Gone was the emphasis on hot rockin' stuff, replaced by more and more Kenny Rogers and Air Supply. Yuck. No more remotes. Jocks cut down to mechanical voice tracks. Promos all reduced to dull script with background music. Christmas programming was reduced to a cheap syndicated package that ran Christmas eve and day which featured Soft Rock crap like Christmas songs done by Kenny G and Whitney Houston. Within a year, the numbers fell to their lowest ever.

After Popovich left, MJI rebounded a bit, but never recaptured their lead in midday, afternoon drive and weekends that they had under Gorman and later Sanders.

I doubt if Metheny would "extend an olive branch to Denny" and others to come back for a reunion. Plus I don't think that Denny would be interested. He left on top, and Metheny was never one to acknowledge his stations' historical backgrounds. It is the 40th Anniversary of WMMS this year, and I'll bet that he does absolutely nothing that involves any classic personalities.

 

[VODood]

I'm sorry, but Popovich was not the right guy for WMJI.

When Denny Sanders left in 2001, the contrast was never greater. Pre-2001, the station played lots of rock and roll oldies, regional hits and market-specific AOR crossovers. The production was great. Even promos sounded full of fun and humor. Lots of little crazy touches and wild stuff. Like when Scott Howitt broadcast his show live from Cancun Mexico, Denny had the top-of-the-hour cut in Spanish! Then, Lou "King" Kirby (who lives in Cancun) was invited to join Scott for the afternoon. Great radio. Lanigan from Hong Kong, and later from London (with musical guests). Christmas rock and roll that went deep, and a staff of real pros on the air all sounding great. Lots of phones. Lots of fun.

Popovich took over, and suddenly the music was toned down to where he seemed to be trying to make a sort of WDOK-ish oldies station. Gone was the emphasis on hot rockin' stuff, replaced by more and more Kenny Rogers and Air Supply. Yuck. No more remotes. Jocks cut down to mechanical voice tracks. Promos all reduced to dull script with background music. Christmas programming was reduced to a cheap syndicated package that ran Christmas eve and day which featured Soft Rock crap like Christmas songs done by Kenny G and Whitney Houston. Within a year, the numbers fell to their lowest ever.

After Popovich left, MJI rebounded a bit, but never recaptured their lead in midday, afternoon drive and weekends that they had under Gorman and later Sanders.

I doubt if Metheny would "extend an olive branch to Denny" and others to come back for a reunion. Plus I don't think that Denny would be interested. He left on top, and Metheny was never one to acknowledge his stations' historical backgrounds. It is the 40th Anniversary of WMMS this year, and I'll bet that he does absolutely nothing that involves any classic personalities.

I like Dave. Talked to him now and then when I was in Raleigh at WTRG. In fact, we did a 50s/60s show called "At the Hop". All pre-63 (Top 5 P25-54!). He liked the idea and borrowed it for the Sunday jukebox show he had Max Vt. Wasn't as deep. Later it was cancelled after Dave left.

Dave did increase female numbers on WMJI. And afterall he's an "AC guy". Not a CHR/Top 40 guy, which is how WMJI was presented for so long, ala WIXY.

I was there when Spanish TOH was cut. I was there for many of the great promos produced by Mitch (written by Gorman), and later when Doc, myself and Bryan Radabaugh would "f*ck off" and write stuff by happenstance.

Many of those promo ideas went to Raleigh with me. I even re-created some. Why not...just ripping off my own work.

WMJI had a big creative spark between 94-99.

I will say that TR Rezney took WMJI imaging to new heights when he took over late 99 (I went to WMMS/MIX/Kiss, Doc became Lanigan's producer). TR added more zip and a HOT AC feel. Sounded big.

However, I think the promos still lacked some comedy. Promos were voiced by Doc, whereas TR had Bumper Morgan do them. Lost a little something. Bumper was also on the ID's. I've always been a fan of a different voice for promos and IDs. That is...if you can afford it.

Hear a great promo from Doc from the 1997 WMJI/WIXY weekend here....Also JR Nelson* on some stuff.

www.chuckmatthewsvoice.com/downloads/misc


JR was recently released from oldies WOMC/Detroit