WHEN OVER THE AIR RADIO BECOMES OBSOLETE

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

ADGUY :A rare moment, I agree with you. When the majority of vehicles go wireless,what will be the corps excuse then or as "the resident I know more" spin? Radio needs to get out of its asemblyline brand blandness and start connectiong with people again,not just selected research groups. Buying rates is like OIL somes seasons they gouge you.

 

[Steve Eberhart]

If you don't agree with ADguy, do this little test. Go find airchecks from 20-30 years ago. You'll find agency commercials for all kinds of national advertising. Listen today, half or more of them do not use radio at all. Why? Because they can get a better return on investment in other vehicles (forms of advertising).

 

[TheLaffer]

If you don't agree with ADguy, do this little test. Go find airchecks from 20-30 years ago. You'll find agency commercials for all kinds of national advertising. Listen today, half or more of them do not use radio at all. Why? Because they can get a better return on investment in other vehicles (forms of advertising).

What's new today compared to 20-30 years ago? Internet is the only thing i can think of. Just like 30 years ago we have Billboards, Cable, TV, Magazines, Movies, Etc.

I think it goes deeper than just "Other forms of advertising".

 

[newsmark]

I don't know what you've been smokin', but broadcast is becoming increasingly inefficient on a CPM basis everyday.

I think radio time is doomed to become much less effective. Right now, during drive time, you can tune around for several minutes without finding music. One station, in one of their key time periods, has a *10 minute* break daily. (Yeah, they'll tell you it's really two five minute breaks, separated by a quick "goodbye" from a program host, but that really only serves to break up the spots.)

It's no wonder people are willing to shell out the cash every month for satellite. Of course, the radio stations can't have that second revenue stream, but if they keep adding spots, each spot will be worth less. A LOT less.

 

[TexasTom]

I don't know what you've been smokin', but broadcast is becoming increasingly inefficient on a CPM basis everyday.

I think radio time is doomed to become much less effective. Right now, during drive time, you can tune around for several minutes without finding music. One station, in one of their key time periods, has a *10 minute* break daily.

All of this assumes that the status quo today is somehow a permanent situation.

I don't believe that OTA radio is obsolete, or will ever be obsolete. That doesn't mean, however, that the majority of current station owners may not eventually be forced to leave the business due to financial pressures. It doesn't mean that ad rates won't eventually have to drop substantially, or that commercial loads won't have to adjust to reflect a different competitive environment.

When the dust settles, OTA radio may be less profitable in the future than it was in the recent past. Station valuations may drop dramatically. Most of the big radio groups may no longer exist. But *someone* will still be interested in buying these stations, and some of those new owners will find ways of programming these stations that will appeal to enough listeners and advertisers that they can pay their bills and make a modest profit.

 

[dfwtalkradionut]

When the dust settles, OTA radio may be less profitable in the future than it was in the recent past. Station valuations may drop dramatically. Most of the big radio groups may no longer exist. But *someone* will still be interested in buying these stations, and some of those new owners will find ways of programming these stations that will appeal to enough listeners and advertisers that they can pay their bills and make a modest profit.

I agree. There is always new technology coming out, seems like every year. But we always come back to the basics. What is happening now is not the end all to anything. OTA will be around for future generations in the decades to come. Someone will continue to find a way to profit from it and make it work.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

If you think KLAK and KOOI have "a bit of an edge" to them, is your basis of comparison watching "Lawrence Welk" reruns on KERA-TV with your grandmother before going to the bingo parlor with her and

By "edge" - I meant they are not polished. Little mistakes go out on the air from time to time. Makes them sound more human.

There is also that elusive localism you can't get from some guy doing his gigs from a satellite in New York trying to sound local.

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

You got it Bruce. When a listener knows his/her station is not responding to them locally,they seek other sources that will.

The CONsultant(s) won't agree.

 

[davideduardo]

You got it Bruce. When a listener knows his/her station is not responding to them locally,they seek other sources that will.

The CONsultant(s) won't agree.

Yes they will. The difference is that "local" truly means "appealing to listeners in the local makret." It does not mean broadcasting the school board meetings or doing shout-outs for Denton or Krum.

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

You lost it. Denton hasn't had a radio station since KDNT folded, and THEY DID the school Board meetings as well as KRUM's .KNTU (UNT) is the closest thing to serving the LOCAL communities in the area. No CONsultant(s) don't get it, they spin loose information and try to spit it out as fact. All that comes out is saliva for some gullible owner to accept . Regretably there is a lot of them.

 

[davideduardo]

You lost it. Denton hasn't had a radio station since KDNT folded, and THEY DID the school Board meetings as well as KRUM's .KNTU (UNT) is the closest thing to serving the LOCAL communities in the area. No CONsultant(s) don't get it, they spin loose information and try to spit it out as fact. All that comes out is saliva for some gullible owner to accept . Regretably there is a lot of them.

Last I checked, the two towns I mentioned were part of the Dallas market. Localism in a metropolitan area is of necessity limited to reflecting the common interests of the primary coverage area. That is the definition of localism today where small AMs serving portions of a market can not survive except in very rare circumstances (even you admit tht KDNT failed, despite that localism).

The coverage area of nearly all the FMs licensed to the Metroplex includes hunreds of communities, towns and cities. There are 10 whole counties in the metro, and 68 AM and FM stations (82 with the non-coms).

Again, localism at this level in a metro made up of interlocking towns and cities is fundamentally and smply "appealing to local residents." The only thing that makes one town different from another relates to trash collection and other town-specific services, none of which are of interest anywhere else in the metro. A station in a small market with no surrounding towns in the coverage area can and should deal with such local subjects; one in a big metro is going to "turn off" 95% or more of the listeners by being so town-specific.

In other words, if Delilah or Rush are broadly appealing in a market, then they have "local appeal" and they pass the localism test. Talking to individual listeners verifies this.

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

Repeating ..YOU lOST it. KDNT did not fail..Mel Wheeler sold it to some 'Spanish" group. KDNT was making a profit,WAS successful in LOCAL COVERAGE. Mel wanted to retire to Virginia and the family was not interested in retaining KDNT. KDNT failed when it went spanish,and the plug was pulled.Your definition of LOCALism conflicts with what is regarded as LOCALISM by the public at large,and broadcasters who are broadcasters,not DESKjockeys.

You sure like to argue on this and other boards a lot. Its okay for you to be wrong,and in this case you are. sayonara.

 

[davideduardo]

Repeating ..YOU lOST it. KDNT did not fail..Mel Wheeler sold it to some 'Spanish" group.

First, Mark Rodrigues is not Spanish. He is American.

And when the station was sold, which was a very long time ago, we were, as an industry, at the very end of when a limited overage AM in a metro market could carve out a niche.

KDNT was making a profit,WAS successful in LOCAL COVERAGE.

I think you are mistaken as to profitability, also. I saw old financials, and was not impressed. The station barely paid the owner's slaary and perks.

Mel wanted to retire to Virginia and the family was not interested in retaining KDNT. KDNT failed when it went spanish,and the plug was pulled.Your definition of LOCALism conflicts with what is regarded as LOCALISM by the public at large,and broadcasters who are broadcasters,not DESKjockeys.

I think the ocncept of localism has changed since the time when AMs had the bulk of listening. KLIF and KXOL were in different markets... today, neither of those signals can survive on anything but ultra-nice programming.

FYI, Mark Rodriguz (and his father, Marcos) were firm believers in localsm, as demonstrated by the comunity based programming on their first FM... the real issue then was that the Hispanic ocmmunity was too small when they started and could not sustain the business model of either station. In the case of KDNT, the "local community" had been swallowed by urban expansion and FM had eaten AM's potential.

 

[Musicradio]

"No station that plays Neil Diamond/"You Don't Bring Me Flowers," Billy Joel/"Just The Way You Are," Celine Dion/"Because You Loved Me," and Dionne Warwick/"That's What Friends Are For" during the same hour"

Had to laugh at this comment.
And I'm glad you're not my PD.

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

Marcos and Son are Spanish,Hispanic,however you want to spin it. Fact is( and you conviently skipped over it) They sank KDNT faster than a lead weight in a swimming pool. As far as their comitment to localism, it lasted a very very short time.(6 months) An FM station ran by a small computer,with only Beatles playing,no Public affairs,news or weather is not localism,deskjockey.

 

[Robert Bass]

Marcos and Son are Spanish,Hispanic,however you want to spin it. Fact is( and you conviently skipped over it) They sank KDNT faster than a lead weight in a swimming pool. As far as their comitment to localism, it lasted a very very short time.(6 months) An FM station ran by a small computer,with only Beatles playing,no Public affairs,news or weather is not localism,deskjockey.

Agreed!

R

 

[davideduardo]

Marcos and Son are Spanish,Hispanic

"Spanish" is someone from Spain; Mark is American, Marcos was of Cuban birth and a US Citizen. "Hispanic" is a culture that includes many nationalities, all races and a variety of ethnicities. For someone in a market that is nearly 25% Hispanic, you might try learning the nature of that huge community.

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

When you start learning what "localism" is rather than your own definition,then I'll consider your suggestion. When you actually KNOW a market (especially in North Texas) outside of your office in Calif.and quit deflecting the subject( KDNT failed under Marcos), then I will implement your suggestion. Until then ,you lost the discussion.Move on.

 

[davideduardo]

When you start learning what "localism" is rather than your own definition,then I'll consider your suggestion. When you actually KNOW a market (especially in North Texas) outside of your office in Calif.and quit deflecting the subject( KDNT failed under Marcos), then I will implement your suggestion. Until then ,you lost the discussion.Move on.

I see.

3102 Oak Lawn Avenue has been moved form Dallas to LA.

And the fact we have the #1 and #7 25-54 stations in Dallas would seem to indicate some market knowledge... Call Andy Lockridge over on Stemmons and ask him if I know the market or not.

 

[Steve Eberhart]

I have never been privvy to the financial statements of the former KDNT, but my general knowledge of their situation was that it never did that well. Ask the Wheelers if you want to know for certain.

One of the problems they always had was similar to the issues that have always plagued the city of Denton. It seems to try to be a "big city" and tends to ignore the fact that it isn't...yet (it IS growing).

As I understand it, the city has the responsibility of thousands of extra citizens from the two universitites without the tax base to support it. The people who do make their home there are given the burdon of supporting it. I can attest to that, having lived there for 12 years. It cost way more to live there than a similar small size town.

Difficult to say the least (they can't even keep the streets in repair!).

Almost the same with the radio station. It kept trying to be a big time radio station and never saw the real opportunity and potential, which was becoming a LOCAL station that offered DENTON people something they could not get anywhere else. It is a point missed by many smaller stations that rimshot major markets.

If you'd like an example of a station that does this better than any I've ever been associated, check out KBEC in Waxahachie. A station thats sole purpose is to serve the local listener. And by the way, the station is very successful in every respect. And I HAVE seen those financials!