When the 800-Pound Gorilla Leaves the Room

[cyberdad]

Thanks to pianoplayer for his post in my "Two-fer" thread to give us something new to think about. What...if anything...do you guys hear whenever a monster local signal goes off. I'm not talking about daytimers after sign off. I mean when the strong local signal that's supposed to be there goes dark. A few examples from my experience in my area northwest of Chicago.

560: With WIND off at night, KWTO usually is audible.
670: When WSCR is off at night because of maintenance or some other issue, R. Rebelde takes over
780: WBBM has an auxillary transmitter, but twice when I've found them to be off during daylight, WSGW, 790 from Saginaw, MI has been present. A mild surprise
1000: When WMVP goes off at night, XEOY is usually there
1160: During WJJD's life as a daytimer, if they went off...a weak WISN could be heard on 1150. They're now on 1130 with a big signal of their own.
1600: Semi-Local WMCW produced a good signal from about 15 miles away with only 500 watts. But when they went down, what I usually heard was KCRG (Cedar Rapids). This could be a case of daytime skywave.

So that's me posting again about AM as usual. But this topic works for FM as well. So let's hear about those, too!

 

[Sammi Brie]

I recently had a station go off the air in my area, KMIK (now KHEP) 1580. It is the only one of the Radio Disney stations that has been sold to not come back on air with other programming, largely because it is slashing its nighttime power from 50 to .095 kW and moving to the tower of another station. (The old transmitter facility had already seen one of the six towers fall thanks to a rusted anchor, and the other five were about to face the same fate on some rather valuable land.)

In its place has been a weak KBLA, practically untouched.

 

[mimo]

When 580 CFRA went off overnights during their power upgrade a few years ago, I was hearing WHP Harrisburg. I've never heard CIWW 1310 off so I don't know what would happen. When 1200 CFGO has gone off I've hard something out of Massachusettes (the formerly named rush 1200) and a clear WLIB 1190 and WPHT 1210...which I can sometimes hear on the G8, but not with any other radio.

 

[radioman148]

In the near north Chicago suburbs I've heard WSGW in place of WBBM. In fact I can hear WSGW when WBBM is on on Lake Shore Drive in certain spots. I also have heard Cuba in place of WSCR and XEOY when WMVP is off.
Also, sometimes under WMBI I hear KFAB during Critical hours.

 

[boombox4]

I recently had a station go off the air in my area, KMIK (now KHEP) 1580. It is the only one of the Radio Disney stations that has been sold to not come back on air with other programming, largely because it is slashing its nighttime power from 50 to .095 kW and moving to the tower of another station. (The old transmitter facility had already seen one of the six towers fall thanks to a rusted anchor, and the other five were about to face the same fate on some rather valuable land.).

Sort of sad. I remember KMIK pounding in periodically with pop music from 2012-2014 (when I had re-discovered DXing). Sounded pretty good on a FRG-7 or a Superadio.

 

[pianoplayer88key]

This is an interesting topic. Thanks for posting it cyberdad.

Locally here in San Diego, a few I can come up with on the AM side are...

620 - KTAR was a nightly regular before XESS came on, but does that not count?
910 - With KECR off, I've heard KGME and SF Bay Area at night, and XEAO Mexicali is possible in the daytime with a good radio+antenna outdoors.
1030 - KTWO used to be a regular here before XESDD signed on, but does that not count?
1040 - I've heard WHO a few times when semi-local KURS was off.
1130 - I've heard Prescott, AZ, Dinuba, CA, and CKWX from Vancouver, BC, with ultra-local KSDO off.
1170 - I usually hear San Jose when ultra-local KCBQ is off the air.
1210 - I heard Guymon, OK, when semi-local KPRZ was off the air.
1240 - not sure if this counts, but I heard KALY from Albuquerque under semi-local KNSN (it was KSON at the time) about 11-13 or so years ago, when KSON was running open-carrier.
1360 - don't know if this counts, but I've heard KPXQ from Phoenix area under my local KLSD around sunrise/sunset.
1470 -
1700 - have heard the Brownsville station with XEPE off.


I'd be especially interested in situations where a distant station is heard *at* the transmitter site at midday with the local off the air. For example, if a DXer could, what would he hear by hooking up the station's tower and using it as a receive antenna? What you'd hear at a Class A omni-50kW-fulltime site would especially be nice to know.

 

[schmave]

Here around Columbus, Ohio ...
* WTVN (610): WIP/Philadelphia and KCSP/Kansas City would be there. Philly is audible in some of WTVN's deep easterly nulls, and I have heard Kansas City in parts of western Ohio while WTVN is on night pattern.
* WVSG (820): It'd be WBAP. Posted in another thread that WBAP can be heard behind WVSG depending on where you are in relation to its night pattern that's steered heavily away from Dallas.
* WBNS (1460): I have heard a Spanish-language station and oldies when 1460 has been off, which is rare. Sometimes, even when it's been on. I think the Spanish-language station is from Indiana. Unsure about the oldies.

 

[davideduardo]

I'd be especially interested in situations where a distant station is heard *at* the transmitter site at midday with the local off the air. For example, if a DXer could, what would he hear by hooking up the station's tower and using it as a receive antenna? What you'd hear at a Class A omni-50kW-fulltime site would especially be nice to know.

I only did this once, but I hooked up an HQ 180 to my tower for HCRM1 (570 AM at Quito, Ecuador) at about 2 AM and got WMCA from New York.

 

[KeithE4]

1160: During WJJD's life as a daytimer, if they went off...a weak WISN could be heard on 1150. They're now on 1130 with a big signal of their own.

That was a long time ago. Didn't WISN move to 1130 sometime in the late '50s?

When I was in Chicago and WJJD was a daytimer, the only station I could receive at night was the one it was designed to protect: KSL Salt Lake City.

 

[joebtsflk1]

This is an interesting topic. Thanks for posting it cyberdad.


Locally here in San Diego, a few I can come up with on the AM side are...
(snip)
1040 - I've heard WHO a few times when semi-local KURS was off.
(snip)

There's an interesting concept: a Gospel station using the KURS calls. I swear it's going to be a hit! Sorry to have hijacked the thread.


Re: 1040, in central Iowa XEG 1050 Monterrey NL was a challenging catch unless WHO was off, which in the 70s happened very early Sunday morning at 12:05 or so, after TOH NBC news. To hear how that sounded back then, scroll to 7:15 in this mp3 http://www.desmoinesbroadcasting.com/audio-5/dmradio-signon-off.mp3, complete with very rare WHO chimes, just as I heard them in my '71 Datsun 1200.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

My cousin's boyfriend gave me an informal tour of the new UIC Campus around 1967, and somehow he mentioned listening to PBP of a local Saginaw Sports team, either Hockey or Football, on a Saginaw station at night near UIC where he lived there. Because of the local signal milieu including WBBM 780, it took me years to figure out that he was talking about WSGW 790. It was only after finding out that WSGW radiates the Class B equivalent of more than 10000 watts in that direction, and the odd interactions of signals with the taller apartment buildings near Lake Michigan, that I figured out what station he was talking about. Somewhere near there, I asked him about a self supporting tower near there that I saw. He said he thought it was WEFM's tower.

Also, when WJLB...WDTK 1400 Detroit goes off the air, WSAM 1400 in Saginaw has a surprisingly good signal near where I live. Many Class IVs that were once 250 watts have 0.5 mV/m signals that nearly overlap with 1000 watts. You can also get WSAM by nulling out WDTK when it is on the air, and simllarly where I used to live you could get WJLB 1400 by nulling out WSAM 1400. David, I remember telling Jesse Champion this after being confused when he said he had worked at WJLD 1400, then Homewood, AL, thinking he had said WJLB, and noting the similarity in call sign, frequency, and format. Only a few weeks later, he got the letter offering him a News position at WBRC 960 Birmingham, which he discusses in videos available on YouTube. On that letterhead, all the Taft stations were listed, including WGR 550 and WKRC 550, which I also noted could both be heard in the daytime by nulling the other one out.

And Rich, do you remember an orange neon sign for WKNX on a major road in Saginaw, with multiple neon tubes and the letters at least three feet high? I remember seeing it, but I was too young to know where we were. I would say it was on M-46. This was before they had completed I-75, and there were always major detours during the construction.

 

[frankberry]

The WKNX sign may well have been on M46 ... State Street. The studios were located on State Street.
I interviewed for my employment at WQYK-FM (Tampa) in the WKNX studios/offices. Bill Edwards was the owner of both stations.

 

[cyberdad]

That was a long time ago. Didn't WISN move to 1130 sometime in the late '50s?

When I was in Chicago and WJJD was a daytimer, the only station I could receive at night was the one it was designed to protect: KSL Salt Lake City.

WISN Moved in early 1965. I was in high school then. In fact, '64-'65 was the year I went to high school in Honolulu. When I left, WISN was tough daytime duty on 1150, and when I returned in was a blaster on 1130 (with beautiful music). Also while I was away, WOKY (Milwaukee top-40) increased day power from 1kw to 5kw. But the new day pattern did not increase signal strength at my location.

@Pianoplayer.... You can count whatever you want, as far as I'm concerned. You mentioned hearing KGYN at your location. I also heard them once around sunrise in San Diego. I think it was the Rancho Bernardo Inn, or another hotel in that general area. I don't think the local 1210 had come on the air yet. I think that particular visit was probably in the late 1980s or early 1990s.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

The WKNX sign may well have been on M46 ... State Street. The studios were located on State Street.
I interviewed for my employment at WQYK-FM (Tampa) in the WKNX studios/offices. Bill Edwards was the owner of both stations.

Thanks for your response, Frank. I think you are correct that it was on State Street. Did Davenport go the other direction? The more recent map I looked at shows it as M-58, but I thought it was called M-46 at the time, but the site Michigan Highways says it's been M-58 for a long time. There may have been a BR-46 designation at one time, if there was such a thing for State Routes.

Another person who may have interviewed at the WKNX Studios for a job elsewhere is Joe Wade Formicola, a DJ and PD who was at WFDF at the time, but went to work from there to KENR Houston, which at the time was owned by Lake Huron Broadcasting. That was after they sold WKNX-TV to Rust Craft though. Of course, by that time the Studios and Transmitter for WEYI Channel 25 had moved to Willard Rd. in Vienna Township, near Clio.

 

[frankberry]

WKNX, KENR and KRBE-FM were owned by Lake Huron Broadcasting ... a Bill Edwards corporation. (I visited KRBE-FM way back in 1977 .... It was a nice facility).
WQYK was owned by Suncoast Stereo Corporation ... also a Bill Edwards corporation.

 

[Ai4i]

In the nineteen-seventies, I had a longwire antenna between two buildings at UF, Gainesville, FL.
I was listening to WAPE (now WOKV) one day when they cut their carrier for an EBS test.
Perfect timing, during those few seconds, I heard a loud and clear jingle from "WTIX, New Orleans" (now WQNO).
Both stations were and are on 690.

In the wild, adult male gorillas weigh up to 400 Lbs.
Obese ones in captivity weigh up to 600 Lbs.
There are no 800 pound gorillas, and guerillas weigh even less.

 

[joebtsflk1]

ai4i, sounds like a nice saltwater haul for WTIX in Gainesville..

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

Here in Coal country PA there are two real nighttime 'locals'.
WPPA 1360 at night goes 500 watts directional south; WPAM 1450 is the standard-issue GYer, and WEEU 830 gets hammered after SSS by all manner of stations. So there are no gorillas here at night.
Heck -- one fine afternoon at around 2PM I got a wicked null on WPPA 1360 and heard a foreign-language station under them.
WPAM, WEEU and WPPA are not gorillas. I sort of miss those gorilla days.

JFK Airport-days DXing had twenty AM locals. The TOUGHEST to find off the air MMs -- prime teenaged/high school embezzlement DX time -- were WMCA 570 and WNEW 1130.
When 5000-watt WMCA was off, our little group heard Youngstown OH, Asheville NC and WPLP Florida. The latter might have been from some Aurora. Still, WMCA had to've been off.

When the 50,000 watt gorilla WNEW 1130 was off, there was a faint but enthusiastic WCAR from Detroit. And one night both WCAR and WNEW were off, and the wispy but playful WDGY Minneapolis was logged.
Never heard Louisiana on 1130, though.

 

[HGR1290]

I as well interviewed at WKNX sometime in the 70s.....but ended up in Georgia. Keeping on thread, I recall that when WKNX was on its 500w PSA early in the morning it often mixed with WAVI in Dayton. This is when I lived in Midland. Of course what was WCAU caused WKNX issues many mornings and afternoons as well.

If I recall the studios were at 5200 State Street.

 

[frankberry]

If I recall the studios were at 5200 State Street.

Correct! I now live in Midland. Back when 1210-WKNX was on the air, I lived in Tawas City.