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When Two Stations Interfere

I received a call from a friend in another part of the country. I'm not an engineer nor did I stay at Holiday Inn last night. She has a LPFM with another distant LPFM on the same frequency. Both stations meet the minimum separation spacing and then some. In recent weeks her signal has barely gone a mile from the before the distant LPFM begins to cut in. It is no tropo.

She asked me if she thought the distant LPFM had cranked up their power. She had contacted the FCC only to be told to work it out with the other LPFM. Since both stations have been on for months, this is a new 'problem'. She tried filing an informal complaint with some evidence of these thanks to cell phone. She offered audio, a gps and radio display to verify but the FCC wants her to work it out. I rather like that and understand that approach saves the FCC's meager funds. She's perplexed. A couple of the 4 or 5 Underwriters she has are asking what's up. A few listeners have asked as well.

I suggested she call her engineer, a guy who is known to the FCC fairly well, to take some field strength readings. I said third party verification would go a long way toward building her case. I suggested she take that data to the distant LPFM and if action was not taken, then try to involve the FCC, assuming the distant LPFM was indeed overpowering. I think they are. 25 to 27 miles from a negative HAAT is a long way to go with a stereo light on with 100 watts ERP.

I should add that she has eliminated her station as having any issues and verified she is operating at the power she is authorized. I asked about damage to the antenna and about the coax, connections and such, not just the transmitter. I asked about the health of the exciter, etc. She has a new transmitter that is only a few months old and the area has experienced no adverse weather (lightning strike, for example). Nothing had changed on the tower. She says everything on her end is perfect.

Do you think I advised her properly?

Have you any suggestions of how to handle this?
 
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Before doing anything else, she should make sure that her station is actually delivering the proper RF power to the transmitting antenna(s).
If a distant station is cutting in at a distance of one mile from her transmitter, I'm betting that her station has a problem.
 
Whether it's a technical issue from a pirate station, translator, or full-class station, I generally try to work things out with the offending signal owner before bringing the Commission into the matter. That, and remember LPFM stations and translators are not considered full class stations nor afforded the same protections as Class A-C stations. Just as with translator-to-translator interference issues, LP-to-LP interference issues, as you have experienced, are not much of a concern to the FCC, provided the two LP stations are built within the boundaries of their Construction Permit and license. The rule of thumb is LPFM stations will accept some form of interference from a co-channel or adjacent channel LPFM or translator.
 
I agree with all that is posted.

This does not involve pirates. This is two licensed LPFM stations.

She has had her station checked out by the engineer at a cluster in a nearby market. Her station seems fine. I immediately thought there was something wrong with her station. Since I'm in Texas and not there I have to go by what she said on the phone. She said her engineer had been out Saturday and took a good look at things. He didn't bring a Potomac with him likely because he felt the problem was likely her set up.

Both of the LPFMs have been around for several months with no interference from either. Several weeks ago, the LPFM about 30 miles away began overtaking her signal at about a mile from her tower. I know when you cram stations together like happened with the past filing window we can expect lots of this but I think a stereo signal from around 30 miles away at a negative HAAT seems to point toward exceeding 100 watts ERP, especially when both stations co-existed for several months without issues.

Are you thinking the FCC will just say to work it out with the other station if that station was fudging a bit on the ERP? I sort of think that would be the case...bigger fish to fry and the point they'd spend money and time to investigate.
 
To override her signal at a distance of one mile, the other LPFM station would need to be running thousands of watts.
I'm betting that her station has an issue with the RF system.
A signal strength meter will answer the question.
 
I would think it highly possible for the problem to be her. Just because the engineer comes out and gives it the once over doesn't mean he would catch everything. You are right the field strength meter would solve things once and for all.

Interestingly, it is not a day or night thing but 24/7.
 
Is this a constant thing or just evenings and mornings thing? Tropo is always an issue in these parts.

Yep, tropo (Mother Nature) can be a b**** :)

The FCC basically told that to Liberman 10+ years ago over an issue they complained about with one of their FMs in the LA area that was getting beat up by distant signals in tropo conditions.

All it takes is a 3db difference in signal strength for the capture effect to take hold. I have been looking at towers a mile or so away and had the FM signal off that stick clobbered by distant signals due to tropo...
 
I would think it highly possible for the problem to be her. Just because the engineer comes out and gives it the once over doesn't mean he would catch everything. You are right the field strength meter would solve things once and for all.

Interestingly, it is not a day or night thing but 24/7.

It appears that it is not tropo. It's 24/7.
 
I agree with all that is posted.

This does not involve pirates. This is two licensed LPFM stations.

I understood that, and wasn't claiming the dispute was between pirate stations. My point, that you didn't understand, was that I've found it's always better to work it out personally between the parties involved, rather than turning to the FCC as a default position. That, and the FCC doesn't really worry about enforcing interference concerns between 'secondary' stations like translators or LPFM's unless they are causing interference to a full-class station.

Are you thinking the FCC will just say to work it out with the other station if that station was fudging a bit on the ERP? I sort of think that would be the case...bigger fish to fry and the point they'd spend money and time to investigate.

If you can prove they are exceeding their licensed power or HAAT, then if they refuse to comply, you have some recourse I suppose. I agree with the others and make damn sure her LPFM is operating properly, before involving the Commission. The last thing she'll want to live with is getting the FCC involved, only to end up with egg on her metaphorical face.
 
You are absolutely right. The FCC is a last resort. I think I'll call her back for more details. For one, I know her signal went pretty nicely to the south, the opposite direction of the other LPFM. I'd like to know how the signal is going away from the other LPFM.
 
She says she has driven south and the opposing LPFM fades and her station takes over with the stereo light on. It seems the opposing LPFM is beating her up for about 3 to 5 miles to the south of her tower. The elevation lowers and she normally gets 10, maybe 12 miles on a good day heading due south of the tower. My thought that maybe somebody using the tower as target practice might not be the case. Bring on the Potomac.
 
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