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When was the last time KOST...
- Thread starter Jay_F
- Start date
R
RobertMoore
Guest
Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
...WHAT HAPPENED? This book has got to be their worst ever, especially on their 20th birthday.
One has to wonder if KIIS and KXOL is siphoning away most of Power 106's listeners, especially the 18-34 year-olds.
...WHAT HAPPENED? This book has got to be their worst ever, especially on their 20th birthday.
One has to wonder if KIIS and KXOL is siphoning away most of Power 106's listeners, especially the 18-34 year-olds.
Re: Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
> ...WHAT HAPPENED? This book has got to be their worst ever,
> especially on their 20th birthday.
>
> One has to wonder if KIIS and KXOL is siphoning away most of
> Power 106's listeners, especially the 18-34 year-olds.
>
It's a combination of changing market conditions. There are several stations tapping at their audience - however, they were No. 1 18-34 and no one buys 12+.
KXOL was also down rather dramatically.
> ...WHAT HAPPENED? This book has got to be their worst ever,
> especially on their 20th birthday.
>
> One has to wonder if KIIS and KXOL is siphoning away most of
> Power 106's listeners, especially the 18-34 year-olds.
>
It's a combination of changing market conditions. There are several stations tapping at their audience - however, they were No. 1 18-34 and no one buys 12+.
KXOL was also down rather dramatically.
Re: Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
> It's a combination of changing market conditions. There are
> several stations tapping at their audience - however, they
> were No. 1 18-34 and no one buys 12+.
Yeah, it comes down to the demo. KIIS and Power can and will co-exist in this market - It's a great situation for the market... two great sounding radio stations!
> It's a combination of changing market conditions. There are
> several stations tapping at their audience - however, they
> were No. 1 18-34 and no one buys 12+.
Yeah, it comes down to the demo. KIIS and Power can and will co-exist in this market - It's a great situation for the market... two great sounding radio stations!
K
KMRichards
Guest
Re: Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
> It's a combination of changing market conditions. There are
> several stations tapping at their audience - however, they
> were No. 1 18-34 and no one buys 12+.
Which, of course, begs the usual question:
Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+ numbers when they don't really mean anything?<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
> It's a combination of changing market conditions. There are
> several stations tapping at their audience - however, they
> were No. 1 18-34 and no one buys 12+.
Which, of course, begs the usual question:
Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+ numbers when they don't really mean anything?<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
If you take a look at Rhythmic formats across the country, they're doing poorly and I attribute that to the poor quality of product that's coming out. CHR/POP formats are picking up because their product is better and more mass appeal...Power 106 is suffering because of it, but as you said, they're gonna be ok...
Re: Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
> Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+ numbers when
> they don't really mean anything?
Answer: Because they're the only numbers that Arbitron releases wide. So they're the only ones you see in R&R, the LATimes, etc. For those of us who don't work directly in radio, and aren't privy to any demo numbers, it's the only way we can measure the local radio competition.
> Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+ numbers when
> they don't really mean anything?
Answer: Because they're the only numbers that Arbitron releases wide. So they're the only ones you see in R&R, the LATimes, etc. For those of us who don't work directly in radio, and aren't privy to any demo numbers, it's the only way we can measure the local radio competition.
K
KMRichards
Guest
Re: Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
> > Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+ numbers when
>
> > they don't really mean anything?
>
> Answer: Because they're the only numbers that Arbitron
> releases wide. So they're the only ones you see in R&R, the
> LATimes, etc. For those of us who don't work directly in
> radio, and aren't privy to any demo numbers, it's the only
> way we can measure the local radio competition.
Then you missed my point.
12+ numbers are essentially meaningless to measure the competition, because they don't measure themselves by them. (If they were meaningful, Arbitron wouldn't give them away for publication.)<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
> > Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+ numbers when
>
> > they don't really mean anything?
>
> Answer: Because they're the only numbers that Arbitron
> releases wide. So they're the only ones you see in R&R, the
> LATimes, etc. For those of us who don't work directly in
> radio, and aren't privy to any demo numbers, it's the only
> way we can measure the local radio competition.
Then you missed my point.
12+ numbers are essentially meaningless to measure the competition, because they don't measure themselves by them. (If they were meaningful, Arbitron wouldn't give them away for publication.)<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
Re: Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
> > > Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+ numbers
> when
> >
> > > they don't really mean anything?
Sure 12+ numbers mean something. They tell us what the most popular stations are among ALL listeners over the age of 12. If KOST is the number one station in the FALL book that means they were the most listened to station among all listeners in the FALL.
I find that very meaningful and worthy of discussion.
12+ numbers may mean zilch to advertisers, but I would imagine that most people who post and read these boards are not buying time on radio stations.
I think it is far more interesting to see and discuss what the general public is consuming than to discuss who is say #1 among white, 41 year old English speaking women in the 310 area code.
> > > Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+ numbers
> when
> >
> > > they don't really mean anything?
Sure 12+ numbers mean something. They tell us what the most popular stations are among ALL listeners over the age of 12. If KOST is the number one station in the FALL book that means they were the most listened to station among all listeners in the FALL.
I find that very meaningful and worthy of discussion.
12+ numbers may mean zilch to advertisers, but I would imagine that most people who post and read these boards are not buying time on radio stations.
I think it is far more interesting to see and discuss what the general public is consuming than to discuss who is say #1 among white, 41 year old English speaking women in the 310 area code.
Re: Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
> > > > Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+ numbers
> > when
> > >
> > > > they don't really mean anything?
>
>
> Sure 12+ numbers mean something. They tell us what the most
> popular stations are among ALL listners over the age of 12.
> If KOST is the number one station in the FALL book that
> means they were the most listened to station among all
> listeners in the FALL.
>
> I find that very meaningful and worthy of discussion.
>
> 12+ numbers may mean zilch to advertisers, but I would
> imagine that most people who post and read these boards are
> not buying time on radio stations.
>
> I think it is far more interesting to see and discuss what
> the general public is consuming than to discuss who is say
> #1 among white, 41 year old English speaking women in the
> 310 area code.
But the problem is advertisers don't target 12+ - they target specific demos. You might get an advertiser who sells auto parts and wants men 18-34. Do they want KOST - who ranked 13th in the demo - or KROQ who's No. 1 - so KOST being No. 1 is irrelevant to that client.
I do think 12+ numbers can show trends - but you have a lot of very profitable stations in Los Angeles who don't have big 12+ numbers - namely KFWB and KNX who together will probably bill $75 million this year. If you judged them by 12+ - they would be insignificant.
> > > > Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+ numbers
> > when
> > >
> > > > they don't really mean anything?
>
>
> Sure 12+ numbers mean something. They tell us what the most
> popular stations are among ALL listners over the age of 12.
> If KOST is the number one station in the FALL book that
> means they were the most listened to station among all
> listeners in the FALL.
>
> I find that very meaningful and worthy of discussion.
>
> 12+ numbers may mean zilch to advertisers, but I would
> imagine that most people who post and read these boards are
> not buying time on radio stations.
>
> I think it is far more interesting to see and discuss what
> the general public is consuming than to discuss who is say
> #1 among white, 41 year old English speaking women in the
> 310 area code.
But the problem is advertisers don't target 12+ - they target specific demos. You might get an advertiser who sells auto parts and wants men 18-34. Do they want KOST - who ranked 13th in the demo - or KROQ who's No. 1 - so KOST being No. 1 is irrelevant to that client.
I do think 12+ numbers can show trends - but you have a lot of very profitable stations in Los Angeles who don't have big 12+ numbers - namely KFWB and KNX who together will probably bill $75 million this year. If you judged them by 12+ - they would be insignificant.
Re: Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
> > > > Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+ numbers
> > when
> > >
> > > > they don't really mean anything?
>
>
> Sure 12+ numbers mean something. They tell us what the most
> popular stations are among ALL listeners over the age of 12.
> If KOST is the number one station in the FALL book that
> means they were the most listened to station among all
> listeners in the FALL.
From a listener´s perspective, you are totally right.
However, aside freom America´s odd fascination with ranking everything, the 12+ numbers are given away, as KM says. This is because they are valueless.
Staitns pay millions a year for ratings in LA to sell advertising. Not a single ad buy is made on 12+, which is why Arbitron feels good about releasing these overall numbers to the press. It promotes awareness of Arbitron, without giving away what the stations have paid for.
>
> I find that very meaningful and worthy of discussion.
Again, if you are speaking as a listener, I would immagine this is very interesting. I'm glad you care about radio and find the subject fun.
>
> 12+ numbers may mean zilch to advertisers, but I would
> imagine that most people who post and read these boards are
> not buying time on radio stations.
Yah got that!
>
> I think it is far more interesting to see and discuss what
> the general public is consuming than to discuss who is say
> #1 among white, 41 year old English speaking women in the
> 310 area code.
But, on the other hand, that is what advertisers want. And so stations often make "irrational" 12+ programming decisions wthat are sheer wizardry in certain desirable sales demos.
It is fun to be #1. But it is alot more fun to be #1 in 25-54. And #2. And #6. ;-)
>
> > > > Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+ numbers
> > when
> > >
> > > > they don't really mean anything?
>
>
> Sure 12+ numbers mean something. They tell us what the most
> popular stations are among ALL listeners over the age of 12.
> If KOST is the number one station in the FALL book that
> means they were the most listened to station among all
> listeners in the FALL.
From a listener´s perspective, you are totally right.
However, aside freom America´s odd fascination with ranking everything, the 12+ numbers are given away, as KM says. This is because they are valueless.
Staitns pay millions a year for ratings in LA to sell advertising. Not a single ad buy is made on 12+, which is why Arbitron feels good about releasing these overall numbers to the press. It promotes awareness of Arbitron, without giving away what the stations have paid for.
>
> I find that very meaningful and worthy of discussion.
Again, if you are speaking as a listener, I would immagine this is very interesting. I'm glad you care about radio and find the subject fun.
>
> 12+ numbers may mean zilch to advertisers, but I would
> imagine that most people who post and read these boards are
> not buying time on radio stations.
Yah got that!
>
> I think it is far more interesting to see and discuss what
> the general public is consuming than to discuss who is say
> #1 among white, 41 year old English speaking women in the
> 310 area code.
But, on the other hand, that is what advertisers want. And so stations often make "irrational" 12+ programming decisions wthat are sheer wizardry in certain desirable sales demos.
It is fun to be #1. But it is alot more fun to be #1 in 25-54. And #2. And #6. ;-)
>
Re: Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
> > > > > Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+
> numbers
> > > when
> > > >
> > > > > they don't really mean anything?
> >
> >
> > Sure 12+ numbers mean something. They tell us what the
> most
> > popular stations are among ALL listeners over the age of
> 12.
> > If KOST is the number one station in the FALL book that
> > means they were the most listened to station among all
> > listeners in the FALL.
>
> From a listener´s perspective, you are totally right.
>
> However, aside freom America´s odd fascination with ranking
> everything, the 12+ numbers are given away, as KM says. This
> is because they are valueless.
>
> Staitns pay millions a year for ratings in LA to sell
> advertising. Not a single ad buy is made on 12+, which is
> why Arbitron feels good about releasing these overall
> numbers to the press. It promotes awareness of Arbitron,
> without giving away what the stations have paid for.
> >
> > I find that very meaningful and worthy of discussion.
>
> Again, if you are speaking as a listener, I would immagine
> this is very interesting. I'm glad you care about radio and
> find the subject fun.
> >
> > 12+ numbers may mean zilch to advertisers, but I would
> > imagine that most people who post and read these boards
> are
> > not buying time on radio stations.
>
> Yah got that!
> >
> > I think it is far more interesting to see and discuss what
>
> > the general public is consuming than to discuss who is say
>
> > #1 among white, 41 year old English speaking women in the
> > 310 area code.
>
> But, on the other hand, that is what advertisers want. And
> so stations often make "irrational" 12+ programming
> decisions wthat are sheer wizardry in certain desirable
> sales demos.
>
> It is fun to be #1. But it is alot more fun to be #1 in
> 25-54. And #2. And #6. ;-)
> >
>
But wasn't KOST also #1 25-54 English language?
> > > > > Why does everyone get hysterical over the 12+
> numbers
> > > when
> > > >
> > > > > they don't really mean anything?
> >
> >
> > Sure 12+ numbers mean something. They tell us what the
> most
> > popular stations are among ALL listeners over the age of
> 12.
> > If KOST is the number one station in the FALL book that
> > means they were the most listened to station among all
> > listeners in the FALL.
>
> From a listener´s perspective, you are totally right.
>
> However, aside freom America´s odd fascination with ranking
> everything, the 12+ numbers are given away, as KM says. This
> is because they are valueless.
>
> Staitns pay millions a year for ratings in LA to sell
> advertising. Not a single ad buy is made on 12+, which is
> why Arbitron feels good about releasing these overall
> numbers to the press. It promotes awareness of Arbitron,
> without giving away what the stations have paid for.
> >
> > I find that very meaningful and worthy of discussion.
>
> Again, if you are speaking as a listener, I would immagine
> this is very interesting. I'm glad you care about radio and
> find the subject fun.
> >
> > 12+ numbers may mean zilch to advertisers, but I would
> > imagine that most people who post and read these boards
> are
> > not buying time on radio stations.
>
> Yah got that!
> >
> > I think it is far more interesting to see and discuss what
>
> > the general public is consuming than to discuss who is say
>
> > #1 among white, 41 year old English speaking women in the
> > 310 area code.
>
> But, on the other hand, that is what advertisers want. And
> so stations often make "irrational" 12+ programming
> decisions wthat are sheer wizardry in certain desirable
> sales demos.
>
> It is fun to be #1. But it is alot more fun to be #1 in
> 25-54. And #2. And #6. ;-)
> >
>
But wasn't KOST also #1 25-54 English language?
Re: Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
>>
> But wasn't KOST also #1 25-54 English language?
>
Only in December, but not October and November in actuals. I think we can, from history, discount the one month of Christmas.
>>
> But wasn't KOST also #1 25-54 English language?
>
Only in December, but not October and November in actuals. I think we can, from history, discount the one month of Christmas.
Re: Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
> > Sure 12+ numbers mean something. They tell us what the
> > most popular stations are among ALL listeners over the age of
> > 12.
> > If KOST is the number one station in the FALL book that
> > means they were the most listened to station among all
> > listeners in the FALL.
>
> From a listener´s perspective, you are totally right.
>
> However, aside freom America´s odd fascination with ranking
> everything, the 12+ numbers are given away, as KM says. This
> is because they are valueless.
By ``America'', I presume you mean the United States in the
context of your statement. Is that right?
Since you have lived and worked in other countries, why are people
in those countries not interested with ranking, whether they be
radio or otherwise?
> > Sure 12+ numbers mean something. They tell us what the
> > most popular stations are among ALL listeners over the age of
> > 12.
> > If KOST is the number one station in the FALL book that
> > means they were the most listened to station among all
> > listeners in the FALL.
>
> From a listener´s perspective, you are totally right.
>
> However, aside freom America´s odd fascination with ranking
> everything, the 12+ numbers are given away, as KM says. This
> is because they are valueless.
By ``America'', I presume you mean the United States in the
context of your statement. Is that right?
Since you have lived and worked in other countries, why are people
in those countries not interested with ranking, whether they be
radio or otherwise?
R
rwagoner
Guest
Re: Meanwhile, over at KPWR...
> - namely KFWB and KNX who together will
> probably bill $75 million this year. If you judged them by
> 12+ - they would be insignificant.
>
They're getting that way, it seems. Is there any demo they do well in? Other than spot load, I have a hard time believeing those sales numbers can last.
> - namely KFWB and KNX who together will
> probably bill $75 million this year. If you judged them by
> 12+ - they would be insignificant.
>
They're getting that way, it seems. Is there any demo they do well in? Other than spot load, I have a hard time believeing those sales numbers can last.
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