When Will ENERGY Return???

[Nirvanahead]

Surely with Energy rating reasonably well in it's time, there has to be room in Chicago for it's return.Whoever's resposible for bring it back will certainly make a profit somehow.For a station like that to be taken off-air and replaced by such terrible formats is ridiculous!By the way, what suburbs does both WKIE & WKIF transmit to?

 

[RickRose]

It is not really worth judging a station on its ratings. The thing that decides whether or not a station is successful is how it bills with commercials and the bottom line net profit. If a station only has good ratings yet if other formats are more profitable then the biggest money maker stays.

 

[musicloverII]

Uh, that's a falacy. It is not true. Here's some proof. The Beat - 20 million in revenue in less than 14 months. Kiss FM... well, you know how bad that is and it's never come close since the flip.JACK FM - Please, don't even get me started on that abomination.Energy - 4.5 million in billing, Nine FM, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of a celery stalk, unlimited oil changes, company cars and a backstage pass to some deep, poignant banjo and ukelele player's concert at the cubby bear.It's about EGO's pal. When they want what they want they put it on until it's run into the ground - see above for proof. They'll do what they want no matter what because they have alterior motives for doing it. Granted, those motives help sink the station but hey, it's their station.I'd bet Fred's first kiss and a night at the ghost of the Bistro that NINE isn't billing anywhere near what Energy did and Energy had half if not worse coverage. So please, take that corporate line and use it where people who don't know any better are. Like I stated in a post above, I wouldn't be surprised if the for sale sign gets dusted off pretty soon, Fred's probably bored with the toy. He obviously didn't buy it to win or compete with anyone.If we're going to engage in a serious discussion then let's not use cliches and worn out excuses for poor performance. It's tiring.Thanks.

It is not really worth judging a station on its ratings. The thing that decides whether or not a station is successful is how it bills with commercials and the bottom line net profit. If a station only has good ratings yet if other formats are more profitable then the biggest money maker stays.

 

[davideduardo]

Kiss, per the first 4 month's reports, is poised to be the biggest revenue gainer in Chicago this year, and will probably hit $16 to $18 million. To compare it with The Beat, a short-lifespan format that was dying, is absurd.

 

[musicloverII]

David, you're absurd. That's like saying a station going from a .0 to a .3 gained 300%. Really, entering into any discussion with you is a waste of time. You're twist of numbers is legendary. You know NOTHING about a great many things and the things you're knowledgeable about amounts to a hill of beans.You're a consultant and nothing more who needs to justify your reasons for existance. You really serve no purpose other than your own. Your "probably" (in your response to me) is the equivalent of saying Sears is up 12% this year, it's the fifth month of the year, compounded that's about a 46% gain. It's hooey. Nonsense. It's what you do at the END of the FY, not beginning. Increasing revenue quarterly not NOSEDIVING for six years and calling it progress when the station comes out of it's coma. Kiss is billing BELOW where it was almost 6 years ago. PERIOD. Only a consultant could spin that into a positive. In fact, Kiss' rates which I'm looking at? Sad. spots in afternoon drive for under 300? In Chicago? On a major stick? Take the crack pipe out of your mouth David. A good quarter or two always happens at Kiss, it's the end of the year that matters and for the last 6 they've been a joke, perhaps under a different lead they'll do better but then it's not Kiss is it? It has to morph into something that isn't the typical Kiss brand, that means they were, have been WRONG.As for your lack of knowledge of what occured at the Beat and why, you either have A.D.D. or just refuse to understand what has been stated many times over and for me to explain it again for you in another language might help but I doubt it. But I understand, you're a consultant, you spin things to the way you WANT them to be so you can pull the wool over the eyes of people who don't know any better. This Country is famous for many things, suing dead people, indicting a loaf of bread and consultants steering companies into brick walls. YOU DON'T KNOW JACK about the Beat so please, refrain from your revisionist history. Little boys playing with numbers is a dangerous thing. Take your head out of your cubicle, office or whatever hole you have it buried in and remove your biasness and personal tastes from your observations.Good day sir.

Kiss, per the first 4 month's reports, is poised to be the biggest revenue gainer in Chicago this year, and will probably hit $16 to $18 million. To compare it with The Beat, a short-lifespan format that was dying, is absurd.

 

[Rocketman]

NOBODY has the balls to do DANCE/CHR in this city. It's either done too bubble-gummy or too niche. When was the last time a station was programmed by Chicago programmers for the Chicago listening audience - SUCCESSFULLY? (Transplants don't count.)

 

[davideduardo]

First, we are taling about a $13 million biller going to the $16 to $18 range, not a low biller leaping up, as would be the case with a startup. CCU did an intelligent thing whent hey saw that Jammin' Oldies was on a death march. They looked at who they could fragment where doing so would not hurt... and could potentially benefit... their own cluster. Pulling B-96 down with a less urban leaning CHR would not affect their own Urban play, but would drop WBBM FM down in rank, making the CCU cluster collectively and, in most cases, individually, rank higher. It also was a format that has staying power, vs one that was nearly over. It does not matter what Kiss billed 6 or 7 years ago. They would be dead last if they had kept Jammin' Oldies, as nearly every station that stayed too long in format (like WMGE in Miami, for example) proved. As it is, they put on a format that fragged a big biller (witness the decline in B-96 reveneu) and changed the rank of stations in the market to their benefit. This is what is called "cluster strategy" rather than "station strategy." I learned to do that 40-some years ago, and it works. But it is the difference between playing checkers and playing chess. I am not a consultant in the US, and have not been for several decades. I am a group programming person, and Chicago is one of the markets I work in, in collaboration with the local staff and our corporate resoruces for research, promotion, etc. For the first 4 months of 2006, Kiss is up against a down market. It is likely it will end the year (since transactinal sales are based more often than not on multi-book averages) as about the 12th highest biller, and may pass WBBM-FM which is trending downwards (off $8 million in last 5 years, and not having a magnificent first 4 months, either. Despite your efforts to discredit me, I have been an active and successful broadcaster for 47 years. My most recent project propelled 13 stations into, in most cases, top 5 15-54 positions in markets ranging form #4 on down. I don't have to justify my success to you, but thought you ought to know that I am not a stray dog with no papers. When YOU create the highest cuming station in the Western Hemisphere, get back to me.

 

[musicloverII]

I know, I know, you're a God. Don't leave your presence, there'll be no one around to tell you how great you are.Your ramblings are fiction David. But that's OK because many people make a living that way.

First, we are taling about a $13 million biller going to the $16 to $18 range, not a low biller leaping up, as would be the case with a startup. CCU did an intelligent thing whent hey saw that Jammin' Oldies was on a death march. They looked at who they could fragment where doing so would not hurt... and could potentially benefit... their own cluster. Pulling B-96 down with a less urban leaning CHR would not affect their own Urban play, but would drop WBBM FM down in rank, making the CCU cluster collectively and, in most cases, individually, rank higher. It also was a format that has staying power, vs one that was nearly over. It does not matter what Kiss billed 6 or 7 years ago. They would be dead last if they had kept Jammin' Oldies, as nearly every station that stayed too long in format (like WMGE in Miami, for example) proved. As it is, they put on a format that fragged a big biller (witness the decline in B-96 reveneu) and changed the rank of stations in the market to their benefit. This is what is called "cluster strategy" rather than "station strategy." I learned to do that 40-some years ago, and it works. But it is the difference between playing checkers and playing chess. I am not a consultant in the US, and have not been for several decades. I am a group programming person, and Chicago is one of the markets I work in, in collaboration with the local staff and our corporate resoruces for research, promotion, etc. For the first 4 months of 2006, Kiss is up against a down market. It is likely it will end the year (since transactinal sales are based more often than not on multi-book averages) as about the 12th highest biller, and may pass WBBM-FM which is trending downwards (off $8 million in last 5 years, and not having a magnificent first 4 months, either. Despite your efforts to discredit me, I have been an active and successful broadcaster for 47 years. My most recent project propelled 13 stations into, in most cases, top 5 15-54 positions in markets ranging form #4 on down. I don't have to justify my success to you, but thought you ought to know that I am not a stray dog with no papers. When YOU create the highest cuming station in the Western Hemisphere, get back to me.

 

[Rocketman]

The Dance Factory doesn't count either. It's brokered programming.

 

[davideduardo]

I know, I know, you're a God. Don't leave your presence, there'll be no one around to tell you how great you are.Your ramblings are fiction David. But that's OK because many people make a living that way.

Man, before you call someone a liar, you really ought to see if, perchance, the facts you are questioning are actually true. In this case, they are.

 

[Rocketman]

David:What do you propose they put on the NINE trimulcast to ensure better ratings, and in turn, better revenues? Do you have a researched, or rather homogenized, format that will draw stellar demographics for less than 10M in revenue?What do you suggest MLII?I'd like to see what each of you would put on there to finally put to rest what realistically would work in Chicago on those frequencies.-Rob

 

[davideduardo]

I'm not convinced that the 9 signals can do anything other than brokered programming. However, that is mostly an opinion based on just looking at the 70 and 64 dbu signals. To find out with some certainty, some kind of format search would have to be done to se if there is dissatisfaction or a missing genre.The problem with using signals-that-suck (tm) to "satisfy" dissatisfied listeners is that the dissatisfaction is gnerally caused by a bad job being done by a bigger signal station. When this occurs, the bigger signal, upon being challenged, usually reacts and improves. The net result is that the little signal never gets started when the big signal takes notice and whacks it. Format searches are research projects. The big issue is that you do have gigo in these quite often. If you do not test all the alternatives, or creative mixes or new focuses, you might as well not do them. In other words, you need very good people to design the project. Still, given the incomplete coverage and the fact that Chicago is a significantly transactional market (meaning large percentages of buys are ratings based, as opposed to relationship based), I would feel that the biggest ROI would come from some form of brokered / paid /religious programming. I do not have enough current experience in formats targeted at non-Hispanic whites to be able to define by artists and ereas what might be an option. I know that there is not room for these signals to be in Spanish (been there, done that) and they don't seem to cover any significan ethnic cluster. The glib answer is to say, "see? Some stations just should not exist." And maybe this is true. But there is always someone who thinks that they can make a station successful when nobody else has managed it. Sometimes they are right, too. With all the alternatives on big signals, plus satellite and other devices, I see the usefulness of marginal signals decreasing and their deployment as brokered facilities increasing.

 

[BrianThaB]

David,I hope with all that 47 years experience and that knowledge that you are raking in the dough. Whether people disagree with your comments or not.Just to chime on this, to make a debate about the dance format, you have to comment on that specific format. Relating "Jammin Oldies to CHR/Dance to Top 40" is like relating Paris Hilton to Jessica Simpson. Sure they both are blonde but both try to act dumb in their own individual way! LOL Maybe not the best example but you get my point.A better example would be to relate the old WBMX and its ratings and revenue to the "Killer Bee/Party Radio" dance intensive days of B 96 to Energy 92 and then make a conclusion if dance is a viable format for someone to try again.Again, just an idea.B

 

[Hamp]

Uh, call me stupid, but I thought that a station actually had to EARN RATINGS, in order to make money. I didn't think it was the other way around where because of the format alone (no matter how low or high it is ratings wise) that it is automatically supposed to turn a profit.

 

[davideduardo]

Keep in mind that there are many stations with no ratings or low ratings that rake in the dough. Religious stations, some ethinc formats, brokered stations, etc., do not necessarily need ratings to be very profitable. Similarly, there are formats that are deceptive, like sports, which looks awful in 12+ but due to the concentration of 25-54 men, do very well economically. A station decides first if it is going to go for ratings and ratings driven revenue, or be satisfied with low ratings and a lower, but more attainable, revenue stream.

 

[Hamp]

I understand the station (no matter what the format) has to charge money for commericals, BUT if your ratings are in the toliet, how can you justify charging as much money (as a high-rated station) per slot being at the bottom of the heap? If no one is listening to you, why would I as an advertiser pay such an astronomical amount?

 

[JeremyAndrews]

Target demo.Say if there is an AC stationAnd a CHR stationthe CHR station gets high ratingsthe AC station gets lower ratingsThe advertisers want to advertise to the people (females in their 30s and 40s) because these people are more likely to go out and buy their product then teenagers and people in college. And since the AC station is all they got that gets this demo, then they can charge more because the advertisers that want these people have nowhere else to go.All that I ever heard advertising on Energy was nightclubs. Energy targeted the night clubbers. Thus there you go.Plus there's also heritage issues and name issues.Not 100% sure on this but these are my guesses.

 

[Hamp]

Target demo.Say if there is an AC stationAnd a CHR stationthe CHR station gets high ratingsthe AC station gets lower ratingsThe advertisers want to advertise to the people (females in their 30s and 40s) because these people are more likely to go out and buy their product then teenagers and people in college. And since the AC station is all they got that gets this demo, then they can charge more because the advertisers that want these people have nowhere else to go.All that I ever heard advertising on Energy was nightclubs. Energy targeted the night clubbers. Thus there you go.Plus there's also heritage issues and name issues.Not 100% sure on this but these are my guesses.

Yeah Jeremy, I see your point. The only problem with that logic is that corporate entities assume just because you start an Adult Contemporary station, it is automatically going to make money because of the demographics alone. But what ends up happening is too many stations going after the same piece of the pie, then really no one ends winning. Ultimately, some of those AC's have to flip formats. Every station can't do AC formats, some have to do other formats to cater to the market which they are in.For example, I think there is a stigma about mainstream Urban formats not being to make billing.But unless it is done right, it wont. The same goes for ANY format, including various AC's. One cannot assume if I play Celine Dion, Michael Bolton and Gloria Estefan ten times a day my station will bill high, because it may not. There also has to be some additional grunt work involved as well.

 

[-TJ-]

To simply answer the question of this topic, it would return if someone I know has their company bought out in the next couple years like Myspace was by Fox. That person has a plan, but it's all about money and if the station that person has in mind would take the offer. Dreams can happen sometimes.But looking at the current ownership, i don't know why 9 hasn't just woke up about it, but even independent companies (like crawford, newsweb) who don't have to answer to shareholders have their own ideals of which they want to run with.But in the next two years, more people should have HD radios, and i think B96 HD2 is doing it anyway, right?

 

[Rocketman]

Kiss should be re-call letter as WKTC-FM and re-launch as 103.5 KTC playing a Dance/CHR format, similar to NYC's. LOL... NOT!