When will HD Radio will take over Analog radio.

[WPPCProductions]

Hi All ,Like TV in 2009 will change to digital broadcasting. any one on here think the US congress and the FCC will set a time table {DICTATE} to phase out normal analog radios to HD radios,As of now I can't picture me carrying my expensive HD Only AM/FM radio to the beach, and get it loaded up with sand, and salt water.

 

[Radioman100]

Hi All ,Like TV in 2009 will change to digital broadcasting. any one on here think the US congress and the FCC will set a time table {DICTATE} to phase out normal analog radios to HD radios,As of now I can't picture me carrying my expensive HD Only AM/FM radio to the beach, and get it loaded up with sand, and salt water.

Check the other posts in the forum about the new $149 shelf system that Best Buy is rolling out or the new $129 car stereo. HD is making its way into less expensive devices. This trend will continue. In the next year or two I think we'll see plenty of HD radios that are priced similarly to their non-HD counterparts.

I think it's safe to say HD is now within reach of mere mortals price-wise and prices will only continue to get lower for many HD equipped devices.

 

[KeithE4]

Hi All ,Like TV in 2009 will change to digital broadcasting. any one on here think the US congress and the FCC will set a time table {DICTATE} to phase out normal analog radios to HD radios,As of now I can't picture me carrying my expensive HD Only AM/FM radio to the beach, and get it loaded up with sand, and salt water.

My guess is: FM will coexist with HD for many years to come, and FM as a mode of radio transmission won't be going away anytime soon.

AM-HD is Dead Technology Walking. Full-carrier AM is compatible with nothing and should not be sharing frequencies with any other mode. IBOC on the AM band has flaws you can drive a truck through. Digital Radio Mondiale has more possibilities but may be politically impossible in the U.S.

The main problem is that the FCC decided many decades ago that having 20 kHz wide channels separated by 10 kHz was a really good idea. Uh...no. Think of TV Channel 2 being 54-60 MHz and Channel 3 being 57-63 MHz instead of 60-66 MHz. It wouldn't work.

 

[LinoNYC]

Hi All ,Like TV in 2009 will change to digital broadcasting. any one on here think the US congress and the FCC will set a time table {DICTATE} to phase out normal analog radios to HD radios,As of now I can't picture me carrying my expensive HD Only AM/FM radio to the beach, and get it loaded up with sand, and salt water.

With upwards of 600 million analog receivers, it's unlikely that there will ever be a "dictate' to phase out analog

While much has been made of a supposed "big station conspiracy" to impose iboc, it might well be that the small AM stations would petition for permission to go all digital.

For instance, a station that serves only an area of several thousand would not have that much trouble encouraging most of it's listeners to buy digital sets, once they are reasonably priced. Against that, stations that serve large cities will probably not have enough digitally equipped listeners for several decades.

Wouldn't be ironic if some of the small owners who most fear and opposed this system end up having it save their operation?

Lino

 

[SUPERCASTER]

If

stations that serve large cities will probably not have enough digitally equipped listeners for several decades.

How could smaller stations quickly and successfully peddle a much higher percentage of HD radios to their listeners when powerhouse major market stations can't?

Are smaller stations really that much more effective at advertising and promotion?

Wouldn't be ironic if some of the small owners who most fear and opposed this system end up having it save their operation?

Not ironic, just impossible.

 

[Mike Walker]

People often don't buy radios. They buy devices WITH radios, when they're affordable, and offer value at little, or no apparent cost. A couple of examples have been noted earlier (89 dollar car stereo with HD from Dual, 149 dollar do-everything shelf-system with HD at Best Buy).

But digital doesn't degrade gracefully/gradually as does analog. It's either there, or it isn't (ask a satellite radio subscriber. Wait, you just did!) So digital NEEDS analog for fallback. There's no compelling reason (imho) to ever (or at least for a LONG time...longer than my life on Earth...I'm 50 now) turn off analog FM. There just isn't that much gained, and much is lost. But that's with FM, where the system works well, offers extra programming options, reasonable coverage, and causes negligible (if any) interference in the vast majority of situations.

AM, however, is charitably a work in progress, less charitably a freakin' mess. Another solution (for digital delivery) needs to emerge for AM. And no, DRM ain't it in the US, where there are thousands of stations and no open channels (unlike Europe and other locales where there are far fewer stations, and more open spots on the dial). I know...AM HD ain't "IBOC", because it ain't ON CHANNEL. It's all over several channels. But DRM seriously requires each station to have TWO, count 'em TWO assigned frequencies...one for analog, one for digital. So as solutions go, that ain't it. There are other possibilities, however. The future is digital. We're just debating WHICH digital technology is best!

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Like TV in 2009 will change to digital broadcasting. any one on here think the US congress and the FCC will set a time table {DICTATE} to phase out normal analog radios to HD radios

The analogy is flawed in several respects:

1) It's not the TVs that are being phased out, it's the method of TV transmission. For those people who receive TV over the air, converters will be available, so as not to immediately make obsolete the analog equipment they've already invested in.

2) The mandatory phase-out of analog TV transmission is being done because TV broadcasters are currently occupying two channels (one analog and one digital)...and after the drop-dead date they must turn in the license for one of those. That reclaimed spectrum will be assigned to other services. No such thing will occur with radio, since the same broadcast bands and frequencies are being used for digital radio that are being used for analog. Thus, there's no need to fix a drop-dead date for analog radio. Even if, at some point in the future, radio broadcasters start turning off their analog transmitters, the digital transmitters will still use the same broadcast frequencies as they do now. No radio spectrum will be reclaimed for other uses.

3) It is estimated that there are in excess of 800 million analog radios in the hands of US consumers. With HD's slow-as-molasses start, getting the number of HD radios up to a "critical mass," where analog could be safely turned off without a sickening drop in the number of radio listeners and station revenues, would take years if not decades. By contrast, HDTVs are flying off the shelves, and as stated before converters will be available for the remaining analog TVs.

4) The drop-dead date for analog TV transmission was fixed by Congress, and only they can change it. They have declined to set a similar drop-dead date for analog radio transmission.

 

[awj223]

But digital doesn't degrade gracefully/gradually as does analog. It's either there, or it isn't (ask a satellite radio subscriber. Wait, you just did!) So digital NEEDS analog for fallback.

Yes, that has to be the most annoying thing about digital. With analog cell phones, you got some warning (from static) and calls didn't just drop suddenly. With analog radio it's the same thing. However, there were many advantages of moving to digital mobile phones (security being the biggest). In radio, it's a public broadcast and security isn't a concern. The best part of doing digital is being able to compress a signal to fit more than 10 kHz of bandwidth in a 10 kHz channel. However, there are drawbacks.

Do you find the following more or less annoying than analog static and nighttime skywave fadeout? http://www.owdjim.gen.nz:12600/content/DRMreception/200709081218.ogg I'm undecided. This sample is Digital Radio Mondiale, Radio Australia to Papua New Guinea. Here's what a digital signal in fadeout sounds like. When digital is good, it's very good, but when it's bad, it's extremely annoying. ( source: http://www.owdjim.gen.nz/chris/radio/DRM/ )

AM, however, is charitably a work in progress, less charitably a freakin' mess. Another solution (for digital delivery) needs to emerge for AM. And no, DRM ain't it in the US, where there are thousands of stations and no open channels (unlike Europe and other locales where there are far fewer stations, and more open spots on the dial). I know...AM HD ain't "IBOC", because it ain't ON CHANNEL. It's all over several channels. But DRM seriously requires each station to have TWO, count 'em TWO assigned frequencies...one for analog, one for digital. So as solutions go, that ain't it. There are other possibilities, however. The future is digital. We're just debating WHICH digital technology is best!

The inability to do hybrid isn't a minus for DRM. You can't do hybrid on a band with 20 kHz channels and 10 kHz separation. The conversion must happen all at once, with stations throwing a switch and changing modes overnight. Mandating MW DRM/FM HD in all AM/FM receivers is a start. From what I understand, AM-HD isn't worth doing, even in pure digital mode, because it isn't robust enough for skywave propagation, while DRM was built to handle that type of distortion.

 

[Mike Walker]

There will never be a time when you just "throw the switch" in one day, and turn off analog, turning on digital simultaneously, because everyone (most, no doubt) who didn't have a digital receiver would be LOST as a listener. And if they had a digital receiver, A DIGITAL RECEIVER...perhaps in the car, or on the table at home, it sure as hell wouldn't replace the BILLIONS of analog receivers already in place! After all, the expensive DRM radio in your car, or on the table at home ain't gonna' do a damn thing for you when you're lounding by the pool, or jogging!

As for February 2009 not meaning the end of existing TVs, come on...NOBODY (or almost nobody) HAS THE ADAPTERS YET! If you rely on an antenna and analog tv, and don't have an adapter (which isn't even on sale in most markets...try to find one in a store!), then you are royally screwed! Worse, the general public is largely clueless that this big deadline is coming!

 

[awj223]

There will never be a time when you just "throw the switch" in one day, and turn off analog, turning on digital simultaneously, because everyone (most, no doubt) who didn't have a digital receiver would be LOST as a listener. And if they had a digital receiver, A DIGITAL RECEIVER...perhaps in the car, or on the table at home, it sure as hell wouldn't replace the BILLIONS of analog receivers already in place! After all, the expensive DRM radio in your car, or on the table at home ain't gonna' do a damn thing for you when you're lounding by the pool, or jogging!

As for February 2009 not meaning the end of existing TVs, come on...NOBODY (or almost nobody) HAS THE ADAPTERS YET! If you rely on an antenna and analog tv, and don't have an adapter (which isn't even on sale in most markets...try to find one in a store!), then you are royally screwed! Worse, the general public is largely clueless that this big deadline is coming!

At some point, you have to figure that anyone too cheap to buy a new receiver isn't going to be worth advertising to. Obviously we're not close to that point, but you can't maintain backwards compatibility forever. Imagine what you'd be typing your posts on if all computer software had to be compatible with the first machine made.

There comes a time when you need to throw a switch and move on, backwards compatibility be damned. Analog TV won't work after 2009, and AMPS mobile phones won't work after February 2008. Too cheap to replace your bag phone from the 1980s? Do without a phone, because it obviously doesn't mean much to you if you aren't willing to spend a couple hundred dollars per every other decade to upgrade. The continued existence of AMPS is holding back newer technologies that can use spectrum over 10x more efficiently.

 

[MotoMuzak]

"If you rely on an antenna and analog tv, and don't have [a convertor] (which isn't even on sale in most markets...try to find one in a store!)"

*sigh*
Mike, have you <<ever actually looked>> in any store in most markets or are you just saying that in an attempt to make an argument?

Panasonic DMR-EZ27 DVD recorder with ATSC tuner (the same thing I have, incidentally) @ Best Buy~
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8251394&type=product&id=1169857843127

Direct from Panasonic~
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-...ers/model.DMR-EZ27K_11002_7000000000000005702



The EZ17K, very similar to the 27 but doesn't have an SD drive~
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-...ers/model.DMR-EZ17K_11002_7000000000000005702



Similar boxes direct from Panasonic~
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-...ecorders.list.75012_11002_7000000000000005702

and at least one at CC~
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Pana...sem/rpsm/oid/178670/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do


In this case, if all the user wants to do is watch digital TV, the DVD recorder might be a decent value add (they also play back regular, read-only DVD-Video movies like the user would buy at J-mart.)


The Samsung DTB-H260F (I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS ONE but only if you have component video [YCrCb] on your TV set--many of the receiver's most useful functions aren't accessible via the yellow cable!!)
CC~
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sams...64855/catOid/-15607/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

@ Better Buy~
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...I?skuId=8102796&type=product&id=1161734592183



Pretty much all of these boxes I have listed have outputs which enable them to be used with an analogue television set (S-Video, component, yellow cable) or with the aid of a modulatir if you don't have these connections on your set.

Check the stores I mentioned here or even WallyWorld (I know they have a couple, though I don't actually buy from them) also you could find other models or types.

And yes, they DO have *most of* these in the stores, at least here in PDX.
There ya go.

 

[Mike Walker]

Motomuzak I HAVE seen them in stores a couple of years ago. My local Wal Mart had them. So did Best Buy and Circuit City in Hickory and Winston Salem, as well as Radio Shack. None of those stores (in the areas I've mentioned) had a single unit in stock this summer when I was looking to add DTV capability. I KNOW they're available online, but yes I've checked in stores, and told that there was no demand, so they stopped carrying them. Best Buy (Hickory NC) did tell me that they will probably carry them again when the deadline nears.

If a local store had one, I'd buy it this week so that I could record ATSC on my old DVD recorder in the bedroom, built before they started putting ATSC tuners in 'em (which my newer Philips DVD recorder has).

If they REALLY DO have them NOW in your Circuit City and Best Buy, that's very interesting. The ones I've seen online are priced too damn high. When you can get a DVD recorder with ATSC for 160 bucks, why the hell would you pay that much for a tuner only (of course DVD recorders don't output HD, but most people who buy these will be adapting an older TV that can't display HD anyway).