Whenever HD Radio comes...

[ksradiogeek]

Whenever HD Radio ever comes to Canada, I think I would see these formats on HD Radio for various stations in the GTA:
No AM stations will have it (discussed in an earlier post)
91.1-HD2: BBC World Service
92.5-HD2: Jack FM, HD3: 680 simulcast
93.5-HD2: All-Canadian hip-hop, HD3: Slow Jams (slow R&B music)
96.3-HD2: Opera Channel, HD3: Symphonic Favorites (similar to KING-HD3/Seattle)
97.3-HD2: Oldies, HD3: CFRB simulcast
98.1-HD2: Oldies
99.9-HD2: New Top 40, HD3: 640 simulcast
102.1-HD2: "Spirit of Radio" (revival of 102's heritage days)
103.5-HD2: "The Vibe" (All-Dance)
104.5-HD2: 80s and 90s Hits, HD3: Smooth Jazz
107.1-HD2: Deep Tracks

Thoughts?

 

[ksradiogeek]

Also, add in:
98.1-HD3: 590 simulcast

 

[Yeziknoradio]

"99.9-HD2: New Top 40, HD3: 640 simulcast"

I think we need to get through this whole Bell Astral deal first before looking at what perhaps could exist on HD radios, if they ever could work in Canada.

AM 640 was rumored to be sold (by Corus) to Bell to launch TSN 640 and have bell sell 1050.
Not sure what's up with that one...

 

[w9wi]

- The CRTC has already decided subchannels on TV will be treated as completely new stations. I think it's reasonable to assume they'll take the same stand with regard to HD Radio.
- Which doesn't mean I don't think they'd be willing to authorize them in the GTA. (I wouldn't count on it being allowed in small markets though. If the CRTC would deny a new analog FM station in a given market on the grounds of economic damage to existing stations, I think they'd deny a HD subchannel in that market.)

I have my doubts Canadian broadcasters will see any point in HD. It's been authorized for what, over a year now?, and to my knowledge the grand total of stations using it in Canada is *zero*.

The biggest driver of HD deployments in the U.S. has been the ability to create completely new low-powered analog stations, through loopholes in the regulations. In the U.S., you cannot license a commercial FM station unless it can run at least 6kw/100m without interfering with anyone. HD allows you to bypass this 6kw minimum, operating at any level up to 250 watts* -- and with no minimum -- as long as no interference is caused. To do it, you have to have a HD subchannel (or AM station) to relay.


This situation doesn't exist in Canada. The CRTC seems willing to license commercial FM stations at *any* power level that's acceptable to Industry Canada. Toronto's CIRR-FM, Montreal's CKDG-FM, Thunder Bay's CJUK-FM are examples of stations that in the U.S. would have to be licensed as translators of HD2/HD3 channels. In Canada, they're stations in their own right.

Point being, I see no need for HD in Canada.

* with no hard limit on antenna height, beyond the necessity to avoid interference.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Point being, I see no need for HD in Canada.

I'm going to disagree, but only if
1) HD can boost the quality of AM radio to make it sound FM, or of CD quality
or
2) If HD can boost the signal strength to reach more listeners than the current FM signal.

CIRR is the most awful signal...I mean, not that I'd care, since it's an FM targeting the gay community of Toronto, and I'm a straight male. I'm just making a point that any weaker signal deserves the greatest strength it can get without upsetting other radio stations.

 

[w9wi]

Point being, I see no need for HD in Canada.

I'm going to disagree, but only if
1) HD can boost the quality of AM radio to make it sound FM, or of CD quality

I've found a minor improvement, but only if you're in a location where the analog signal is VERY strong. Any kind of noise in the analog signal whatsoever, and the digital won't decode.

There's also the question of interference to other stations; while it's called "on-channel" there's actually significant signal in the channels on either side.

That may not be as big of a deal in Canada, as there aren't that many other AM stations to interfere with, and many Canadian AM stations direct most of their power straight north, through their communities & towards the nearest point in Nunavut .

or
2) If HD can boost the signal strength to reach more listeners than the current FM signal.

In the currently-used hybrid mode, digital coverage is significantly less than analog. (to be expected, as the mode requires digital power to be 10% or less of analog power)

There is a full-digital mode that may offer comparable coverage. We really don't know, because nobody's used it in real-world tests. The problem is that to use full-digital, you have to silence your analog signal; of course, at that point well over 99% of your audience can no longer receive your station!

CIRR is the most awful signal...I mean, not that I'd care, since it's an FM targeting the gay community of Toronto, and I'm a straight male. I'm just making a point that any weaker signal deserves the greatest strength it can get without upsetting other radio stations.

Getting on the HD2 of one of the larger stations would certainly improve CIRR's coverage area. If they were on the HD2 of CHUM-FM or Q107 or one of the other big signals, I'd imagine they'd be solid in the City of Toronto and the bordering suburbs.

But it doesn't do much good to have a strong signal in MIssissauga (sp?) if there aren't any HD radios there .

Really though, my point was that in the U.S., a major driver for HD implementation is that it's the only way a station like CIRR could be created.* Due to different regulations in Canada, HD is not necessary to accomplish that.

* I'm aware of LGBT-oriented HD2 subchannels in the U.S.. I'm not 100% certain any of them are being relayed on analog translators.

 

[ksradiogeek]

1050 SOLD? I don't think that will happen. Can't separate CHUM AM & FM from each other. Bell will NEVER divest those into a trust when the merger with Astral's complete.
Also, what the US has for LGBT dance stations on HD-"Pride Radio." Not on any translators as far as I know of.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

1050 SOLD? I don't think that will happen. Can't separate CHUM AM & FM from each other. Bell will NEVER divest those into a trust when the merger with Astral's complete.
Also, what the US has for LGBT dance stations on HD-"Pride Radio." Not on any translators as far as I know of.

Simply take CHUM down the dial with them...CHUM 640 (as TSN 640) and 1050 could be sold as CJMJ 1050 (or other call letters) if keeping CHUM AM is such a big deal...

That's what Telemedia did. They bought 590.
CKYC (Country 59) and CJCL (Fan 1430) switched. Pelmorex country network aired on 1430 for a very short time, and Fairchild 1430 (CKYC multicultural radio) was born shortly after...(along with the new Fan 590...)

 

[fybush]

I think there is far less sentiment about the "CHUM" identity at Bell than some of the posters here imagine. Bell/CTV certainly had no desire to keep the "CHUM Group" branding when it took over the radio operation, and "TSN 1050" uses the "C-H-U-M" legal ID only once an hour, if that. If there's more money in keeping CFRB and 640 and shedding 1050, they'll do it in a heartbeat.

 

[Dan Sys]

Where did all this "640 being sold to Bell" talk come from anyways? If Corus were to get rid of 640 (which to me seems highly unlikely in the first place) I'm sure they would just shut it down rather than sell it to a competitor.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Where did all this "640 being sold to Bell" talk come from anyways?

It did not start here: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=150400

It actually started here: http://www.canadianthinker.com/2012/01/tsn_640.html

...and Freddy P. wouldn't just write a bunch of BS...it's Fred! From the CFNY Humble & Fred days!

Keep on mind, the idea of 640 becoming TSN 640 came to be prior to Bell's decision to buy Astral Media. Whatever the plan is now, is anyone's guess...

 

[Dan Sys]

Thanks Yeziknoradio. Also interesting to learn that an All Traffic format was being considered for 640 at one point.

 

[mjlarochelle]

The one thing that could, and I mean could drive HD radio to come to Toronto is the current lack of space for additional FM allotments.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

The one thing that could, and I mean could drive HD radio to come to Toronto is the current lack of space for additional FM allotments.

...and if that could be the case, watch the current 103.9 format get the boot over to HD in favor of the argument that Evanov group needs 103.9 as a repeater of 103.5 to better serve Toronto and the GTA...(or something like that...)

Given that such an option suggests that there is no intent to abandon the gay community, I don't see the CRTC having any objections to the idea either... (even though it DOES force them all to either buy an HD radio or listen online)

 

[Ai4i]

Have I been asleep too long and just rolled out of bed in an alternate reality or have I died and gone to hell? Canada has or had the greatest digital radio standard in the world, L band DAB, and the government swore they would never allow iBOC in. What went wrong, what have I missed?

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Have I been asleep too long and just rolled out of bed in an alternate reality or have I died and gone to hell? Canada has or had the greatest digital radio standard in the world, L band DAB, and the government swore they would never allow iBOC in. What went wrong, what have I missed?

Let's first remind everyone what an old DAB radio ad sounded like on the radio in Toronto in 1995...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWbLlvWkwP8

Now back to today. Sadly, DAB never did catch on.
All of a sudden Vinyl 95.3 (Hamilton) gets bragging rights for being the first HD radio station in Canada...
(see: "Rob 50312" near bottom of page)
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1469107

Being that this is a Corus owned station, it will be interesting to see if they add Y108, Q107 and other Corus properties to the list of available stations.
I honestly do not know if any other company is going ahead with plans to broadcast in HD, but why would they want to?
If the general (Canadian) public wouldn't rush out and buy a DAB radio, why would they run out and buy an HD radio? ???

 

[w9wi]

From what I'm hearing... it's looking like they *are* expecting Canadians to rush out & buy HD radios, just that they won't *know* they're buying HD radios.

To wit, apparently this station is using HD to broadcast traffic data for use by GPSs. Any ability to deliver digital audio to speakers is simply incidental.

Assuming that's in fact the business model here... I suppose you'll see additional HD stations in other major Canadian cities. Chances are one of the CN Tower stations, for example, will be going HD soon. However, if the sole purpose is for traffic data, I'm not sure there'll be a point to having more than one HD station with identical coverage.



And, if Vinyl is claiming to be the *first* HD station in Canada, they're wrong The CBC has already tested it in Toronto; either Radio One/99.1 or Chaine Culturelle/90.3 was the first HD station in Canada. Vinyl may, however, be the *only* HD station in Canada as my understanding is the CBC has turned the equipment off.

 

[spunker88]

It sounds like they are mainly using it to be compatible with the HD radio traffic system. It will be interesting to see if this comes to any other Corus stations in Canada. Does anybody know what the CRTC rules would be for HD subchannels, I imagine nobody will run HD-2s if they have to license them separately like DTV subs.