Where has the pro-IBOC contingent gone?

[Tom Wells]

Since the announcement regarding IBOC on the "Wrath of Kahn", the ibiquity cheerleaders on this board have been very quiet.
I would love to be a fly on the wall at ibiquity and hear what is going on..

Perhaps silence is the sound of heads rolling.

Is there perhaps nothing left to discuss/ argue?

 

[700WLW]

Since the announcement regarding IBOC on the "Wrath of Kahn", the ibiquity cheerleaders on this board have been very quiet.
I would love to be a fly on the wall at ibiquity and hear what is going on..

Perhaps silence is the sound of heads rolling.

Is there perhaps nothing left to discuss/ argue?

Well, according to IBOCRocks, I was responsible for chasing them off. At iBiquity, I bet it is hitting the fan, because their time is becoming due; as posted before, this article is even from last year:

"IBiquity Digital's Make-or-Break Point Approaches"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58846-2005Feb27.html

 

[HD_Ready]

Its useless to try and discuss IBOC here. This has become a childish forum.

 

[700WLW]

Its useless to try and discuss IBOC here. This has become a childish forum.

Then leave !

 

[OldGringo]

Since the announcement regarding IBOC on the "Wrath of Kahn", the ibiquity cheerleaders on this board have been very quiet.
I would love to be a fly on the wall at ibiquity and hear what is going on..

Perhaps silence is the sound of heads rolling.

Is there perhaps nothing left to discuss/ argue?

There are now over 2000 HD-commited stations, 500 with HD 2 channels and over 1000 on the air. There is no argument, and dealing with pathological liars like WLW700 is impossible.

Nothing will be decided on this board. All the major companies have voted with the checkbook and are commmited to HD.

It's over.

Leonard Kahn can rot for what he did to kill AM. Nobody cares about him any more.

 

[700WLW]

Since the announcement regarding IBOC on the "Wrath of Kahn", the ibiquity cheerleaders on this board have been very quiet.
I would love to be a fly on the wall at ibiquity and hear what is going on..

Perhaps silence is the sound of heads rolling.

Is there perhaps nothing left to discuss/ argue?

There are now over 2000 HD-commited stations, 500 with HD 2 channels and over 1000 on the air. There is no argument, and dealing with pathological liars like WLW700 is impossible.

Nothing will be decided on this board. All the major companies have voted with the checkbook and are commmited to HD.

It's over.

Leonard Kahn can rot for what he did to kill AM. Nobody cares about him any more.

And, most of those stations are owned by Clear Channel, whose stock is down 30% ! They can broadcast away, but the public is not buying into this farse and fraud. With no portable HD radios for the foreseeable future, HD Radio will die, just as AM Stereo of the 1980's. If nothing can be decided on this board, then why spend so much time posting ?

 

[vsa]

OLDGRINGO/DAVID WROTE: "It's over. Leonard Kahn can rot for what he did to kill AM. Nobody cares about him any more."

I'm glad to see you're still around here, David. We are both, after all, pro-digital.

Now, now. Why so bitter and personal? AM broadcasters could have had Kahn's original AM stereo system back in the 1960s. But no, the clamor for AM stereo only came when it was already too late for music on AM - in the late 70s, a full decade after FM became cool.

In a very short period of time, one man spends a million dollars out of his own pocket developing a technology that pole-vaults over the best that iBiquity and its predecessors were able accomplish in more than 16 years - spending more than 135 million dollars over that time. I wonder if there isn't at least some degree of jealousy?

You bet it's over. It's over for HD Radio. The public has been voting every day on the product and it is simply not selling. With a slate of HD Radios on the ballot, consumers have been voting for regular radios or none-of-the-above on a daily basis.

Today on Amazon, a new BA Receptor HD was available for a low of $230, yet it could not climb above the sales rank of 3,000th place. And this is with your ballyhooed $200 million dollar radio advertising blitz pushing it.

 

[DanCon]

The only people turning this into pro- vs. con- IBOC forum are the people with an axe to grind against it. None of the other HD Radio forums on the web are out of control like this one is. That's why I haven't been contributing any more -- I moved onto the other boards where the discussion is much more grown up and enjoyable.

[EDIT]

I should also mention that since this site seems to be all about censorship, you, lucky reader, are one of the few souls fortunate enough to see this comment before it inevitably gets deleted. Oh well, hopefully I'll see some of you around. [EDIT]

Bye...

[EDIT--two personal attacks.]

 

[SUPERCASTER]

The only people turning this into pro- vs. con- IBOC forum are the people with an axe to grind against it. None of the other HD Radio forums on the web are out of control like this one is. That's why I haven't been contributing any more -- I moved onto the other boards where the discussion is much more grown up and enjoyable.

Honestly, I don't know how Doug's parents allowed this site to deterorate the way it has. They've really done a disservice to his memory.

Some of the other forums are operated and populated by people who have an interest in promoting HD Radio. They work for broadcasting companies who have interests in HD, invested in HD, are broadcasting HD, have installed HD, have bought HD, are part of the HD cartel, or have close friends or relatives who have.
On some other boards nothing but (mostly false) pro-HD promotional hype is allowed, and anything HD negative, is banned as flaming, and will get you kicked off the board. How intensely juvinile is that?

More personal attacks, infantile personal criticisms, and now trying to use the memory of a deceased loved one to influence and manipulate the owners to change the direction and operation of this website, are just a few of the devices used by HD promoters to peddle a destructive, defective product.
There seems to be no limit to the depths of depravity of some HD supporters.
Have you no shame?

 

[OldGringo]

In a very short period of time, one man spends a million dollars out of his own pocket developing a technology that pole-vaults over the best that iBiquity and its predecessors were able accomplish in more than 16 years - spending more than 135 million dollars over that time. I wonder if there isn't at least some degree of jealousy?

He is too late. His solution is AM only. Most broadcasters remember Leonard well for how he killed music AM. The system could be great, but unless it rides on the same platform as FM, manufacturers will not touch it. To waste time with it is to insure the total death of AM. And then no one will worry about sidebands, interference, DXing, etc. as there will be no AM stations.

Leonard Kahn is commercial AM's biggest enemy... he is the wolf to radio's Little Red Riding Hood.

Oh, as said before... the HD rollout is a multi-year proposition. The lower priced receivers are not even on the shelves. What is yur frikkin' obcession with the known-to-be-defective BA uint? We all know it sucks, so let it die already.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

In a very short period of time, one man spends a million dollars out of his own pocket developing a technology that pole-vaults over the best that iBiquity and its predecessors were able accomplish in more than 16 years - spending more than 135 million dollars over that time. I wonder if there isn't at least some degree of jealousy?

He is too late. His solution is AM only. Most broadcasters remember Leonard well for how he killed music AM. The system could be great, but unless it rides on the same platform as FM, manufacturers will not touch it. To waste time with it is to insure the total death of AM. And then no one will worry about sidebands, interference, DXing, etc. as there will be no AM stations.

Leonard Kahn is commercial AM's biggest enemy... he is the wolf to radio's Little Red Riding Hood.

Oh, as said before... the HD rollout is a multi-year proposition. The lower priced receivers are not even on the shelves. What is yur frikkin' obcession with the known-to-be-defective BA uint? We all know it sucks, so let it die already.

FMeXtra is the way to go.
Quote from audiophile:

This is quote from another board:

Originally Posted by mattdp
FM eXtra in little ol' Rochester, MN (my city)?


What station is broadcasting FM Extra?

Man... I'm in over joyed that we would actually be a "beta tester" type market for FM eXtra. Rochester's radio and TV kinda stinks because we are such a little market. I mean, we can't even get our market area's digital CBS and ABC stations, and we've got to HD Stations (the classical station and the NPR "downright liberal" talk station), and all radio besides 88.7 (89.3 The Current) and KROC-AM 1340 just aren't worth listening to [in my opinion, anyway]



Of course, who else has money to play with? MPR OF COURSE! The classical station has it running... The guy who installed it was able to pick up the carrier 200(!!!) miles away! Clear as a bell he says.


200 miles? Excellent!


Here is a little background on DRE:
http://www.engberg.com/pdf/fm_extra/2260_fin.pdf

 

[vsa]

OLDGRINGO/DAVID WROTE: "He is too late. His solution is AM only. Most broadcasters remember Leonard well for how he killed music AM. The system could be great, but unless it rides on the same platform as FM, manufacturers will not touch it. To waste time with it is to insure the total death of AM. And then no one will worry about sidebands, interference, DXing, etc. as there will be no AM stations."

Here's what AWJ233 said in another thread about that: "Oh puh-lease. The days of one technology per chip are long gone. A single chip in my cellphone supports two different air access technologies (GSM/GPRS/EDGE and WCDMA/UMTS/HSDPA) on four frequencies. There are also separate processor cores for each of the following: for audio codecs, camera processing, graphics, video codecs, and more, all on a single die. Supporting the Ibiquity system because it's the only one at present to have an AM and FM solution on a single chip is one of the poorest reasons I can think of."

OLDGRINGO/DAVID WROTE: "What is yur frikkin' obcession with the known-to-be-defective BA uint? We all know it sucks, so let it die already."

Very funny. We'll see how the newer HD Radio tabletops work pretty soon won't we.

 

[DanCon]

trying to use the memory of a deceased loved one to influence and manipulate the owners to change the direction and operation of this website...Have you no shame?

That's exactly the cop-out response I expected from you and I'm not going to dwell on it.  But I believe the guy who founded this site had a passion for the radio business and was proud of the community spirit he built.  I don't think he'd be proud to see the vitriolic exchanges happening here, and my opinion stands.

HD Radio is the probably the most interesting thing to be happening in terrestrial radio right now and this forum should be the leading place to talk about its many aspects, but all we have going on here is infantile bickering about its technical merits, led by a small group of you guys with multiple screen names and an agenda to push.

So maybe Kahn is better than IBOC. And maybe Beta is better than VHS.  Maybe a Mac is better than a PC.  And maybe not -- I really don't care.  I've made my choices and when I go into a discussion forum to talk about my PC I don't want to see a bunch of Mac guys attacking Windows in every thread.  Most moderators would move that kind of bull without hesitation, but there's no attempt to do the same with the anti-HD minority on this forum.

What seems to be needed here is one forum for people to argue about the engineering aspects of HD radio (and its competitors), and another forum where people not interested in that kind of debate can discuss HD radio programming, new stations on the air, new receivers coming to market etc. without being attacked with anti-HD rhetoric every time.

I have a feeling the engineering area would become a fairly one-sided conversation where all you HD Radio haters (or should I say both of you) would just be talking amongst yourselves, because frankly I don't think anyone else cares.  There are hundreds of HD Radio stations on the air, lots of unique HD2 programming, and new radios to be found in stores now.  Those are the kinds of things I want to hear about from fellow enthusiasts, without seeing every thread deteriorate into a flamewar started by the anti-HD trolls. 

How many FMExtra stations are on the air now?  How many are multicasting unique programming?  How many receivers are on the market?  I suggest there aren't enough to justify allowing you guys to hijack this forum but the administration doesn't seem to care.  Either that or maybe they have their own political motivation to allow this to happen, who knows?

Anyway, there's your answer.  I really don't want to be painted with the broad "pro-iboc contingent" brush because I'm not interested in your debate.  I'm only interested in taking advantage of the new technology and programming that's out there, and the vast majority of that is HD (IBOC), not Kahn or FMExtra.  So I've taken my HD Radio forum contributions elsewhere.   Too bad because this was a good radio site at one time, but sadly it has lost my respect.

 

[700WLW]

The only people turning this into pro- vs. con- IBOC forum are the people with an axe to grind against it. None of the other HD Radio forums on the web are out of control like this one is. That's why I haven't been contributing any more -- I moved onto the other boards where the discussion is much more grown up and enjoyable. Honestly, I don't know how Doug's parents allowed this site to deterorate the way it has. They've really done a disservice to his memory.I should also mention that since this site seems to be all about censorship, you, lucky reader, are one of the few souls fortunate enough to see this comment before it inevitably gets deleted. Oh well, hopefully I'll see some of you around. The rest of you haters enjoy your anti-iboc circle jerk, I won't miss you. Bye...

Well Danny, I see you have returned for your usual insult - yes, all the other HD Boards are pro-IBOC, especially the "other" board, whose moderators get involved in the discussions, and make sure they stay pro-IBOC (they have enen posted a welcome/disclaimer stating they are not pro-IBOC). Like all the other pro-IBOC'ers, you were chased off, because your have no counter-arguments of any merit - we, as many others (just look at all the negative reviews about the Receptor HD on Amazon, and some even explaining how this farse and fraud got started), we have seen though this farse and fraud, called IBOC. Now, be a good boy and run along, just like IBOCRocks - now, that you have also written a eulogy, DON'T COME BACK !

 

[700WLW]

In a very short period of time, one man spends a million dollars out of his own pocket developing a technology that pole-vaults over the best that iBiquity and its predecessors were able accomplish in more than 16 years - spending more than 135 million dollars over that time. I wonder if there isn't at least some degree of jealousy?

He is too late. His solution is AM only. Most broadcasters remember Leonard well for how he killed music AM. The system could be great, but unless it rides on the same platform as FM, manufacturers will not touch it. To waste time with it is to insure the total death of AM. And then no one will worry about sidebands, interference, DXing, etc. as there will be no AM stations.

Leonard Kahn is commercial AM's biggest enemy... he is the wolf to radio's Little Red Riding Hood.

Oh, as said before... the HD rollout is a multi-year proposition. The lower priced receivers are not even on the shelves. What is yur frikkin' obcession with the known-to-be-defective BA uint? We all know it sucks, so let it die already.

Polls/studies have shown that for any chance for HD Radio to survive, that prices of HD radios need to approach that of analog AM/FM radios - there is no way HD radios will approach the $10 - $25 range. Also, with the lack of HD portable radios, for the forseeable future, because of power-supply requirements, this will put the nail in the coffin for HD Radio. Boy, you all just don't get it - spend that $200 million on advertising and have Cheal Channel's 1000 stations broadcast away in HD, but the public and retailers are apathetic towards HD Radio (they poor sales figures back this up). As Mark Ramsey and others have stated, the Receptor HD radio is being watched carefully by the HD Radio Cartel, for the public's initial impression of HD Radio - and we know how well the Receptor HD is selling !

 

[700WLW]

trying to use the memory of a deceased loved one to influence and manipulate the owners to change the direction and operation of this website...Have you no shame?

That's exactly the cop-out response I expected from you and I'm not going to dwell on it. But I believe the guy who founded this site had a passion for the radio business and was proud of the community spirit he built. I don't think he'd be proud to see the vitriolic exchanges happening here, and my opinion stands.

HD Radio is the probably the most interesting thing to be happening in terrestrial radio right now and this forum should be the leading place to talk about its many aspects, but all we have going on here is infantile bickering about its technical merits, led by a small group of you guys with multiple screen names and an agenda to push.

So maybe Kahn is better than IBOC. And maybe Beta is better than VHS. Maybe a Mac is better than a PC. And maybe not -- I really don't care. I've made my choices and when I go into a discussion forum to talk about my PC I don't want to see a bunch of Mac guys attacking Windows in every thread. Most moderators would move that kind of bull without hesitation, but there's no attempt to do the same with the anti-HD minority on this forum.

What seems to be needed here is one forum for people to argue about the engineering aspects of HD radio (and its competitors), and another forum where people not interested in that kind of debate can discuss HD radio programming, new stations on the air, new receivers coming to market etc. without being attacked with anti-HD rhetoric every time.

I have a feeling the engineering area would become a fairly one-sided conversation where all you HD Radio haters (or should I say both of you) would just be talking amongst yourselves, because frankly I don't think anyone else cares. There are hundreds of HD Radio stations on the air, lots of unique HD2 programming, and new radios to be found in stores now. Those are the kinds of things I want to hear about from fellow enthusiasts, without seeing every thread deteriorate into a flamewar started by the anti-HD trolls.

How many FMExtra stations are on the air now? How many are multicasting unique programming? How many receivers are on the market? I suggest there aren't enough to justify allowing you guys to hijack this forum but the administration doesn't seem to care. Either that or maybe they have their own political motivation to allow this to happen, who knows?

Anyway, there's your answer. I really don't want to be painted with the broad "pro-iboc contingent" brush because I'm not interested in your debate. I'm only interested in taking advantage of the new technology and programming that's out there, and the vast majority of that is HD (IBOC), not Kahn or FMExtra. So I've taken my HD Radio forum contributions elsewhere. Too bad because this was a good radio site at one time, but sadly it has lost my respect.

And, how many of your little pro-IBOC'ers have used multiple screen names - SaynotoIBOC/SayNoToSayNoToIBOC/OldGringo/etc and posted inappropriate threads/posts with personal attacks, threats of physical violence, name-calling, etc - oh, I can think of one kook, IBOCRocks. Now, you run along to the "other" board, because the pro-IBOC moderators will protect you over there ! IBOC is a destructive "technology" and a fraud and a farse !

 

[SUPERCASTER]

There is a whole, large section on this board exclusively devoted to formats.
There are no totally new formats exclusive to HD, only the same tired old stuff from the same old sources. So until a format that can only be broadcast on HD is developed, then discussions primarily dealing with formats should be in the appropriate section of this board. Right?
So people like DanCon who feel they are in the wrong place, probably are in the wrong place.

 

[700WLW]

The only people turning this into pro- vs. con- IBOC forum are the people with an axe to grind against it. None of the other HD Radio forums on the web are out of control like this one is. That's why I haven't been contributing any more -- I moved onto the other boards where the discussion is much more grown up and enjoyable.

[EDIT]

I should also mention that since this site seems to be all about censorship, you, lucky reader, are one of the few souls fortunate enough to see this comment before it inevitably gets deleted. Oh well, hopefully I'll see some of you around. [EDIT]

Bye...

[EDIT--two personal attacks.]

Good going Danny boy - you just got two personal attacks edited ! I'm glad, you finally had a major-meltdown, just like IBOCRocks, but be a good boy and stay away ! Oh, I forgot I.B. Iquity, who just logged on - I saw SaynotoIBOC logged on yesterday, so they are still peeking !

 

[SUPERCASTER]

The only people turning this into pro- vs. con- IBOC forum are the people with an axe to grind against it. None of the other HD Radio forums on the web are out of control like this one is. That's why I haven't been contributing any more -- I moved onto the other boards where the discussion is much more grown up and enjoyable.

[EDIT]

I should also mention that since this site seems to be all about censorship, you, lucky reader, are one of the few souls fortunate enough to see this comment before it inevitably gets deleted. Oh well, hopefully I'll see some of you around. [EDIT]

Bye...

[EDIT--two personal attacks.]

Good going Danny boy - you just got two personal attacks edited ! I'm glad, you finally had a major-meltdown, just like IBOCRocks, but be a good boy and stay away ! Oh, I forgot I.B. Iquity, who just logged on - I saw SaynotoIBOC logged on yesterday, so they are still peeking !

The only people turning this into pro- vs. con- IBOC forum are the people with an axe to grind against it.

I have no axe to grind and nothing to personally gain, other then to regain buzz free airwaves, and prevent the public and consumers from being duped by this destructive, defective technology that is being promoted and peddled by the HD cartel to enhance station value and profits at the public's expense.

None of the other HD Radio forums on the web are out of control like this one is.

You are right, some of the other boards are very carefully controlled by pro-HD Radio supporters, who are emplyed by and/or involved in broadcasting HD radio, and are hardly impartial.

That's why I haven't been contributing any more -- I moved onto the other boards where the discussion is much more grown up and enjoyable.

Didn't you mean discussion that is much more cartel grown and agreeable?

I should also mention that since this site seems to be all about censorship, you, lucky reader, are one of the few souls fortunate enough to see this comment before it inevitably gets deleted. Oh well, hopefully I'll see some of you around.

The site you are fleeing to is likely the one that is strongly biased, highly controlled and censored.

DanCon from your (above) edited post is easy to see who is making threats, personal attacks, wants censorship, has an agenda, and is out of control.
Since you have made the demand that it is your way or the highway, I'm glad you hit the highway.

 

[dbdigital]

trying to use the memory of a deceased loved one to influence and manipulate the owners to change the direction and operation of this website...Have you no shame?

That's exactly the cop-out response I expected from you and I'm not going to dwell on it. But I believe the guy who founded this site had a passion for the radio business and was proud of the community spirit he built. I don't think he'd be proud to see the vitriolic exchanges happening here, and my opinion stands.

HD Radio is the probably the most interesting thing to be happening in terrestrial radio right now and this forum should be the leading place to talk about its many aspects, but all we have going on here is infantile bickering about its technical merits, led by a small group of you guys with multiple screen names and an agenda to push.

So maybe Kahn is better than IBOC. And maybe Beta is better than VHS. Maybe a Mac is better than a PC. And maybe not -- I really don't care. I've made my choices and when I go into a discussion forum to talk about my PC I don't want to see a bunch of Mac guys attacking Windows in every thread. Most moderators would move that kind of bull without hesitation, but there's no attempt to do the same with the anti-HD minority on this forum.

What seems to be needed here is one forum for people to argue about the engineering aspects of HD radio (and its competitors), and another forum where people not interested in that kind of debate can discuss HD radio programming, new stations on the air, new receivers coming to market etc. without being attacked with anti-HD rhetoric every time.

I have a feeling the engineering area would become a fairly one-sided conversation where all you HD Radio haters (or should I say both of you) would just be talking amongst yourselves, because frankly I don't think anyone else cares. There are hundreds of HD Radio stations on the air, lots of unique HD2 programming, and new radios to be found in stores now. Those are the kinds of things I want to hear about from fellow enthusiasts, without seeing every thread deteriorate into a flamewar started by the anti-HD trolls.

How many FMExtra stations are on the air now? How many are multicasting unique programming? How many receivers are on the market? I suggest there aren't enough to justify allowing you guys to hijack this forum but the administration doesn't seem to care. Either that or maybe they have their own political motivation to allow this to happen, who knows?

Anyway, there's your answer. I really don't want to be painted with the broad "pro-iboc contingent" brush because I'm not interested in your debate. I'm only interested in taking advantage of the new technology and programming that's out there, and the vast majority of that is HD (IBOC), not Kahn or FMExtra. So I've taken my HD Radio forum contributions elsewhere. Too bad because this was a good radio site at one time, but sadly it has lost my respect.

Debate on any issue should neither be discouraged nor shied away from. What has made this HD Radio forum so interesting and dynamic is the tug-o-war between the pro and con camps of IBOC. It's no tea party, that's for sure.

The sad thing is that the debate over IBOC really shouldn't be happening here but in the halls of the FCC. Granted it took years to develop HD Radio but since that time other, possibly better, technologies have sprung up which should have been considered but were not. For the FCC to rubber stamp IBOC with little debate is wrong and illustrates the cravenness on the part of some who work within the agency or perhaps might be an indicator of some corruption within the agency itself.

As you say digital broadcasting is one of the most interesting developments for terrestrial radio to have come along in years. It will dramatcally impact the broadcaster and listener alike. Now that a digital standard is being established we need to be sure that it's the right one.

I don't believe IBOC is the right one but since the FCC won't debate the issue, this forum is as good a place as any.

db