No, there has been some slight improvement. But the gap is still 6% between U3 and U6 instead of 4%. There is book cooking going on with the U3 number.
And I don't know about you, but 12 percent unemployment is still pretty unacceptable to me.
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Where is the Center
- Thread starter Goat Rodeo Cowboy
- Start date
No, there has been some slight improvement. But the gap is still 6% between U3 and U6 instead of 4%. There is book cooking going on with the U3 number.
And I don't know about you, but 12 percent unemployment is still pretty unacceptable to me.
And I don't know about you, but 12 percent unemployment is still pretty unacceptable to me.
To make this Obama's problem is to say that we need big government to solve things. Is that what you want? Because this is what you get when government doesn't do anything.
If you read through the 300 plus entries in this topic, there are a significant number of posts where the poster was less interested in discussion how radio works, and what the attitudes of people are and what the political leanings of listeners might be, but simply wanted to make a grand political statement on the order of just had bad things are in this country.
Some of us need to slow down and look around us. It was announced last Friday that with 138.4 million Americans currently employed, that is the highest number EVER! And the Unemployment rate is down to 6.3%. When you pull up the table cloth to see what is hiding under there, you come to realize that the weakness in that employment number is that the population of employable people has risen by about SEVEN MILLION during the last 6 to 8 years, so we still hear reports of a lot of hurting people. Part of that is immigration. Part of that is the population bulge the Baby Boomer generation.
That 134.8 million figure is a positive if you want to see it as a positive. During the latter part of the Great Depression, due to population growth, there were also more employed people than previously. But it was still a Depression. There was also a lot of building, hiring, and expansion of various industries during the Great Depression. But it was still a Depression.
The Department of Labor looks at the entire population of the US as well as the number in the labor force when it creates its statistics, and according to the Department of Labor the percentage of working age people who have jobs is the lowest it's been since the 1970s. So far, that trend has not improved.
And if one looked at those statistics closely enough (and I haven't), they may also find that we have -- in sheer numbers -- the most unemployed people ever.
Maybe things are are improving, and are great in your area. I know in some parts of the country, like Texas, things are improving greatly. It's the same with states like North Dakota.
Either way, if the entire economic picture isn't presented to the people, the people are not being fully informed. And I don't think radio is doing its job well enough. I don't think the print media is doing it's job well enough, either. Unfortunately, one has to resort to the internet and sort out the facts as presented by websites -- whether they are business websites, mainstream news sites, progressive sites, and some conservative leaning ones.
PS -- I'm sorry to read about your wife being ill. I hope things improve.
But all that has nothing to do with Obamacare (Affordable Healthcare Act). Under Obamacare you go to the insurance company of your choice and you buy health insurance. Just like you go to the insurance company of your choice and automobile insurance. If you are a bad, bad driver and no insurance company wants to do business with you, then you go to your state assigned risk pool and they HAVE TO sell you insurance but the price gets ugly.
Under Obamacare you get to go to your doctor who is not a government employee and he/she is paid by your insurance company which is not government owned. How can you with a straight face call that "European Style Socialized Medicine"? And when you need hospital services you go to a hospital that IS NOT owned by the Federal government. Most are not-for-profit. Some are owned by cities and counties. Some are owned by publicly traded for-profit companies. That doesn't smell like socialism in my understanding of how this world is put together.
The incorrect information broadcast daily on many radio stations by Talk Radio for the last several years about Obamacare should be an embarrassment to the industry.
Even though you and I could argue about the benefits and detriments of Obamacare, and the timing of its implementation, I agree with you here. It is government regulated private enterprise, augmented by expanded Medicaid -- not socialised medicine.
Those numbers come directly from the BLS. Portal Seven seems to be some website that takes government reports and makes them into charts for people to read. Everything there is sourced.
Do you know how I know you have no idea what you're talking about? You're questioning sources and can't be bothered to Google what U6 unemplyment is, even though I explained it to you.
So I'll do the "Unemployment for Dummies" version for you.
U3 is the number we see every month. That doesn't include people who are stuck in part time jobs but would LIKE to work full time, and people who have completely given up looking for work. U6 includes all of those people. It's the true "unemployment" number and is less susceptible to manipulation by hacks like the ones who apparently write every article you read. Your record number of people working is once again due to THERE BEING MORE PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY.
There is a slight improvement over the last 5 disastrous years, but you are trying to tell us that things have never been better.
Let me introduce you to a concept that seems to be foreign to your view of life. it is actually possible for human beings who do not fully agree with each other to have a discussion without continually insulting each other.
The longer you and I debate these issues, the more you will realize that I spend a lot of time and energy reviewing, investigating and double-checking resources. I have come across a lot of websites that claim to deliver facts. Some do a very good job of that. Some are despicable machines that give out corrupted data. I never heard of PortalSeven. You say it "seems to be some website that takes government reports and makes them into charts for people to read." I want to know if I can trust them, or do they bend and shape the data while no one is looking. Who funds it. Who are the people behind the site and what else are they known for. It's a fair question and you should not take offense that I ask. And if you have no idea of whether they have integrity or not, why would you risk your reputation by building your philosophy and direction on what might be "cooked books" by PortalSeven who in turn is serving up information you claim is already "cooked books" in the government agency that originally publishes them.
Let me demonstrate how people of good will and good intentions have conversation. The numbers you presented as "bad news" are actually worse than just the numbers you presented. Not only is our population growing... resulting in even more people being unemployed today than several years ago, but the ugly truth is also that many of the people who are working are working below their skills level, working for lower wages than they used to, and working less than a full work-week in many cases. That's a fact you and I both have to take to the bank when it comes to trying to make sense of the world in which we live.
I did not say that "things have never been better". I said that one aspect of this picture... the number of people working is the biggest number of our era. I fully recognize that some of them have taken a job that is less desirable than the one they used to have, they have taken a job that does not have a logical career path. It's a crappy job. But it beats sitting at home wishing you had somewhere to go and work. It beats sitting at home and having NO INCOME at all.
I deliver this little "sermon" with some battle scars to back it up. 22 years ago our economy was going through a bit of a rough patch and I found myself unemployed. There was this "new kid on the block" called Best Buy that came to town and opened up four stores. I took a deep breath and signed on to work for a big reduction in pay from what I had been making. I found myself working under harsh policies that I found unbelievable for the times. They were succeeding because they had something of a "we take no prisoners" work ethic. You DO or you DIE. And the day they went public, management broke open a big shipping box and pulled out bright blue winter jackets for each of us that only people who live through Minnesota winters could design and appreciate. I won't wear the damn thing in public. But it hangs in my closet to this day and I wear it when I need to get out and work in the yard in cold weather. And it was a happy, happy day when the economy kept improving until the day I was able to inform my supervisor that I would be leaving for a "real job". And then, four or five years later, the new employer went "slam the doors shut today... we are bankrupt!" I jokingly tell people that we were the dress rehearsal for ENRON a year later.
I'm not some kind of pump that sprays liberal drivel on the yard while claiming it is weed killer. For 30 something years I was a pretty good missionary for things conservative in wonderful seedbed known as Indiana. And then I woke up one day and realized that both conservatives and liberals carry big long knives they can stick in your back when "the time is right".
If you are going to come here and have any kind of useful conversation, you need to add two things to your toolkit. (1) Treat other people as thought they might be valid human beings. I know its going to be hard, but you can do it. (2) Tell the truth. It can be an enjoyable experience.
And the truth for today includes the fact that whether the number is real, or the number is just cooked books, the government did report last Friday that 138.4 million people are currently employed, and that is the largest number since 2008.
P.S. Have you noticed that the Dow Jones Industrial Average or as we usually say: "The Stock Market", is at an all-time high. So is that a case of cooked books also? It must be so, because I heard it on the radio!
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Even though you and I could argue about the benefits and detriments of Obamacare, and the timing of its implementation, I agree with you here. It is government regulated private enterprise, augmented by expanded Medicaid -- not socialised medicine.
For decades major players in both political parties have wanted to tackle the health care issues but it was not an issue that could be addressed without a lot of push and shove. Yes, there are some really great benefits or steps forward in the new law, and yes, it has some really ugly issues that are going to have to be repaired, sanded and painted.
It reminds me of the old cliche that a camel "is a horse... designed by a committee."
If Talk Radio had acted like a grown up during the debates and implementation of Obamacare instead of acting like a five year old having a temper-tantrum... we could have been looking at a better law today. As congress goes about the business now of cleaning up and perfecting the mechanics of the ACA, if Talk Radio keeps on doing going forward what they have been doing about (and to) Obamacare, it could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. The public could reach the point of saying: "A pox on your house" resulting in Talk Radio fading into history faster that some have predicted in these discussions in the last week.
But there is more than "The Law" in play here. There were some changes that various players in healthcare wanted to make but they knew they would be unpopular. The insurance industry needed to change. The hospital industry needed to change. Employers wanted benefit plan changes. The medical profession needed to change. All of them are creating some changes not required by Obamacare, but when the public outcry arises over the changes, they just put on their "pious look" and say: Well we had to do that because of Obamacare. And if you don't eat, sleep and live this topic, how would you know if they are telling the truth or not. Talk Radio is certainly not going to tell us if it is truth or not.
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I quoted a news report from Friday as to how many people are now employed. Is the 138.4 million number not accurate? If the answer is no, then why don't you produce for us the correct number, and its documentation.
The numbers are accurate, but at the same time, are very misleading. The government statisticians regard anyone whose unemployment insurance has expired as "no longer looking". The government counts someone who lost a full time job paying $50,000 a year and who managed to find a part-time job at $10 an hour as "an unemployed person who is now back to work".
So, the truth of the matter is that you DO need an economist with at least an MBa (A PhD is overkill) to truly understand government unemployment statistics.
Or, to put it another way, they're a lot like radio ratings.
If Talk Radio had acted like a grown up during the debates and implementation of Obamacare instead of acting like a five year old having a temper-tantrum... we could have been looking at a better law today. As congress goes about the business now of cleaning up and perfecting the mechanics of the ACA, if Talk Radio keeps on doing going forward what they have been doing about (and to) Obamacare, it could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. The public could reach the point of saying: "A pox on your house" resulting in Talk Radio fading into history faster that some have predicted in these discussions in the last week.
BINGO! Nailed it.
That is a HUGE problem with today's talkradio: Partisanship over honesty.
Over the years it has become increasingly difficult to have reasonable conversation on-air, because you have to spend so much time untangling the misinformation bandied about by so many other hosts. This isn't about a difference of opinion, this is about demonstrably false information that you now have to battle just to have an honest conversation. You have seen one so-called host lie about Obamacare right in this very thread, so you can only imagine the falsehoods he continues to spread on the air. It's disgusting.
As an honest host, it's at a point where you have to not just know facts, but also be aware of the misinformation, lies and Beckian-style conspiracy garbage, just so that you know what callers are referring to when they start regurgitating it all. It's such an incredible waste of time and energy.
The damage these clowns have done to the format is irreversible. I used to think there was time to save it, but not any more. It really pains me to admit that. But with the all-in-with-the-wingnut-talk mentality that the big companies have shown in recent years, it's obvious they'll just squeeze what revenue they can out of it until the clock runs out.
For listeners, there are too many other reasons to NOT come back to talkradio. The format used to be interesting and entertaining. Now it's just a bitter, angry, rightwing rhetoric machine. Worst of all, it's just so predictable and boring.
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The damage these clowns have done to the format is irreversible. I used to think there was time to save it, but not any more.
This just in: Ratings for NYC are in, and the top two talk stations, WABC and WOR are tied for 19th place at 1.6. In the 25-54 demo, WABC has a .4 and WOR has a .6. That's not good. The people have spoken.
They want talk radio they can trust and believe. They want talk radio that talks about subjects THEY'RE interested in. And right now, talk radio isn't providing it.
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Oh, SMG... I don't see your response to the observation that Talk Radio told us Obamacare was Socialized Medicine, European style, but here we are in the Obamacare era still buying insurance coverage from insurance companies, and still going to doctors for treatment that are not government employees.
I see you've noticed that the transition to European style socialized medicine is a process, not an event. Perhaps if you heard the entire story, you'd have noticed that one of the biggest accusations made about Obamacare is that it was deliberately designed with a "Phase One" stage which is what we have now, that was intended to fail miserably, as it is doing now. That failure was intended to make Phase Two, European-style socialism, seem like a preferable option. The people who picked Obama to be their puppet are not stupid. They know how to get what they want, and they're willing to engage in a long process to achieve goals. They also rely on the useful idiots who'll mock anyone who issues warnings about, calling them "conspiracy nuts" and worse. That also helps the process.
Over the years it has become increasingly difficult to have reasonable conversation on-air, because you have to spend so much time untangling the misinformation bandied about by so many other hosts. This isn't about a difference of opinion, this is about demonstrably false information that you now have to battle just to have an honest conversation. You have seen one so-called host lie about Obamacare right in this very thread, so you can only imagine the falsehoods he continues to spread on the air.
I have less and less confidence every day as to whether he is actually on the air any where. He may just be living out his fantasy here in the discussion group.
That failure was intended to make Phase Two, European-style socialism, seem like a preferable option.
Only one small problem with your logic: If it fails, it's going to hurt the governing party in the next election, thus keeping it from getting elected, and preventing it from enacting phase 2. Whoops.
I see you've noticed that the transition to European style socialized medicine is a process, not an event. Perhaps if you heard the entire story, you'd have noticed that one of the biggest accusations made about Obamacare is that it was deliberately designed with a "Phase One" stage which is what we have now, that was intended to fail miserably, as it is doing now. That failure was intended to make Phase Two, European-style socialism, seem like a preferable option.
The stage is all yours. Let's see you come up with some kind of documentation on that wagon load of garden fertilizer.
Who has called it Phase One?
Maybe the better plan would have been Hillarycare. Do you know the basic difference between Hillarycare and Obamacare? If you had to choose from those two, which would you select?
So! If Hillary is elected President in 2016, will she convert Obamacare by grafting Hillarycare onto it? You seem to thrive on conspiracy. Try that one on for size.
There has been some fatalism expressed over the future of Talk Radio in some recent posts. Maybe this "Grafting Conspiracy" would be enough to keep Radio Talk alive another five years after all.
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I have less and less confidence every day as to whether he is actually on the air any where. He may just be living out his fantasy here in the discussion group.
SMG is on the air. I subscribe to his show interviews on Youtube.
HTH
Perhaps if you heard the entire story, you'd have noticed that one of the biggest accusations made about Obamacare is that it was deliberately designed with a "Phase One" stage which is what we have now, that was intended to fail miserably, as it is doing now.
Really?
Gee, I wonder WHO made THAT accusation?
This oughta be good.
To make this Obama's problem is to say that we need big government to solve things. Is that what you want? Because this is what you get when government doesn't do anything.
Of course it isn't just Obama's problem. He has had a LOT of help. I'd say about 450 of the 535 members of Congress are complicit in this as well. Add on top of that thousands of lifers in various executive agencies and you have a systematic problem.
I have less and less confidence every day as to whether he is actually on the air any where. He may just be living out his fantasy here in the discussion group.
I think I've figured out why you're so hateful. I'm on the air and you washed out of the business decades ago.
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This just in: Ratings for NYC are in, and the top two talk stations, WABC and WOR are tied for 19th place at 1.6. In the 25-54 demo, WABC has a .4 and WOR has a .6. That's not good. The people have spoken.
They want talk radio they can trust and believe. They want talk radio that talks about subjects THEY'RE interested in. And right now, talk radio isn't providing it.
You mean conservative talk radio isn't doing well in one of the most liberal cities in the country? It would be more shocking if those stations DID do well. Have you seen the guy they elected mayor?
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SMG is on the air. I subscribe to his show interviews on Youtube.
HTH
Thanks, but don't bother. He wouldn't believe it if I had him in my studio.
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