Where're The Listeners?

[DeadAudicy]

For the sake of discussion let's say you have mid-range talent making $500K annually (plus add 20% for benefits) in PM drive. Right now you have $750K in net revenues for this particular station 6AM-Mid. It's safe to assume that if you broke it out, just the PM drive portion of your total revenues on a good year would be in the range of $325K annually. That means your PM drive runs negative $175K. Sure without a PM drive host you may not command the same rate to attain the $325K without the talent, but you gain a much better margin because your expense is cut in half. Advertisers will still buy PM drive and even at a lower rate, without the big salary contributing to four of an eighteen hour broadcast day.

Going out on a limb here, thinking you might want to change your numbers to reflect a more useable metric.

 

[TVradioguru]

Nope! I'm good with the numbers. In fact the numbers are directly from an actual situation, rounded.

 

[djj]

>>the era of rising values has come to a screeching halt>>

I'd say that's a major understatement.

Agreeable...

From all the theories and ideas spewed out since Skyrocker's intial post, the bottom-line is -
and gawd, I HATE using that term, "bottom-line" - radio has gone from an "art-form" (such
as early Rock formats were in the 1950s/60s, with DJs adding the spice), to an alleged
"perfect science" (what we have today, with DJs not allowed to add much spice)...

I share Skyrocker's sentiments on this...

Whatever creative vein of broadcast radio remains has been moved to the non-commercial FM band,
or the internet...

Do you like what you hear on the AM or FM bands presently?

Alas, broadcasting "from the gut" is over...and, with management continuing its "winning ways,"
that style of broadcasting is not coming back, much as most of us would like it to...

Sad...
--jay

 

[TVradioguru]

I'm sure there are those that once longed for the days of horse drawn carriages, drive-in theaters, and .50 a gallon gas. As with anything, time marches on.

Oh and to answer your question.. Do I like AM and FM radio? Yes, very much, I listen every day! More FM than AM actually.

 

[DeadAudicy]

For the sake of discussion let's say you have mid-range talent making $500K annually (plus add 20% for benefits) in PM drive. Right now you have $750K in net revenues for this particular station 6AM-Mid. It's safe to assume that if you broke it out, just the PM drive portion of your total revenues on a good year would be in the range of $325K annually. That means your PM drive runs negative $175K. Sure without a PM drive host you may not command the same rate to attain the $325K without the talent, but you gain a much better margin because your expense is cut in half. Advertisers will still buy PM drive and even at a lower rate, without the big salary contributing to four of an eighteen hour broadcast day.

Nice. Mid range talent, non morning, pulling down half a mil in radio, on a station that only bills 325K for the time slot. Is that typical enough for use as an example of why talent is dispensable?

 

[radioman148]

>>I'm sure there are those that once longed for the days of horse drawn carriages, drive-in theaters, and .50 a gallon gas. >>

Hey I remember when gas was .35 ;D

 

[landtuna]

Hey I remember when gas was .35 ;D

Gotcha beat. I remember .25 - and it didn't smell like a toxic substance.

 

[ithappenedtome]

In effort to provide full disclosure I am one of those out of work DJs and have been for a couple of months now. While sitting on the beach I have had plenty of time to ponder what is wrong with radio.....call me bitter but I think I have some insight. I was in top 40 and fall right in the middle of the demo.

Had the newspapers had the foresight to see the 24 hour news channels coming I don't think that they would be where they are right now. They already had experienced reporters in the field and on the scene of most breaking news....they should have been able to own the 24 hour cable news channels (I don't think that they would have run into any ownership issues because I am talking about cable). But they only wanted to do print, they didn't hire more people to make news channels work. This relates to radio because we are allowing the same thing to happen. We could own some of the emerging internet technology while using 100k transmitters to promote it, why was Clear Channel (well other than Citadel, Cumulus etc) one of the last companies in the nation to have an iphone app? And we won't even discuss the fact it only allows you to play radio, think outside the box. I know someone building apps and making money a radio company could only dream of. Why are DJ blogs seemingly an after thought on the station website (I am not judging the DJs since mine wasn't updated as often as I would've liked) yet people are searching out blogs about nothing (except daily life cooking, kids etc) by the millions like Dooce, thepioneerwoman, bakerella. Those blogs are making hundreds of thousands + in advertising a year and could only dream of having a radio station to help promote them. We live in a world where people consume celebrity gossip and reality TV on a daily basis they are looking to see people be real and get a glimpse into peoples daily lives. DJs were the first to do this and therefore should be the best. The advertising dollars certainly wouldn't have come from the mom and pop shop down the street to support these things but if any of these things were good enough to stand on their own without the help of the station there would be national money to pay for it. Why can't a DJ blog be as good as Dooce? Why isn't Pollstar run by a radio company? Why aren't stations creating compelling apps for iphone and facebook that could be used on a national level, even if they have nothing to do with radio? Radio people have some of the most twisted, crazy and creative minds anywhere and there is no reason they couldn't do it other than the fact they don't have time. DJs lost the time to do what came to them naturally when we got rid of the promotions assistants, promotions directors, production people, weekend folks, etc. While we should have been hiring computer programmers, web gurus and graphic designers. Our listeners probably didn't notice when we lost a promotions person or 2 or even a local DJ. I have a feeling most people can't even tell you why they don't listen to the radio as much as they used to but radio is going to pay for it's lack of connection to the listeners and innovation for a long time. We could have become a part of just about every facet of peoples daily lives and passed up the opportunity. Hopefully we won't go the same way as the print media.

 

[radioman148]

Hey I remember when gas was .35 ;D

Gotcha beat. I remember .25 - and it didn't smell like a toxic substance.

Was that ethyl? (insert joke here).

 

[TVradioguru]

Nice. Mid range talent, non morning, pulling down half a mil in radio, on a station that only bills 325K for the time slot. Is that typical enough for use as an example of why talent is dispensable?

Sure, you can move the total numbers up or down depending on market size, but the ratio more times than not remains very similar. Granted there are instances where you may choose to leave the talent in-place because they do a good job away from the mic helping promote the station, or perhaps they are one of your only live people on the air left. The cliff-effect occurs when their value, albeit a loss, drops further below a predetermined threshold. When you're paying someone 1990's salary with 2009 sales figures, something eventually has to give.

Believe me, I don't enjoy having to let anyone go from our operations. Every time I look at spreadsheets with cash-flow numbers from every single station going negative, I dread that upcoming phone call to the station GM. Even more unfortunate is knowing there is long-tenured airstaff caught in the crossfire.

My job is to make the owners (shareholders) money. The airstaff job is to bring in and keep listeners.

The challenge is in a world of 'I-want-what-I-want-when-I-want-it', even with air talent that was once popular because they were the only game in town (for the demographic), appears to be no longer relevant to the majority of listeners. Sad? Yes it is... But its also the reality we are having to deal with.

 

[Zeb Norris]

Going out on a limb here, thinking you might want to change your numbers to reflect a more useable metric.

Lol... bitter 'cause YOU aren't making 500k?

With that metric I have to retract my pervious comment about being rich.

 

[SFStatic]

500 grand seems more like morning show money the last few years. Haven't heard of any PM drivers in the SF market making close to that kind of money.

 

[djj]

... I have a feeling most people can't even tell you why they don't listen to the radio as much as they used to but radio is going to pay for its lack of connection to the listeners and innovation for a long time. We could have become a part of just about every facet of people's daily lives and passed up the opportunity. Hopefully we won't go the same way as the print media.

Well said, IHTM...radio has become a lost culture to those of us that have embraced it for years before, and has
done little over the years to prepare for the Internet era...

Hope your next endeavor in radio comes sooner than later, should you decide to continue in that arena...
--jay

 

[DavidKaye]

I don't think that most listeners can tell the difference between live and local and voice-tracked any longer.

Jocks don't give time or temperature checks anymore, or read live commercial copy. A few take phone calls from "listeners," but we all know those can be pre-recorded.

When I was a kid Wolfman Jack was deep in Mexico taking calls from listeners and playing R&B songs. He said he was in "Hollywood" but we never believed it. It sure sounded like he was in Mexico, spinning records just like we later saw in American Graffiti. I mean, heck, in just a matter of moments he could get busted for those baby chicks he was selling on the air, or whatever nasty things people do in Mexico. He'd have all those crazy kids call, and one time I remember him asking a pubescent girl to get naked with him. We were sure he was going to get shut down at any moment by the police.

But the Wolfman was recorded a day in advance and the callers were actually listening to the previous evening's show when they phoned in. The tapes were driven from Hollywood to Rosarito Beach each day. So, even the king of late night radio, the man we all revered -- was on tape!

 

[radioman148]

I don't think that most listeners can tell the difference between live and local and voice-tracked any longer.

Jocks don't give time or temperature checks anymore, or read live commercial copy. A few take phone calls from "listeners," but we all know those can be pre-recorded.

When I was a kid Wolfman Jack was deep in Mexico taking calls from listeners and playing R&B songs. He said he was in "Hollywood" but we never believed it. It sure sounded like he was in Mexico, spinning records just like we later saw in American Graffiti. I mean, heck, in just a matter of moments he could get busted for those baby chicks he was selling on the air, or whatever nasty things people do in Mexico. He'd have all those crazy kids call, and one time I remember him asking a pubescent girl to get naked with him. We were sure he was going to get shut down at any moment by the police.

But the Wolfman was recorded a day in advance and the callers were actually listening to the previous evening's show when they phoned in. The tapes were driven from Hollywood to Rosarito Beach each day. So, even the king of late night radio, the man we all revered -- was on tape!

In 66 & 67 Wolfman was not only on at night, but during the day as well. Lots of tapes were being transported.

 

[LKellerIII]

I don't think that most listeners can tell the difference between live and local and voice-tracked any longer.

Jocks don't give time or temperature checks anymore, or read live commercial copy. A few take phone calls from "listeners," but we all know those can be pre-recorded.

When I was a kid Wolfman Jack was deep in Mexico taking calls from listeners and playing R&B songs. He said he was in "Hollywood" but we never believed it. It sure sounded like he was in Mexico, spinning records just like we later saw in American Graffiti. I mean, heck, in just a matter of moments he could get busted for those baby chicks he was selling on the air, or whatever nasty things people do in Mexico. He'd have all those crazy kids call, and one time I remember him asking a pubescent girl to get naked with him. We were sure he was going to get shut down at any moment by the police.

But the Wolfman was recorded a day in advance and the callers were actually listening to the previous evening's show when they phoned in. The tapes were driven from Hollywood to Rosarito Beach each day. So, even the king of late night radio, the man we all revered -- was on tape!

If you lived in LA and could get XERB in the daytime, you knew Wolfman Jack was on tape, because it's just not humanly possible to be live on the air 24 hours a day.

In the mid 60s, my father was an animator working at Jay Ward Productions on Sunset Blvd at Havenhurst. The somewhat famous statue of Rocky and Bullwinkle is still in front of the building, which is now a doggie day-care facility.

XERB studios were a half block west in a dumpy one-story building. You could only tell it was XERB because they had one of those cheap light-up sign boxes in the window with stick-on letters...the kind pizza parlors and other small retail businesses like beauty parlors used. I think the sign just said "XERB - the Mighty 1090.". I only visited my dad at work occasionally, and I never saw Wolfman on the street, but always figured that's where he taped his shows.

 

[SFStatic]

I believe that before this, he actually was in Texas, and they carried the tapes across the border to XERF in Acuna. can remember hearing him, along with crazy preachers, etc. on that flamethrower back in the 60's. If not mistaken, he later started doing the XERB gig from SoCal. Of course, it was always recorded, just like his syndicated show later on. Still some darned great radio!

 

[radioman148]

I believe that before this, he actually was in Texas, and they carried the tapes across the border to XERF in Acuna. can remember hearing him, along with crazy preachers, etc. on that flamethrower back in the 60's. If not mistaken, he later started doing the XERB gig from SoCal. Of course, it was always recorded, just like his syndicated show later on. Still some darned great radio!

Yes--XERF was across the border from Del Rio, Texas.
Wolfman's show was recorded & if you listened enough you'd hear some of his phone calls played again, but it definitely was great radio.

 

[DavidKaye]

I believe that before this, he actually was in Texas, and they carried the tapes across the border to XERF in Acuna. can remember hearing him, along with crazy preachers, etc. on that flamethrower back in the 60's. If not mistaken, he later started doing the XERB gig from SoCal. Of course, it was always recorded, just like his syndicated show later on. Still some darned great radio!

The fact that it was recorded did not make a difference to the listening audience. That's the point. Now, take a station like KMEL or KYLD. Should it matter if the DJs are live or recorded?

 

[davideduardo]

I believe that before this, he actually was in Texas, and they carried the tapes across the border to XERF in Acuna. can remember hearing him, along with crazy preachers, etc. on that flamethrower back in the 60's. If not mistaken, he later started doing the XERB gig from SoCal. Of course, it was always recorded, just like his syndicated show later on. Still some darned great radio!

If I recall correctly what the manager of XERF, Sergio Ballesteros, told me, they would only tape in Del Rio if they could not cross the bridge to go to the XERF studio. The Del Rio studio was pretty much some remote gear and a recorder in an apartment bedroom.

As has been said, the fact that nobody could tell the difference... or cared... is a big case against the belief that live and local is the cure-all for radio.