-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
WHFB-AM
- Thread starter b344077
- Start date
WSBT also opened up a translator at 96.1. It rebroadcasts WSBT-AM.
Too bad about WHFB-AM, I listened to Universtity of Michigan Football when I was a teenager in Stickney. After the license expires, can anyone apply for the frequency. My guess is that AM plus a FM translator would work well.
Too bad about WHFB-AM, I listened to Universtity of Michigan Football when I was a teenager in Stickney. After the license expires, can anyone apply for the frequency. My guess is that AM plus a FM translator would work well.
You cannot apply for a new Class D facility. Someone would have to put it back on the air if the license is still active. WHFB is barely outside the 0.5 mV/m protected skywave contour of KYW. For it to operate as a Class B, it would have to be at least far enough outside the protected skywave to be 250 watts or 141 mV/m RMS inverse field at one kilometer. Normally that would be quite directional.
I see no way it could be meaningfully moved to near Chicago, since WLIP Kenosha is on 1050, and actually has a decent 250 watt nondirectional signal day and night. And the FCC won't allow any more split frequencies, even if it might allow a substantial day power increase for WLIP on 1060. I don't think sending the pattern over the lake into Michigan would do WLIP much good either. The most WLIP could be is 500 watts on 1050 at night under the treaty with Mexico, even if directional, as I recall. WEPN is a special case.
I see no way it could be meaningfully moved to near Chicago, since WLIP Kenosha is on 1050, and actually has a decent 250 watt nondirectional signal day and night. And the FCC won't allow any more split frequencies, even if it might allow a substantial day power increase for WLIP on 1060. I don't think sending the pattern over the lake into Michigan would do WLIP much good either. The most WLIP could be is 500 watts on 1050 at night under the treaty with Mexico, even if directional, as I recall. WEPN is a special case.
I am very surprised they stayed on as long as they did.
I listened off and on for years, I remember them as a nostalgia station, then all 70's and HLN, before going all talk.
I don't think they have had a paid spot during on the bird shows in years. It either all network feed or psa's.
This station was really a ghost town. Did they have any local news or weather at all?
That signal is really stuck, they could not move to Chicago because of WLIP 1050 and WNWI 1080.
Being just within KYW's protected area, night power of over 250 watts would be tough to get, even if they could they would have to be very directional out over the lake. It would most likely not worth it.
They did at one time get 13 watts at night, it was taken away and changed to 1.6 watts, because it was said to be interferring with KYW. I thought this was a little crazy, I doubt that low power caused much trouble for 50kW, but I'm not an expert.
I am surprised that they wouldn't have tried to stay on a couple more months to get some political money. Michigan, unlike Illinois looks to be in play for The Presidential race.
Did they even have a sales staff? The daytime signal is actually not bad, it can be heard in a good part of the Chicago area. I was thinking for a while now that this station could have served a nice little niche like soft ac or Americas Best Music. Since they do get into Chicago and South Bend which have no stations like that.
I used to live not to far from Riverdale where WNWI's site is and I never had trouble during the day. Most days I could get them decent during CH.
I guess WLIP could get a little more day power, that would involve going directional and having to still protect 1050 in Decatur and 1060 in, I believe Dixon, Il?
Perhaps that 1060 could loosen up a little by day to get onto Rockford and Dekalb a little more?
It is sad to see another little AM die off when it could make a nice little local or niche station.
While I have the ear of some of the pros here, how do so many stations within the 750 mile skywave signal, some closer to the 500 mile mark get night power? I know that they usually only get 1 or 2 watts, but I thought it had to be 750 miles.
Can almost any class D get a watt or 2 at night?
I would like to ask a few more questions, they would probably be better suited for a different section.
I listened off and on for years, I remember them as a nostalgia station, then all 70's and HLN, before going all talk.
I don't think they have had a paid spot during on the bird shows in years. It either all network feed or psa's.
This station was really a ghost town. Did they have any local news or weather at all?
That signal is really stuck, they could not move to Chicago because of WLIP 1050 and WNWI 1080.
Being just within KYW's protected area, night power of over 250 watts would be tough to get, even if they could they would have to be very directional out over the lake. It would most likely not worth it.
They did at one time get 13 watts at night, it was taken away and changed to 1.6 watts, because it was said to be interferring with KYW. I thought this was a little crazy, I doubt that low power caused much trouble for 50kW, but I'm not an expert.
I am surprised that they wouldn't have tried to stay on a couple more months to get some political money. Michigan, unlike Illinois looks to be in play for The Presidential race.
Did they even have a sales staff? The daytime signal is actually not bad, it can be heard in a good part of the Chicago area. I was thinking for a while now that this station could have served a nice little niche like soft ac or Americas Best Music. Since they do get into Chicago and South Bend which have no stations like that.
I used to live not to far from Riverdale where WNWI's site is and I never had trouble during the day. Most days I could get them decent during CH.
I guess WLIP could get a little more day power, that would involve going directional and having to still protect 1050 in Decatur and 1060 in, I believe Dixon, Il?
Perhaps that 1060 could loosen up a little by day to get onto Rockford and Dekalb a little more?
It is sad to see another little AM die off when it could make a nice little local or niche station.
While I have the ear of some of the pros here, how do so many stations within the 750 mile skywave signal, some closer to the 500 mile mark get night power? I know that they usually only get 1 or 2 watts, but I thought it had to be 750 miles.
Can almost any class D get a watt or 2 at night?
I would like to ask a few more questions, they would probably be better suited for a different section.
Another question: Why would you keep your license and go silent if you have no intention of returning to the air? Is it the ownership's hope to sell the license for a few dollars?
Wright County Guy said:Another question: Why would you keep your license and go silent if you have no intention of returning to the air? Is it the ownership's hope to sell the license for a few dollars?
There's always the possibility that some of the "new" owner/investor types will purchase the facility and use it for what I refer to as a "Slum Lord Broadcasting" leasing it out to the gold brokers, pill peddlers etc.
Strangely there are a lot of these types of operators in the Dallas Fort Worth market. Many day-timer only rim-shots have been moved in and pumped up to the maximum daytime power available for the specific frequency, in some cases a full 50K. None of these new additions have the ability for any pre/post sunrise/set operation.
A recent station moved all the way in from Oklahoma where the owner built a four tower directional running 5KW on 850khz. Of course there is NO WAY this station will ever get night-time authorization because of the closeness of KOA. Yet still, someone poured the capital into the project to build it.
Class Ds with less than 250 watts and less than 141 mV/m inverse field at 1 kilometer do not have to be 750 miles away for sure. Some operating Class D stations fall into this category, and run as much as 200-215 watts DA at night. And full Class B protection would be possible in many cases in the northern part of the US due to the fact that many Class As do NOT get a 0.5 mV/m 50% skywave out 750 miles. This is because the method of calculating skywave has changed downward due to use of geomagnetic north pole based latitude midpoint calculations.
There may be an unpublished FCC policy to not allow Class B stations closer than 750 miles, but I cannot find published rules that say that, only hearsay. If any of you know where the rule is actually PUBLISHED, or if you know it to be an unpublished FCC policy, let me know.
In any event, Chicago and surrounding area would not allow even close to 250 watts even with a DA. The KYW protected nighttime skywave contour is quite a bit closer than the WBZ protected nighttime skywave contour. The night situation with WNVR is quite a bit better due to this. By the time you tried to squeeze 1060 in further west than Chicago, you'd run into other cochannel and adjacent channel considerations.
There may be an unpublished FCC policy to not allow Class B stations closer than 750 miles, but I cannot find published rules that say that, only hearsay. If any of you know where the rule is actually PUBLISHED, or if you know it to be an unpublished FCC policy, let me know.
In any event, Chicago and surrounding area would not allow even close to 250 watts even with a DA. The KYW protected nighttime skywave contour is quite a bit closer than the WBZ protected nighttime skywave contour. The night situation with WNVR is quite a bit better due to this. By the time you tried to squeeze 1060 in further west than Chicago, you'd run into other cochannel and adjacent channel considerations.
Thanks for clarifying things. This is just a hypothetical question could stations such as WWHN 1510, WMBI 1110 or WJJG 1530 get 1 or 2 watts at night?
I know it would probably useless for most of these stations, you probably could not hear them a block from the tower, just curiosity on my part.
A station I have often wondered about is WAIT, although KOA booms in loud especially in winter, couldn't WAIT recieve authorazation, being they are out of KOA's protected airspace?
If a small station is co owned by a powerful AM, could they get nightime power from the FCC, because they would only be causing interference to their own station?
Thank you
I know it would probably useless for most of these stations, you probably could not hear them a block from the tower, just curiosity on my part.
A station I have often wondered about is WAIT, although KOA booms in loud especially in winter, couldn't WAIT recieve authorazation, being they are out of KOA's protected airspace?
If a small station is co owned by a powerful AM, could they get nightime power from the FCC, because they would only be causing interference to their own station?
Thank you
One other element is the lack of coverage in Southwestern Michigan. Oh you have both Chicago and South Bend coming in but no local news or sports other than the LP in Three Oaks.
There isn't even a public TV station that provides Michigan programming. One would have thought the Public TV station in Grand Rapids would have established a Translator.
For radio, WHFB provided a full service type of station some years ago. It is a shame that it fell into the shape it was.
There isn't even a public TV station that provides Michigan programming. One would have thought the Public TV station in Grand Rapids would have established a Translator.
For radio, WHFB provided a full service type of station some years ago. It is a shame that it fell into the shape it was.
WAIT (WCPT)(WCLR) 850 is either too close to or is within KOA's nighttime 0.5 mV/m 50% skywave contour. The rest that you mention are probably either within a Class A skywave service area or it would be so low power or require such extreme directionalization and low power so that it would not be worthwhile.
- Status
- This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.