Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

[bpatrick]

Back in the early '70s the Art Fleming version of "Jeopardy!"
and "The Who, What Or Where Game" ran back-to-back on
NBC's daytime schedule. The two shows were similar, in that
both had players betting on their ability to answer difficult questions.
For those who weren't around, or have forgotten, on "the 3Ws" each
category had a who, what, and where question; odds were assigned
to each question (even money to 5-1) according to the difficulty. Players
started with an initial stake of $125 and could bet up to $50 on the "W"
of his or her choice; the highest bidder in a category got the question, and
if two players chose the same category and amount, the question was
auctioned to the highest bidder. In the final round, called "Pot Limit," players
could wager up to everything they had. High money winner returned to the
next show.

I actually liked the "3Ws" better; I thought the questions more challenging
(once, playing the home game, I stunned my dad by identifying "To Anacreon
In Heaven" as the tune for "The Star-Spangled Banner"). Which did you prefer;
likewise, you're welcome to tell me if you prefer Trebek's "Jeopardy!" or Dick Clark's
"3Ws" semi-revival, "The Challengers."

And while we're at it, how about your preference: the "3Ws" or its ABC competition
from 1972: "Split Second"? Frankly, although the game was sound, I never thought
Tom Kennedy could keep pace with it.

 

[WPPCProductions]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

I never got a chance to watch Jeopardy or "Who, What Or Where" then.I was in school.But I did like "Lets make a Deal" with Monty Hall.Also The Dating Game and the Newlywed Game at the time on my days off from school. I watch the current Jeopardy all the time.

 

[anotherguyTN]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

I never was a big fan of the Fleming version of Jeopardy, probably because I was too young to know the answers at the time, and I vaguely remember Who, What or Where. I liked Split Second, but mainly because of the bonus round where the winner would have a chance to win one of five cars if they picked the right one, with one being eliminated each day they won. If they won for five days they got to pick the car they wanted.

I always liked the Trebek version of Jeopardy, although I don't get to see it as much now because of working. I liked The Challengers when it was on, but it was another one I didn't get to see often because of my work.

 

[cd637299]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

This is a toughie!

I was in school during this time, and I enjoyed "Jeopardy!" & "The 3 W's". BTW it looks as if only one ep of the 3 W's has survived. I have a copy on video of the same ep that is on YouTube.

Both of them gave away similar money amounts; but J! was so frantic, while W's was easygoing, and certainly less questions needed to be answered!

I remember one contestant, Paula Olgren (sp?), who was on both shows, and cleaned up....considering the paltry money amounts. Paula was good at the "auction" feature on the W's, raising her bid on the question to where the other contestant didn't have enough money to outbid, whenever she tied w/ another contestant for the bid on the same "W". (There's no example online, and it isn't easy to explain here.)

I asked my late mom why the money awards on J! (Fleming) were so low...she said something like "Oh, they just wanna show their smarts." The Trebek J! has handled that money issue, albeit only the winner taking home the dough.

As to Split Second, it definitely was furious (see on YT)...but what I hated about it was even *lower* money prizes, and even more than that, the "countdown round" to where a contestant could be far, far behind, but only had to answer one more question than the next highest contestant (in money score), whether he/she was behind by $5 or $300!.........Sure, winning the car was the perk, but if it wasn't won, the average daily take by the winner was about $400.

cd

 

[FRR]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

Good gosh...........neither

 

[bpatrick]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

The reason the prizes were so small was because the networks
had mistakenly believed that the five- and six-figure prizes given
away on scandal-tarred shows like "Twenty-One" and "The $64,000
Question" had contributed to the rigging of "Twenty-One" and the
dubious practice of writing questions to a contestant's strengths
on "Question." True, the big money had to be given away but as
Dan Enright liked to point out, the reason for the rigging was to create
drama: to have contestants respond in dramatic fashion, to create heroes
and villains, that sort of thing. Don't forget, the small-potatoes daytime
"Dotto" was the first show caught for rigging; it, too, was orchestrated
to create winners with ratings potential. There was a problem here: when
CBS imposed a $1000 limit on winnings in 1959 one of the shows that was
canceled because of its big prizes (although free of taint), was Walt Framer's
"The Big Payoff." Notified of the cancellation, Framer asked Frank Stanton,
"How are you going to judge the honesty of a show on the basis of $1000?"
Stanton's response: "That's a good question and I really don't know the answer."
Nevertheless, ABC, CBS, and NBC scheduled only small-stakes games over the
next fourteen years (the period in which "Jeopardy!", the "3Ws," and "Split Second"
all debuted).

Shows with big cash prizes would not re-emerge until "Pyramid," with
its original top prize of $10,000, debuted in 1973.

 

[cd637299]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

^

Hmmmm....I kinda felt that all the shows in this thread were far removed from the scandal days....after all, even the original "The Price Is Right" (Cullen) still had big prizes. As to cash, you may have a point there. I've seen "Video Village," just out from the scandals...cash "prizes" on the first block of $5/10/15!

My favorite show as a kid was the original "Concentration," of which of course Jack Barry had to let go to have NBC take control. One of the features I saw during the early 60s was the "Cash Wheel" where one could win from $5 to $3,000. (I saw somebody get the $5, IIRC.)

As time went on for J!, you'd think the money amounts would increase over time.

BTW "The 3 Ws" was revived by Ron Greenberg as "The Challengers" in 1990-91, with big money (not quite in the J! Trebek range), and an emphasis on current events; production was rushed to the syndicated affiliates. (It even announced the date at the start of the show.) But IMO, if "the 3 Ws" was revived, it woulda been fine with me.

cd

 

[Laura151]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

I liked both of them. My uncle, John Daly, was on the "Who, What or Where" game, and I loved watching him.

 

[Charles1]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

Confessions of a geek: In 1966, I feigned a stomach ache at school so I could come home and watch Rob and Laura and the rest of the Petrie family at 10:30, then Jeopardy at 11:00 a.m. Oh, did I mention that I was in the 1st grade?!!!

I was a Jeopardy! fan 45 years ago, and still am now.

 

[Tim L]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

I liked them both about equally..

Note:The Game Show Forums has had original "Concentration" Producer Norman Blumenthal as a member over the last several months..He has kindly answered any questions the members have there about Concentration, the set, how the game was played, etc..Fascinating stuff..

http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21303

 

[cd637299]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

I liked them both about equally..

Note:The Game Show Forums has had original "Concentration" Producer Norman Blumenthal as a member over the last several months..He has kindly answered any questions the members have there about Concentration, the set, how the game was played, etc..Fascinating stuff..

http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21303

That's wonderful! I had always wanted to contact him....I don't care to join more forums, tho'.

cd

 

[Mike Stroud]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

Oh, Lord, bp, you asked about the most perfect question I can imagine on this forum (HAHA). I was a tyke when both Jeopardy! and 3Ws were running on the Peacock channel. Of course, I remember mostly the mannerisms of Art Fleming and Art James, particularly their gentlemanly, courteous approach to contestants, and the set designs more than anything else, as I was far too young to understand the gameplay (I think my fave show during the 1972-75 period was Electric Company, IIRC.). Still, getting the chance to see clips on YouTube has in fact convinced me that, yes, Virginia, there was a golden age on daytime television 40 years ago. The shows then were decent, civil, polite, and honored people's intelligence, regardless of whether the viewer was a housewife, a retiree, or a college student (Phil Donahue was only just getting started).

My preference? I would take J! in a heartbeat. From the full episode of 3Ws that I saw, the pace was considerably slower, and given the rules restricting a contestant's wager, there seemed to be few if any possibilities for break-ahead scoring like Daily Doubles provide. Art James was solid, though, and if it hadn't been for Split Second, that show might well be better remembered today. I clearly prefer Split Second in a comparison with 3Ws; as fast paced as TV got back then, a brilliant proportional scoring system, and oftentimes a dramatic finish in the "Countdown Round." I could perceive, however, as another poster did, that sometimes things got a little ahead of Tom Kennedy's pacing, but I imagine a lot of other hosts would have done a lot worse (it would be great to see a list of who auditioned as host). Also, the bonus game, of course, could have been based on something other than luck, but, back in the early 1970s, prizes were starting to take center stage once again, and I find myself scratching my head thinking of any way the main part of the game could have been modified for a solo bonus round or something. Of course, CBS' warhorse soap Search for Tomorrow was the ratings leader at 12:30/11:30, due to its long tenure, but 3Ws and Split was a real choice, something we don't have even in this day of 1000 channels.

Back to Jeopardy!, one thing that sealed its doom on NBC, aside from the ambitions of daytime head Lin Bolen, was packager Merv Griffin's intransigent refusal to tinker with anything: the set, a different host, and most importantly, the cash values. Even though $10-50 in the first round and $20-100 in Double Jeopardy! were anything but small potatoes at the time of its launch in 1964, by 1975, with games like Pyramid, Price is Right, and the like shelling out upwards of $5,000-10,000 each day, Jeopardy! at the time of its cancellation was probably daytime's lowest-paying game, with contestants averaging $500-800 per win. Inflation fueled the new rush in the Seventies toward bigger prizes more than anything; Split and 3Ws didn't offer much more than that, either. The only game I can think of that paid lower than that was the Canadian-produced syndicated Beat the Clock (hosted by Jack Narz and later Gene Wood).

Here's a bad pun for you: had James and Fleming eventually gotten together as packagers of game shows on their own, a good name for their company would have been "The Fine Arts." Make of that what you will!

 

[bpatrick]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

Mark Goodson once said that "Beat The Clock" "came back
to haunt [him] many times," and I doubt if he was going to
put any more money than he had to into the Narz-Wood version;
it was taped in Montreal to save on production costs, and Goodson
even refused to give Narz a raise to help offset the costs of plane
tickets back and forth between LA and Montreal. I had friends who
thought it laughable that the show's top prize in the early '70s was
only $200.

CBS eventually raised its maximum contestants' winnings limit to
$25,000, even though Michael Larson got the full $110,237 he won
on "Press Your Luck" (but was not allowed to return as champion).
Eventually, the limit was eliminated; GSN is currently showing reruns
of Drew Carey's "Power Of 10" with a top prize of $10 million.

A couple of other shows were revived as a result of the success of
reruns of the network version: "The Joker's Wild" was rerun in LA
after CBS canceled it, and it did well enough for new syndicated episodes
to be produced beginning in 1977. "Gambit" was rerun in New York, Atlanta,
and Louisville, and maybe one or two other markets; it was revived in 1980
on NBC as "Las Vegas Gambit," with Wink Martindale still hosting.

Also, re "Split Second": Monty Hall hosted a syndicated revival in 1987
(the show was a Stefan Hatos-Monty Hall production), and he once said
about the ABC version's in-studio producer Bob Synes that he was so
hairsplitting on answers that if a contestant said "Maria Antoinette" instead
of "Marie Antoinette" he called it wrong. Hall acted as judge on the syndicated
version and would call an answer correct if the contestant was close enough.
But doesn't "Jeopardy!" call a contestant wrong even if they're just a wee bit off?

And while I'm on my soapbox, the other night there was a "Final Jeopardy!" about
Trafalgar Square. One contestant abbreviated "Square" to "sq" and was counted
right. Another wrote what appeared (to me, at least) to be "sq" (even Trebek seemed
to think that's what she'd written even though the "q" was very tiny); the judges said
it wasn't a "q" and called her response wrong. I think she should be given the benefit
of the doubt and allowed to play again.

 

[Bob1370]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

"Back to Jeopardy!, one thing that sealed its doom on NBC, aside from the ambitions of daytime head Lin Bolen, was packager Merv Griffin's intransigent refusal to tinker with anything: the set, a different host, and most importantly, the cash values."

Ironically, when Griffin brought Jeopardy! back for its current highly successful prime time syndication run, he decided to tinker with everything, except (initially) the host. Jeopardy! had gotten a brief revival run in both daytime and summer network prime time in 1978-79, with Art Fleming still hosting, and when Griffin concluded that there was a new market for the show in syndication for the 1984-85 season, he wanted Fleming to host it again. But Fleming had tired of the grind of national TV, so he and his wife moved to St. Louis when he took a job hosting a local evening show on CBS-owned KMOX right after the 1979 run. He liked the pace of life in the Midwest, and turned down Griffin's offer to make a comeback with the Jeopardy! revival (he reportedly disagreed with some of the rules contemplated, especially the lack of cash payments to the runners-up, though not the higher prize amounts for the winners)...and told people he never regretted his decision to stay in St. Louis. He stayed at KMOX from 1979 until he retired from broadcasting in 1992, a few years before his passing in 1995.

Merv next turned to Alex Trebek to host, and initially produce, the revival of Jeopardy!, and the rest is TV history. Undoubtedly the show would have succeeded as well with the familiar and well-liked Art Fleming as host during its first decade in syndication...and woukld have had a slightly different, faster pacing as well.

 

[Tim from Springfield IL]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

Ironically, when Griffin brought Jeopardy! back for its current highly successful prime time syndication run, he decided to tinker with everything, except (initially) the host. Jeopardy! had gotten a brief revival run in both daytime and summer network prime time in 1978-79, with Art Fleming still hosting, and when Griffin concluded that there was a new market for the show in syndication for the 1984-85 season, he wanted Fleming to host it again. But Fleming had tired of the grind of national TV, so he and his wife moved to St. Louis when he took a job hosting a local evening show on CBS-owned KMOX right after the 1979 run. He liked the pace of life in the Midwest, and turned down Griffin's offer to make a comeback with the Jeopardy! revival (he reportedly disagreed with some of the rules contemplated, especially the lack of cash payments to the runners-up, though not the higher prize amounts for the winners)...and told people he never regretted his decision to stay in St. Louis. He stayed at KMOX from 1979 until he retired from broadcasting in 1992, a few years before his passing in 1995.

Alas, Fleming would return for one more stint as "Jeopardy" host after 1979--that is in Weird Al Yankovic's "I Lost on Jeopardy" video from 1984--which ironically came out right before J! returned under Trebek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvUZijEuNDQ&ob=av2e

 

[anotherguyTN]

Re: Which did (do) you prefer: "Jeopardy!" or "Who, What Or Where"?

As much as I prefer the Trebek version of Jeopardy, I think that using Art Fleming and especially Don Pardo was the best choice for Weird Al's video. I love the part where Pardo goes through the list of what Weird Al didn't win and ends with "You're a complete loser!!!" ;D