Which station(s) in your market will go off the air first?

[davideduardo]

Who's Frieda Hannock?

She was a commissioner on the Federal Communications Commission from 1948 to 1955. Appointed by President Harry S. Truman, she was the first female FCC commissioner. Hennock is credited with the agency's decision to set aside permanent channel assignments for educational stations. This farsighted move ensured the future of public broadcasting in the United States. (Wikipedia)

 

[Radio-X]

We already have two owned by Dell's OTA Broadcasting (it has been said that they are spectrum speculators)...one of which will definitely be a goner. That one has the highest minimum bid out of any Seattle market stations even though its on the fringe of the market.

KVOS in Bellingham, WA has the disadvantage of having a good signal in a foreign country (Vancouver/Victoria, B.C.) that is no longer sellable there due to Canadian regulations and the changing media landscape. They have the advantage of being a 'must carry' in the Seattle/Tacoma market (70 air miles away), even though their OTA signal is iffy at best until you are well north of town. Tried to move closer to put a good signal into Seattle while keeping Bellingham as their COL...FCC said "no thanks". So, the station has been gutted and left on the air to keep the license active. Selling the spectrum for Vancouver Metro, southern Vancouver Island, and the northern Seattle suburbs will give them a MASSIVE paycheck --more than if a Seattle station sold.

The other station, KFFV is actually in Seattle. They have a Me-TV subchannel (shared with KVOS as their primary) and several foreign broadcasters on the other subs. Less money to be had by taking it off than KVOS, but still a pretty penny to be had I'm sure.

Another station that may fall off would be KBTC and their full-power SW Washington repeater, KCKA. Owned by a state-supported technical college near Tacoma. Long-time secondary PBS station here...would not be the least bit surprised if they end up as a subchannel of our primary PBS station, KCTS. Around here, I think there is certainly the market for two PBS stations even if they share the same channel.

Radio-X

 

[K.M. Richards]

Hennock is credited with the agency's decision to set aside permanent channel assignments for educational stations.

Thanks for looking it up, David. I was (a) in a hurry and (b) thought others might look it up rather than just scratching their heads in puzzlement.

My not looking it up resulted in my misspelling the late Mrs. Hennock's last name. Thanks for correcting same.

 

[davideduardo]

Thanks for looking it up, David. I was (a) in a hurry and (b) thought others might look it up rather than just scratching their heads in puzzlement.

My not looking it up resulted in my misspelling the late Mrs. Hennock's last name. Thanks for correcting same.

Google is our friend!

 

[ShawnHill1]

If we talking about something that could be more plausible, I could see the Fox-owned MyTV stations go off-the-air sooner. Specifically, those stations are turn-in their licenses, and continue to broadcast on a subchannel of their Fox sister station...I mean, what purpose do those stations still serve in 2015? I can't speak for every market that's home to a Fox/MyTV duopoly, but the MyTV station at least here in Los Angeles serves as a dumping ground for whatever shows the Fox station doesn't have room for, and serves occasionally as an overflow station for the company's two regional sports networks. Beyond that, and pretty much serving as the designated outlet for the subchannel networks that Fox has a hand in, KCOP doesn't exactly offer anything unique or something that stands out amongst the other stations in the market.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Beyond that, and pretty much serving as the designated outlet for the subchannel networks that Fox has a hand in, KCOP doesn't exactly offer anything unique or something that stands out amongst the other stations in the market.

Funny you should say that, Shawn, because between Buzzr on 13.2, H&I on 13.4, and the occasional movie on 13.3, my TiVo seems to record more programming from KCOP than any other station in the market right now.

In fact, I worry that repacking will force some diginets off the air, especially those who don't lease their channels (*coughcough*religion*coughcough*). I've come to like my present selection of channels better than the ones I used to get on DirecTV.

 

[joebtsflk1]

test

 

[landtuna]

In fact, I worry that repacking will force some diginets off the air, especially those who don't lease their channels (*coughcough*religion*coughcough*). I've come to like my present selection of channels better than the ones I used to get on DirecTV.

Why do you say that about the diginets? And why would the religious stations be affected first and foremost (not that it would bother me in the least).

I fully agree with your last sentence. I have found a lot of interesting programs on the diginets recently than I ever watched on cable (or the primary channels for that matter).

 

[joebtsflk1]

Click on the map above and decide for yourself which of the Iowa Public Television outlets you'd take dark for auction. All are UHF except for the original two outlets, KDIN-11 Des Moines and KIIN-12 Iowa City. OK, since most of you really could care less about the future of public TV in Iowa, I'll just make my choices. (or not)

There's a lot of overlap in eastern Iowa between KIIN Iowa City, KRIN Waterloo and KQIN Davenport. The UHFs of Waterloo and Davenport would likely be worth more than VHF Iowa City. But, Waterloo and Davenport cover their home markets better than the "two market" signal of Iowa City. That would make KIIN Iowa City the choice to go dark. But given most people DON'T use OTA, having all stations come from the same direction in a market may not be all that important. That would point to a lot bigger payday by spinning off the U's.

In western Iowa, there is 100% overlap between KBIN Council Bluffs and KHIN Red Oak, which was by design in the OTA world as Council Bluffs sits in a rather deep valley across from Omaha, and couldn't receive a good signal from Red Oak in the east. But in southwest Iowa, all other OTA TV comes from Omaha. KHIN Red Oak looks like the more clear cut choice. The areas losing coverage could be added back post-auction with class As and an upgraded KBIN from one of the Omaha area towers.

On the commercial side, KWKB-20 Iowa City has a 1500' tower within a mile of the 1500' tower of KIIN. And like KIIN, KWKB was envisioned to be the WB and later CW outlet for both Cedar Rapids-Waterloo and Davenport-Quad Cities. Today, the Quad Cities has its own CW affiliate, and the CW affiliation could easily move to a sub-channel of one of the Cedar Rapids-Waterloo stations. KWKB looks like an obvious choice to take the dark payday.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Why do you say that about the diginets? And why would the religious stations be affected first and foremost (not that it would bother me in the least).

I didn't phrase that very well, did I ...

What I meant to say was that if it becomes too technically complicated to channel share on a transmitter and provide the diginets, they are likely to be the first services dropped, since in the majority of situations they are not bringing in revenue (at best, they are running bonus spots for clients who advertise on the primary channel), but that the religious networks are undoubtedly leasing their subchannels, which is pure revenue for just plugging a satellite feed in.

 

[landtuna]

What I meant to say was that if it becomes too technically complicated to channel share on a transmitter and provide the diginets, they are likely to be the first services dropped, since in the majority of situations they are not bringing in revenue (at best, they are running bonus spots for clients who advertise on the primary channel), but that the religious networks are undoubtedly leasing their subchannels, which is pure revenue for just plugging a satellite feed in.

I've noticed one thing about the subs and that is that their advertisers are either scams or very close to it. Lots of diet pills and health aids for the stiff of joint. Financial services but not the quality Wall Street version, rather junk house buy-backs, reverse mortgages and phony life insurance/death benefit policies. Here in Phoenix the biggest advertiser's are the two major cable providers - Cox and the phone company (who also advertise heavily on primary channels as well). Add cooking implements and recipe books and all manner of medical hardware for the elderly and you've got your marketeers.

I am assuming these dirt bag ads are the TV equivalent of radio's dollar-a-hollar but the number of them must mean someone is making something as the programming is sure to be free or very close to it. I've seen more 1950's post-WWII documentaries (such as Dwight Eisenhower's Crusade series) in the past month that at any time since we got our first TV in 1954.

 

[Carmine5]

Funny you should say that, Shawn, because between Buzzr on 13.2, H&I on 13.4, and the occasional movie on 13.3, my TiVo seems to record more programming from KCOP than any other station in the market right now.

In fact, I worry that repacking will force some diginets off the air, especially those who don't lease their channels (*coughcough*religion*coughcough*). I've come to like my present selection of channels better than the ones I used to get on DirecTV.

With ATSC 3.0 and its use of COFDM (instead of 8VSB) you could have 2nd adjacent (and possibly even 1st adjacent) channels broadcasting in the same market. COFDM eliminates the need for a lot of guard band space between channels. Plus 3.0 offers 26.4 Mb/s and uses H.264 and H.265 compression so a lot more channels can be packed into that data stream. You could have 6-720p channels or 1-4K, 1-720p and 1-SD channel on a single 6 MHz channel.

 

[K.M. Richards]

With ATSC 3.0 and its use of COFDM (instead of 8VSB) you could have 2nd adjacent (and possibly even 1st adjacent) channels broadcasting in the same market.

Ummm, we already have that here in Los Angeles.

KCET on 28, KFTR on 29.
KTLA on 31, KDOC on 32, KTBN on 33, KMEX on 34, KRCA on 35, KNBC on 36.
KPXN on 38, KVEA on 39.
KLCS on 41, KWHY on 42, KCBS on 43.
KAZA on 47, KOCE on 48, KJLA on 49.
KXLA on 51.

All from the same tower farm on Mount Wilson.

So I don't see what changes, other than stations that might have to share a transmitter, with the bandwidth used for that on the single shared channel having to come from somewhere ...

 

[KML0224]

In Hartford/New Haven, adjacent channels happen twice, if counting public stations:

WEDN-TV (PBS) channel 53 Norwich...uses channel 9
WTNH-TV (ABC) channel 8 New Haven...uses channel 10
WEDH-TV (PBS) channel 24 Hartford...uses channel 45
WUVN-TV (UNI) channel 18 Hartford...uses channel 46

And, since a portion of this market can pick up Springfield, MA to the immediate north...

WWLP-TV (NBC) channel 22 Springfield, MA...uses channel 11

 

[Mr Tony]

With ATSC 3.0 and its use of COFDM (instead of 8VSB) you could have 2nd adjacent (and possibly even 1st adjacent) channels broadcasting in the same market.

We have a few of them in Minneapolis
16 (EWTN) and 17 (Univision)....both LP's
22 (WUCW PSIP 23-1) and 23 (KTCI PSIP 2-3)

And then the big one
31 Daystar 62-1) LP
32 WCCO CBS (4-1)
33 3ABN LP
34 KTCA PBS (2-1)
35 KSTP ABC (5-1)

as long as they are within X amount of miles (maybe 10) you can do it. The Full power ones are in Shoreview (NE of MInneapolis) where the LP's are on the IDS building in downtown Mpls

 

[vchimpanzee]

If we talking about something that could be more plausible, I could see the Fox-owned MyTV stations go off-the-air sooner. Specifically, those stations are turn-in their licenses, and continue to broadcast on a subchannel of their Fox sister station...I mean, what purpose do those stations still serve in 2015? I can't speak for every market that's home to a Fox/MyTV duopoly, but the MyTV station at least here in Los Angeles serves as a dumping ground for whatever shows the Fox station doesn't have room for, and serves occasionally as an overflow station for the company's two regional sports networks. Beyond that, and pretty much serving as the designated outlet for the subchannel networks that Fox has a hand in, KCOP doesn't exactly offer anything unique or something that stands out amongst the other stations in the market.

Charlotte has this situation, but the MyTV affiliate isn't a dumping ground. I do know both stations show a lot of the same movies. Other than that, I haven't heard a word about what might happen.

 

[Carmine5]

Co-siting is a solution that is currently being used to pack channels closer together. However, co-siting under ATSC 1.0 brings with it its own set of interference issues that make it harder for current DTV tuners to overcome. Since OFDM (or COFDM) uses a different method of transmission from 8VSB and is more spectrally efficient and since 3.0 has a more robust FEC, stations can be packed close together without interference artifacts and without co-siting. Plus, with OFDM SFNs can be employed allowing a station to place a small network of transmitters throughout its contour, either eliminating the need for one high power transmitter site or as fill in for areas where the signal may be too weak due to terrain or other obstructions. Plus, OFDM works equally well with VHF and UHF. So moving stations back to VHF (even low VHF) will not be the disaster that it might be under the current ATSC standard. While we don't know how many channels will eventually be eliminated in the incentive auction, it is possible that every station could have a unique channel under 3.0--even in a congested area like Los Angeles.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/0002/dtv-interference-repacking-and-the-fcc/274626
http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/74105/ofdm-seen-key-to-blanket-ota-coverage?ref=search

 

[Ccook55]

Adjacents in Atlanta:

19 - WGCL (46.1)
20 - WPCH (17)
21 - WPBA (30)
24 - WGTA (32.1)
25 - WATL (36.1)
26 - WTBS-LD (26.1)
27 - WAGA (5.1)
40 - WIRE-CD (40.1)
41 - WATC (57.1)
43 - WUPA (69.1)
44 - WHSG (63.1)
47 - WKTB-LD (47.1, repeated on WPXA RF 31.9)
48 - WUVG (34.1)

WPCH and WPBA are the only full-power stations in Atlanta that do not have subcarriers. One of those could be ripe for selling off, and I'd hazard a guess it would be WPBA, which is one of two PBS stations in the market (WGTV/8 the other). Tegna could also sell off WATL and move its My Network TV programming to the subs of either WAGA or sister station WXIA (RF 10 / virtual 11).