Heard that Saga bought WHIZ. (1) Any truth to this one? (2) What would they do with another rimshot? Talk among yourselves!
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WHIZ to Saga?
- Thread starter Bill Harmonic
- Start date
K
kentuckymedia
Guest
I think ive heard that about a time or two. Saga will wind up with the signal most likely, this will allow them to put on a format that can dazzle the advertisers and fit nicely on their spreadsheets.
WNCI has always been a major contendor in Licking and Fairfield counties. However does 102.5 Bob FM stand a chance? Maybe B102.5 - The Biggest Hits of the 70's and 80's?
WNCI has always been a major contendor in Licking and Fairfield counties. However does 102.5 Bob FM stand a chance? Maybe B102.5 - The Biggest Hits of the 70's and 80's?
I personally will be surprised if Ed buys yet another rimshot, unless it has a very reasonable price tag, especially to use the stick as a simulcast partner. Methinks he has been burned one too many times in Columbus.
As for filling in ODB's weakness, the logical choice is 107.1. WHIZ is too far east, even as a move-in. Unless they are planning to lay waste to WCLT. Of course, that would involve being effective as a suburban player, something Saga has been unwilling and/or unable to do with their existing rimshot properties.
I have always maintained that for WODB to be successful as a Columbus rimshot (let's call that a 3 share or better), it had better be far and away number one in Delaware County. It is not, and it never has been. In its best performances, it has been 3rd or 4th behind WNCI, WCOL and WTVN. To be #1 in Delaware, you must be Delaware-centric. That requires selling direct in Delaware and Powell, maybe even moving the station and sales force to downtown Delaware or Polaris. That requires not doing remotes in areas where you can't hear the station, etc etc. You can't be a 98 pound linebacker, yet Saga keeps trying to play WODB as a Columbus station. Not possible. That's what living in denial will do to you.
As for filling in ODB's weakness, the logical choice is 107.1. WHIZ is too far east, even as a move-in. Unless they are planning to lay waste to WCLT. Of course, that would involve being effective as a suburban player, something Saga has been unwilling and/or unable to do with their existing rimshot properties.
I have always maintained that for WODB to be successful as a Columbus rimshot (let's call that a 3 share or better), it had better be far and away number one in Delaware County. It is not, and it never has been. In its best performances, it has been 3rd or 4th behind WNCI, WCOL and WTVN. To be #1 in Delaware, you must be Delaware-centric. That requires selling direct in Delaware and Powell, maybe even moving the station and sales force to downtown Delaware or Polaris. That requires not doing remotes in areas where you can't hear the station, etc etc. You can't be a 98 pound linebacker, yet Saga keeps trying to play WODB as a Columbus station. Not possible. That's what living in denial will do to you.
K
kentuckymedia
Guest
I agree...Saga has really tried to make WODB something it was never designed to do. However, this doesnt mean that things could change down the road.
Ed just wants some company for his lonely WSNY. WJZA and WJZK do well, but they are a very niche format. So you can only expect so much out of those two signals.
If Ed either dropped WODB into someones hands who can turn it into a Delaware Station, or sold it to Radio One to simulcast WCKX it could do better.
WHIZ has potential. My first thought would be to swap and sell with WCLT 100.3. Turn that into a more Columbus Centric station with 102.5 serving Newark, Zanesville and Lancaster.
The other two options that lay on the table are NABCO or the friendly folks at Wilks, but either group really arent in expansion mode for Columbus. People have said Salem a time or two, but with the pairing down of properties on their plate, Columbus is probably last on their list.
Ed just wants some company for his lonely WSNY. WJZA and WJZK do well, but they are a very niche format. So you can only expect so much out of those two signals.
If Ed either dropped WODB into someones hands who can turn it into a Delaware Station, or sold it to Radio One to simulcast WCKX it could do better.
WHIZ has potential. My first thought would be to swap and sell with WCLT 100.3. Turn that into a more Columbus Centric station with 102.5 serving Newark, Zanesville and Lancaster.
The other two options that lay on the table are NABCO or the friendly folks at Wilks, but either group really arent in expansion mode for Columbus. People have said Salem a time or two, but with the pairing down of properties on their plate, Columbus is probably last on their list.
Bill Harmonic said:Heard that Saga bought WHIZ. (1) Any truth to this one? (2) What would they do with another rimshot? Talk among yourselves!
I think you might be dismissing the signal as a "rimshot" a little quicker than I would, regardless of who gets it, especially since the cp is non directional. The signal/antenna can be "optimized to a favorable direction, and at this point, it's a safe bet it's gonna be NW.
a better question...what is Wilks going to do about 102.3 (if that is where their translator is, don't know for sure)...since technically, it should disappear when 102.5 moves in
K
kentuckymedia
Guest
I heard at one point Vernon Baldwin was happy with building a new LP Translator at 102.3 in Mount Sterling and carrying K-Love Programming on it. How this would help Wilks, I dont have a clue....
Your right...102.5 wont have a full market signal, but neither does WCKX and it beats the 175,000 watt gorilla.
Your right...102.5 wont have a full market signal, but neither does WCKX and it beats the 175,000 watt gorilla.
kentuckymedia said:Your right...102.5 wont have a full market signal, but neither does WCKX and it beats the 175,000 watt gorilla.
With MUCH better stick placement than 102.5 will have.
It's all about location, location and location. Columbus has more rimshots than most markets but the location of WCKX (1.9kw), WXMG (2.6kw) and WBWR (2.4kw) right in the middle, or very close to the middle of the city, is what makes them (or should make them) players. Everyone else is pretty much outside the outerbelt, if they are that close. The only one of the three above that is not taking advantage of it's "location" is WBWR. Their "success", or lack of, is because of little care and feeding (not important on the CC food chain) along with a product that is not reaching the potential of the signal.
Interesting insights and perspectives on Saga Columbus and 107.9 here -- especially those from the former PD. I notice 107.9 has now backed off the 80's almost completely, while most of the other changes made earlier this year remain in place. I wonder if this was strictly fine-tuning, or whether there might have been a cluster-driven motivation? E.g., might we see WSNY lean heavier and deeper into 80's pop-rock after Santa exits?
Re the Brew failing to meet its potential...At least I finally figured out what their current format is: BAD Rock. That stands for "Broad on Alternate Days." On one day it's all AC-DC, Metallica and hair bands. The next day they also play Sheryl Crow, early Yes, Nickelback, Modern English, Gary Wright, Sugar Ray and Men at Work. Then the next day those "broadeners" get the day off, only to reappear a day later. It's BAD rock, only on the Brew.
102.5's new coverage compliments 107.9 quite well... filling in the holes in Fairfield and Pickaway counties
There are no rimshots, repeat, NO rimshots that can defeat the RF field in downtown Columbus...even the 50kw Ashville move-in over on TVN's site. When you drive into the downtown area, the front end of every radio with protective circuitry lowers its sensitivity to protect itself against the RF onslaught from the BNS tower, the NCI rooftop and the Channel 6 tower. And, if you are further hampered with a cheap radio and/or a poor antenna, or in a car with a poorly designed window antenna, you are "comprehensively screwed" as Mark Levin might say. There was about a one mile stretch of 670 around the downtown tower farm where I could not receive ANY signal from WODB while driving a Pacifica wagon. White noise. Nothing. Combine that with the terrain surrounding the two river valleys, and Franklin County becomes quite problematic for anyone not operating from the downtown area.
Inventor989 said:There are no rimshots, repeat, NO rimshots that can defeat the RF field in downtown Columbus...even the 50kw Ashville move-in over on TVN's site. When you drive into the downtown area, the front end of every radio with protective circuitry lowers its sensitivity to protect itself against the RF onslaught from the BNS tower, the NCI rooftop and the Channel 6 tower. And, if you are further hampered with a cheap radio and/or a poor antenna, or in a car with a poorly designed window antenna, you are "comprehensively screwed" as Mark Levin might say. There was about a one mile stretch of 670 around the downtown tower farm where I could not receive ANY signal from WODB while driving a Pacifica wagon. White noise. Nothing. Combine that with the terrain surrounding the two river valleys, and Franklin County becomes quite problematic for anyone not operating from the downtown area.
Since I have to agree with you at some point here, and you and I both are very aware of the BNS tower crap, why hasn't some move been made to force all of the stations on the BNS tower to use better filters, ie : filter each other from each other, rather than simply to use the combiner filters. Additionally, force NCI, and all other offenders to get their noise level down to required levels...(which seems like -70 or so, It's been a while since I had to do this, but it seems the noise floor is -68 or better)...
then a whole lot of stations would be better off
why hasn't some move been made to force all of the stations on the BNS tower to use better filters, ie : filter each other from each other, rather than simply to use the combiner filters. Additionally, force NCI, and all other offenders to get their noise level down to required levels...(which seems like -70 or so, It's been a while since I had to do this, but it seems the noise floor is -68 or better)...
Uhh...all these stations are using the required harmonic and bandpass filters to achieve the 80+ dB filtering required by the FCC.
The problem is not with the stations themselves. They are all individually operating in compliance with the spurious and harmonic emissions rules.
The problems arise in the receiver itself. There is a phenomenon called RITOIE. This stands for Receiver Induced Third Order Intermodulation Effect. Basically, this means that strong signals mix together (both adding and subtracting in frequency) inside your radio and create unwanted side effects.
Here is a real world example- When a strong 92.3 MHZ signal mixes with the 10.7 MHZ Intermediate Frequency that your radio creates internally, it creates sum and difference frequency 10.7 MHZ above and below 92.3 MHZ. Below- no problem since it falls out of the FM Band. Above- 103.0 wiping out 102.9 and 103.1 entirely.
Note that these phenomenon are RECEIVER INDUCED. Very difficult to prove and impossible to fix.
I'd be very careful about making suggestions that stations are not in compliance with the FCC regs.
Uhh...all these stations are using the required harmonic and bandpass filters to achieve the 80+ dB filtering required by the FCC.
The problem is not with the stations themselves. They are all individually operating in compliance with the spurious and harmonic emissions rules.
The problems arise in the receiver itself. There is a phenomenon called RITOIE. This stands for Receiver Induced Third Order Intermodulation Effect. Basically, this means that strong signals mix together (both adding and subtracting in frequency) inside your radio and create unwanted side effects.
Here is a real world example- When a strong 92.3 MHZ signal mixes with the 10.7 MHZ Intermediate Frequency that your radio creates internally, it creates sum and difference frequency 10.7 MHZ above and below 92.3 MHZ. Below- no problem since it falls out of the FM Band. Above- 103.0 wiping out 102.9 and 103.1 entirely.
Note that these phenomenon are RECEIVER INDUCED. Very difficult to prove and impossible to fix.
I'd be very careful about making suggestions that stations are not in compliance with the FCC regs.
markbohach said:why hasn't some move been made to force all of the stations on the BNS tower to use better filters, ie : filter each other from each other, rather than simply to use the combiner filters. Additionally, force NCI, and all other offenders to get their noise level down to required levels...(which seems like -70 or so, It's been a while since I had to do this, but it seems the noise floor is -68 or better)...
Uhh...all these stations are using the required harmonic and bandpass filters to achieve the 80+ dB filtering required by the FCC.
Mark, lets take this issue apart.
The problem is not with the stations themselves. They are all individually operating in compliance with the spurious and harmonic emissions rules.
Probably in the strictest sense, correct. each station was probably designed with the proper filters when they were built, and the individual station to station relationships in a particular antenna probably remain the same. One can only wonder when other stations were added, if those antennas were taken well into consideration. Some of the smaller facilites probably could have used bigger front end filters, to at least attempt to keep some of the larger stations out. Also towers tend to have a whole lot of stuff added to them and proper studies are rarely done. Finally, offsite stations are rarely taken into consideration, especially with FM.
I don't want to start a fight. My emotions run fairly low on this, and frankly, I don't much care. That site seems to be an extreme example of noise and garbage, and I personally believe that combined sites should be held to a higher standard, and I don't see any reason the companies involved would suffer a hardship if there was stricter compliance.
The problems arise in the receiver itself. There is a phenomenon called RITOIE. This stands for Receiver Induced Third Order Intermodulation Effect. Basically, this means that strong signals mix together (both adding and subtracting in frequency) inside your radio and create unwanted side effects.
Here is a real world example- When a strong 92.3 MHZ signal mixes with the 10.7 MHZ Intermediate Frequency that your radio creates internally, it creates sum and difference frequency 10.7 MHZ above and below 92.3 MHZ. Below- no problem since it falls out of the FM Band. Above- 103.0 wiping out 102.9 and 103.1 entirely.
Note that these phenomenon are RECEIVER INDUCED. Very difficult to prove and impossible to fix.
familiar with this, but also familiar with cases where specific unrelated stations, which should not have cause interference did, and with the proper filters, the problem was eliminated. (this example wasn't a large combined site, though, so the problem was easier to find) so I will stop short of impossible.
I'd be very careful about making suggestions that stations are not in compliance with the FCC regs.
I don't see where I have done that, although after re-reading my post, I did say "Additionally, force NCI, and all other offenders to get their noise level down to required levels". Offenders is too strong a word, since I didn't measure them, nor do I intend to, so thanks for pointing that out. At this point, there are no "offenders", how about I personally believe there are steps that should be taken that could improve this situation.
K
kentuckymedia
Guest
Me just thinking out loud here...
Saga and Radio One do a nice little deal in the sheets per say. Saga walks away with 102.5 WODB and then sells 107.9 to Radio One where it becomes Power 107.5/9
Saga would have a much better Columbus signal with 102.5 and covers the area quite well. Radio One would love to take a bite out of Delaware County and their suburbia rhythmic listening population that could virtually screw with WNCI's Delaware County Numbers.
Saga and Radio One do a nice little deal in the sheets per say. Saga walks away with 102.5 WODB and then sells 107.9 to Radio One where it becomes Power 107.5/9
Saga would have a much better Columbus signal with 102.5 and covers the area quite well. Radio One would love to take a bite out of Delaware County and their suburbia rhythmic listening population that could virtually screw with WNCI's Delaware County Numbers.
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